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Thread: Taxiway Blocked?

  1. #41
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob turner View Post
    …...Checklists! I invented them for a J3. Three items on the walkaround, one on the after start, one after takeoff, and CIGAR TIPS and GMS for the important ones. ….
    I know CIGAR (and GUMP), but can't remember what TIPS stands for, and never heard of GMS.
    Please (attempt to) edjucate me.

    As far as inconsiderate people go,
    whether it's about airplanes or snow, some people just have to be ass holes--
    I guess it's just their nature.
    And unfortunately everyone else's cross to bear.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  2. #42

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    TIPS - trim, instrument double check (oil temp/press), prop, seatbelts.
    GMS - no U or P in a J3. I teach GUMPS, but for the checkride we need something simpler. It is really GS on a J3.

    The one I find useful: "After Takeoff Checklist - rpm - CHECK". That one is useful! Engine health and carb heat are both double-checked. I owe the FAA at least that.

    I no longer do checkride preps. Not good enough. (I have the controls you have the controls I have the controls? Yuk!). PAVE and IMSAFE? I cannot teach that as something to do just before executing the engine fire/fail checklist.

  3. #43
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    I use the U in GUMPS for parking break on the super cub.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  4. #44
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Bob,

    I think blocking a taxiway MIGHT be an infraction of some obscure FAR. Get a little creative, and next time you talk to the school folks, drop a hint that you’ve been talking to the FSDO ( might have to explain who that is) and quote (at very high velocity) an FAR which specifically prohibits blocking a movement area on an airport. Make it fast, then haul ass before they can gather their wits.

    Let it soak for a few days. Then actually talk to a fed about this deal being a “safety” issue.....like someone may get a wing into a hangar trying to get around these jokers. Explain to said fed (hell, that rymes) that if same happens, you’re explaining to the NTSB investigator how the FAA and airport manager have been encouraging this nonsense forever.

    Make em nervous. Hell if nothing else, they’ll be searching the refs for the next month trying to figure it out.

    meanwhile you’ll be flying.

    Or, excersize the priveledge your Cal. Concealed carry permit suggests. Lotsa opportunities while fueling, for example,for you to inadvertently exhibit that very realistic plastic gun under your t-shirt. “Dirty Bob”.....I like the sound of that.

    MTV
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  5. #45

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    Good one.

    We are proceeding the friendly way, and in the meantime going around these guys as before, usually with success. Some of the instructors are starting to conduct checklist activity to one side, leaving us enough room to pass each other. That's the spirit! The boss, though, is acting like he is off his meds.

    We will surely fix it. The Feds probably have no jurisdiction, since it is what they call "landside".
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  6. #46
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    City of San Diego Airports Division OPERATIONS POLICIES AND PROCEDURES

    CHAPTER 3: AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS
    Article 21. Aircraft Operating on the Ground
    C.
    Parking in taxiway areas is prohibited. Taxiway areas shall be maintained open for taxiing aircraft at all times and no aircraft shall be parked in such taxiway areas left unattended in such a manner as to interfere with the free flow of traffic.

    I think that about covers it.

  7. #47
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    Bob,

    I checked with the household airport land expert about this and here is what I am told:

    If the airport is public and has received 'Grant Assurance' money from the FAA, all leases and such should be public. You should get a copy of the flight school's lease and look under their allowed uses- there could, or should, be some language in the lease about doing business on their lease lot, and their lot should be large enough to do so without blocking others. There is also probably wording that says something to the effect that use of common areas will be done in a manner to not obstruct other users.

    Read their lease, and what they are allowed and not allowed to do. If these actions are in violation- take it to the airport board.

    Also under Grant Assurance number 23; Exclusive Rights, FAA Order 5190.6B, Chapter 8 paragraph 2: Paraphrase- The Airport allowing one user to act in such a manner as to hinder other's use of common airport areas is not allowed.

    FAA Order 5190.6b, Chapter 7.9 Local Rules and Procedures: Sponsors, (management) is obligated to make rules and regulations to keep aircraft safe... The Flight School's operations are not 'safe' in airport world.

    Please look them up and read them over. There is also some procedures for complaints when the airport goes out of the Assurances rules.

    Good Luck!
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  8. #48
    charlie husky's Avatar
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    Excellent! Is an airport with ATC, so AC’s of FAA and FAR’s must be addressed by Airport Operations for ground movement, even in taxi lanes between hangars for federal grants. Sad that grown ass people cannot be courteous to other pilots.
    As stated before, the simplest answer is often the best. FAA definition of taxi lane, taxiway, apron/ramp, tie down areas,etc. drives how the airport operations can allow those areas to be used, and not used, and what their designed purposes are.
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  9. #49
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Toldja there’d be an obscure reg......

    MTV
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  10. #50

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    You did! I am amazed at the amount of knowledge here and the willingness to dig in and help. Thank you, gang. This does put the issue in an entirely different light.
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  11. #51
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    Check out this airline pilot. His hangar to the right.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  12. #52
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    An old Cessna wing on the bed of your truck will solve that.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using SuperCub.Org mobile app
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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  13. #53

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    Showed those two interesting posts to the Lessor management - a really nice guy. He may be spring-loaded to favor the flight school, since he interpreted the regulation as only pertaining to unattended aircraft. That is, so long as you are wandering around in the vicinity of the blocking aircraft all is ok. More to come, I am sure.
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  14. #54
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    A little dog poop accidentally left in a " handy " place goes a long way

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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  15. #55
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    I park my small car (honda crv) next to & tight against my hangar.
    Plenty of room for hi or low wing aircraft to get by,
    even if someone else parks against the opposite hangar also.
    But not all taxi lanes are created equal.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  16. #56
    G44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kase View Post
    Check out this airline pilot. His hangar to the right.

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    So what does "airline pilot" have to do with parking a truck in the way of taxiing airplanes?
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  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by kase View Post
    Check out this airline pilot. His hangar to the right.

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    Pretty sure I know his twin brother.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  18. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by kase View Post
    Check out this airline pilot. His hangar to the right.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I'd guess, the truck is owned by a guy who happens to fly for the commercial carriers, bit sensitive eh?

  19. #59
    kase's Avatar
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    About what.?

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by G44 View Post
    So what does "airline pilot" have to do with parking a truck in the way of taxiing airplanes?
    It's not your guys fault, the DNA just missed a couple decimal points in some areas

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  21. #61
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Because everyone knows that we are all jerks! He is probably counting his money in the hangar with a couple of hot stews.


    Quote Originally Posted by G44 View Post
    So what does "airline pilot" have to do with parking a truck in the way of taxiing airplanes?
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by G44 View Post
    So what does "airline pilot" have to do with parking a truck in the way of taxiing airplanes?
    I'd say most likely that he won't be back in a hour.........
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  23. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by kase View Post
    Check out this airline pilot. His hangar to the right.

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    One would think that after maybe 3-4 clear air holds and a a half-dozen go-around the message might be received.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  24. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by kase View Post
    Check out this airline pilot. His hangar to the right.

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    One would think that after maybe 3-4 clear air holds and a half-dozen go-arounds the message might be received even by one that’s obviously not the sharpest pencil in the box.
    Last edited by OLDCROWE; 04-20-2019 at 02:18 PM.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  25. #65
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G44 View Post
    So what does "airline pilot" have to do with parking a truck in the way of taxiing airplanes?
    If you are an airline pilot I am sure you know the answer to your own question. Even if you don't have the "attitude" I am sure you know some.
    Running joke among my airline pilot friends.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  26. #66
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    There are penis heads in all walks of life. The airline cockpit has it's share. The joke when you make Captain is that you will always know who the a-hole in the left seat will be.


    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    If you are an airline pilot I am sure you know the answer to your own question. Even if you don't have the "attitude" I am sure you know some.
    Running joke among my airline pilot friends.
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"
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  27. #67
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    If it belonged to a mechanic it would be leaking oil on the grass and have bald tires!

    Quote Originally Posted by kase View Post
    Check out this airline pilot. His hangar to the right.

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    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"
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  28. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    Because everyone knows that we are all jerks! He is probably counting his money in the hangar with a couple of hot stews.
    For retired airline pilots, the hot stew would be Dinty Moore

  29. #69

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    Name:  539D2922-6446-42B1-8A27-8BAF70CDC848.jpeg
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    Stolen from another thread.
    He's in the hangar helping the mechanic on his annual.

  30. #70
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    Which one is the mechanic?


    Quote Originally Posted by eskimo77 View Post
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    Stolen from another thread.
    He's in the hangar helping the mechanic on his annual.
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  31. #71
    Ruffair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kase View Post
    Check out this airline pilot. His hangar to the right.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I didn’t think Drew White would ever drive a Ford... ��.
    Damn him....! ��
    "...We're fast enough to get there, But slow enough to see..."
    Fron the song "Barometer Soup". By Jimmy Buffett

  32. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob turner View Post
    Showed those two interesting posts to the Lessor management - a really nice guy. He may be spring-loaded to favor the flight school, since he interpreted the regulation as only pertaining to unattended aircraft. That is, so long as you are wandering around in the vicinity of the blocking aircraft all is ok. More to come, I am sure.
    As I interpret your response, if you and your buddy each placed a plane on the taxiway- one on each side of the flight school area in conversation- and set about doing walk arounds and inspecting the planes, it would not be a problem in the airport management view? So spend sunny Saturday parked blocking in the flight school staying close to the plane but dithering. Seems that one day will get the message across.

    Can not say one group is ok, but others are not!!
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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  33. #73

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    I used to be down the taxi way from a goober who would pull out of the hanger then taking his time would get it perfectly aligned on the taxiway center stripe, then call the fuel truck...
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  34. #74

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    We have them too. Fortunately they don't fly all that often, and only block a portion of one alley. This school blocks an alley that services 50 or more hangars, including jets and turboprops. Sooner or later a wealthy guy in a Citation will get blocked, and we will have an instant fix.

    One of the local blockers ought to know better - he was the chief pilot for a fleet of jets. Now in his autumn years he teaches in a 172. Takes his students a full ten minutes from engine start to taxi.

  35. #75
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Bob,
    Besides the obvious irritation for your operations at the airport, these new students are being given improper instruction. They will learn that blocking taxiways is an approved normal procedure. Then over time your issue with just one operator will become the norm. Everyone will be blocking taxiways and not just at your airport.

    Years ago a nearby airport had an instructor who was not the best quality from the perspective of being a professional. His students were not taught the meaning of a traffic pattern. They would come and go from any direction which they chose. As a result it became impossible for me to control the traffic pattern at my airport. After several years of banging my head against the wall I finally gave up as I was becoming a basket case. As a result traffic patterns at all of the airports in this area are now nonexistent. The sad part of this is that the DPE was also rather lackadaisical, so as a result the students had no trouble passing their flight tests. They all passed. This examiner would even issue certificates based on phone calls.

    Don't give up. The issue at your airport needs to be nipped in the bud NOW!
    N1PA
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  36. #76

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    The funny thing is we sort of had a work-around. The guy running the flight school complained about us going around - we were more or less happily ignoring the blockages.

    i agree about teaching the wrong things - but folks are now assuming that the FAA wants the factory checklists completed, and most of those are interminable.

    I think I already railed against overly long checklists - lots of good reasons for shortening them to things that can actually cause problems! Forgetting to turn the master on cannot hurt you! We need fewer pilots who need to be reminded to turn the master on! Opinion.
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  37. #77
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Bob,
    Besides the obvious irritation for your operations at the airport, these new students are being given improper instruction. They will learn that blocking taxiways is an approved normal procedure. Then over time your issue with just one operator will become the norm. Everyone will be blocking taxiways and not just at your airport.

    Years ago a nearby airport had an instructor who was not the best quality from the perspective of being a professional. His students were not taught the meaning of a traffic pattern. They would come and go from any direction which they chose. As a result it became impossible for me to control the traffic pattern at my airport. After several years of banging my head against the wall I finally gave up as I was becoming a basket case. As a result traffic patterns at all of the airports in this area are now nonexistent. The sad part of this is that the DPE was also rather lackadaisical, so as a result the students had no trouble passing their flight tests. They all passed. This examiner would even issue certificates based on phone calls.

    Don't give up. The issue at your airport needs to be nipped in the bud NOW!
    Again your wisdom brings home an important point. Teach a student a bad habit, and he will be a pain. Let a school teach bad habits and the industry all suffers.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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  38. #78
    WhiskeyMike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob turner View Post

    I think I already railed against overly long checklists - lots of good reasons for shortening them to things that can actually cause problems! Forgetting to turn the master on cannot hurt you! We need fewer pilots who need to be reminded to turn the master on! Opinion.
    While we're at it maybe we should start a drive to change the name "master switch" to its correct name "battery disconnect." Ever watched a guy trying to hand prop a Cherokee with the "switch off" and the fool in the cockpit leaving the mags on and "Master" - battery off? Wake up in a cold sweat..
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  39. #79

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    Cure for that: teach hand starting.

    My opinion only - use two words - "contact" and "switch off." Before you start, make sure your student knows which switch you are talking about.

    And if some clown wants to give your beautiful wood prop a mighty shove, release the brakes to soften the blow!

  40. #80
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    I laugh every time hand propping comes up.



    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.
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