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Thread: Must do new Airframes fuselage items

  1. #1

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    Must do new Airframes fuselage items

    I am ordering a new fuse for my tired '56 super cub. What mods should I DO FOR SURE? What mods would be nice? There are many options to choose from. Also what were the red and white colors' names of the last super cubs from Piper?
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    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Must do new Airframes fuselage items

    I don't think they make them without the seat belts to the floor, and X brace, but for sure would do them. beef up the tail, inverted dog leg and extended baggage and tail clean out.
    180lb baggage would be nice. Upper baggage, maybe? I'd probably do it again. Put nutplates everywhere. Float fittings and cargo pod tabs if you ever thing there is a slight possibility you may put either on.
    I realllllllly reallllly like the big performance airmotive baggage door.

    Painted mine Juneau white and Tennessee red

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    Like Tom said, a big damn baggage door would be at the top of my list

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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    You going Airframes or Univair?
    Steve Pierce

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    Will Rogers

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    The very best option? The E-AB category!
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  6. #6

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    I am going AIRFRAMES with the fuse
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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Curious why you prefer Airframe over Univair?

    As far as mods I would ask your mission for the airplane and other airframe mods already installed. I weight out the mission and usefulness over the weight.
    Example, do you have a belly pod? weld on tabs.
    Tail clean out. Prolongs the life of the fuselage by allowing easy access to clean out that area and the bonus of ease of maintenance.
    Steve Pierce

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    I would agree with the above advice from all. Weld nuts on seat belts, 2,000 lb gross weight tube. I would not do metal tube stringers. Some people are doing a two bay upper baggage door now, but it does add some weight. I would do L21 glass but that is just what I like, people in hot part of the world may not like it.
    DENNY

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    I found Univair harder to discern what the available options were. That cud of have just been my inexperience in surfing their website. But in the end it looked like the fuses were about the same price with the same options but Airframes threw in a set of 31s, which I immediately had a buyer for, making it the cheaper of the two by a lot. I also bot the "fowlers" from them but I have dealt with Univair on some other parts recently and they are great to deal with for sure.

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    Hardtailjohn's Avatar
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    What you gonna do with the old frame?
    John

  11. #11
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Airframes gear fitting alignment.
    14099.jpeg
    14097.jpeg
    Steve Pierce

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    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Alignment...you boresiting with a laser from one fitting to the other?

    Gary
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  13. #13

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    [QUOTE=Steve Pierce;742495]Airframes gear fitting alignment.

    How old are these pics? Are you implying all airframes fuselages are this way?
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    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Airframes gear fitting alignment.
    14099.jpeg
    14097.jpeg
    going to have to spin that laser 4 times at 90 degree increments to get a valid answer..... and show all 4 pictures...

    but in super cub terms, that means.. put the front bolt in first....

    they're not many virgin piper original fuselages out there.. and even when they left piper they were +- 1/8" or 1/4"

    our jig made off an unassembled ever spare fuselage was 1/8" off on rear spar attach hight....

    and univair rear spar is over 1/8" inch off, vertical attach wise, last time I looked in 2006, and also on a spar marked from 1987? 1977?? compared to an original piper spar......

  15. #15
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Grind a bullet head on a cutoff AN6 and pilot the gear bolt in. But mine were both rebuilds with wear not new. Never did check the various landing gears with a straight bar to see if they were true.

    Gary
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  16. #16

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    I am going to sell the original 1956 Piper fuse with both doors and clamp on float fittings when the boys get all the parts off of it in a month or so.
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    Hardtailjohn's Avatar
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    I'll be delivering a Bearhawk down to that area about then....might have to swing by.
    John

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    The fuse is near Fargo, just inside Minnesota,where my cub is being rebuilt and not in NW Montana where I live. FYI.

  19. #19
    Hardtailjohn's Avatar
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    Ahh....well that makes a difference!
    John

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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    going to have to spin that laser 4 times at 90 degree increments to get a valid answer..... and show all 4 pictures...
    It shows the exact same thing, the bore gauge is true.

    This was done recently, not sure when the fuselage was built but the serial number plate is either lazered or water jetted. Take the fuselage drawing and start measuring, lots of variances. I was shocked.

    Have had a Univair fuselage in my jig which is set to the most wing incidence per Piper's spec and it was just a tad high. I have a Piper spare fuselage I have that has never been used, has the part number in crayon and still has that brown paper wrapped around parts of it, it's gear fittings are dead nuts on. Want to have fun run a bore gauge through the gear attach fittings on the gear itself and then once mounted shoot through from one axle to another. We wondered why some airplanes wore tires so badly.
    Steve Pierce

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  21. #21
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Steve were they mostly toe'd in or out? Big adjustment pipe over or in axle a fix?

    Gary

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    Any idea what you might be asking for the fuse?

  23. #23
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    Steve were they mostly toe'd in or out? Big adjustment pipe over or in axle a fix?

    Gary
    Left gear attach fittings off by .1/4" and right by .375". Alignment of the left axle was good, the right axle was 3/4" towed out.
    Screenshot_20190317-081355.png
    Steve Pierce

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    steve, how did you mount the light on the other side? i was thinking a sleeve could be turned with the laser light mounted in it and then put inside the axle on the other side and a plastic plug put in the side your showing and see if it hits the center of the plug. and then do it both ways. the ears could easily be off a touch. the fuselage fittings matter but down there on the axles is where it counts.

  25. #25
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Most modifications or additions are preference. Every thing you add is weight... and a pound here and there on the skeleton will be multiplied by 4 when done I bet. Big baggage means more material to make floor and sides, and bolts and nuts to hold, and maybe paint... on it goes.

    Do the Carbon Concepts CF baggage to make your life easy on yourself if you want lots of room.

    Rear seatbelt attach should be extended to above the seat frame, make it easy to reach and attach the belts. Front seats to the frame beside the seat attach.

    I like the Powder coat dark for cabin areas.

    Weld on Float fittings and tabs are nice if you ever think you might want floats, as are tabs for the pod.

    I like big glass

    Good shoulder harness attach points

    Not sure what to say about Steve's alignment issues, seems everyone that builds frames cycles in and out of measurements.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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  26. #26
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aktango58 View Post
    Most modifications or additions are preference. Every thing you add is weight... and a pound here and there on the skeleton will be multiplied by 4 when done I bet. Big baggage means more material to make floor and sides, and bolts and nuts to hold, and maybe paint... on it goes.

    Do the Carbon Concepts CF baggage to make your life easy on yourself if you want lots of room.

    Rear seatbelt attach should be extended to above the seat frame, make it easy to reach and attach the belts. Front seats to the frame beside the seat attach.

    I like the Powder coat dark for cabin areas.

    Weld on Float fittings and tabs are nice if you ever think you might want floats, as are tabs for the pod.

    I like big glass

    Good shoulder harness attach points

    Not sure what to say about Steve's alignment issues, seems everyone that builds frames cycles in and out of measurements.
    Pay attention to what you put in, and a few tricks here and there and you will have a light weight cub. Lots of CF too.
    1125 on 35’s.
    1085 on 31’s.
    Upper baggage, lower extended big baggage door 180lb baggage float fittings pod tabs tail clean out, full electrics, lights, radio and transponder 160hp with sutton and front mounted cooler.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    Pay attention to what you put in, and a few tricks here and there and you will have a light weight cub. Lots of CF too.
    1125 on 35’s.
    1085 on 31’s.
    Upper baggage, lower extended big baggage door 180lb baggage float fittings pod tabs tail clean out, full electrics, lights, radio and transponder 160hp with sutton and front mounted cooler.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Are the CF parts now STC’d or did you get individual Field Approvals.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  28. #28
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Randy has a letter from the FSDO stating it’s minor. I have it on my computer. Think Steve P has it too


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  29. #29
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    Randy has a letter from the FSDO stating it’s minor. I have it on my computer. Think Steve P has it too
    Do you know if Randy did any fire proof testing of the resins which he uses? That would be an approval issue. We had to add a third chemical to the resins which we used on the Twin Bee cowls in order to make them fireproof.
    N1PA

  30. #30
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Here is what Randy at Carbon Concepts sent me on the fuel tank covers and the floorboards.

    Tank lid construction







    1. Mold is sprayed with AirDry at .5 per sqft.
    2. 1 layer of carbon fiber 5.8 OZ is layed over mold.
    3. 2 layers of 5HS 11 OZ carbon fiber is layed on all edges.
    4. The four pieces of .25” core is placed on mol.d
    5. 15” x 9” 5.8 Carbon fiber reinforcement is placed on mold.
    6. Second layer of 5.8 Carbon fiber is placed over entire part
    7. Vacuum process is performed with Hetron FR 992 Vinalester resin on layup until cured.
    8. Part is demolded and trimmed.

    Floor Board construction







    1. Mold is sprayed with AirDry at .5 per sqft.
    2. 1 layer of carbon fiber 5.8 OZ is layed over mold.
    3. 1 layer of 5.8 oz E-glass is layed over mold
    4. ¼” 4# PVC foam is layed over mold.
    5. Second layer of 5.8 Carbon fiber is placed over entire part
    6. Vacuum process is performed with Hetron FR 992 Vinalester resin on layup until cured.
    7. Part is demolded and trimmed.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Steve Pierce

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  31. #31
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Thanks Steve, This answers the question: https://www.sherfab.com/assets/image...0992%20TDS.pdf
    Those of you who are using these components ought to include this documentation with your paperwork in order to back up your use to an FAA type who may raise the fire retardant question.
    Randy is using the proper resin it's just not documented.
    N1PA
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  32. #32
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Thanks Steve, This answers the question: https://www.sherfab.com/assets/image...0992%20TDS.pdf
    Those of you who are using these components ought to include this documentation with your paperwork in order to back up your use to an FAA type who may raise the fire retardant question.
    Randy is using the proper resin it's just not documented.
    As you install it in a plane covered in flammable dope.... sure...


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  33. #33
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    As you install it in a plane covered in flammable dope.... sure...
    No mike, it is a FAA requirement for the forward of the firewall components.
    N1PA

  34. #34
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Here is what Randy at Carbon Concepts sent me on the fuel tank covers and the floorboards.

    Tank lid construction







    1. Mold is sprayed with AirDry at .5 per sqft.
    2. 1 layer of carbon fiber 5.8 OZ is layed over mold.
    3. 2 layers of 5HS 11 OZ carbon fiber is layed on all edges.
    4. The four pieces of .25” core is placed on mol.d
    5. 15” x 9” 5.8 Carbon fiber reinforcement is placed on mold.
    6. Second layer of 5.8 Carbon fiber is placed over entire part
    7. Vacuum process is performed with Hetron FR 992 Vinalester resin on layup until cured.
    8. Part is demolded and trimmed.

    Floor Board construction







    1. Mold is sprayed with AirDry at .5 per sqft.
    2. 1 layer of carbon fiber 5.8 OZ is layed over mold.
    3. 1 layer of 5.8 oz E-glass is layed over mold
    4. ¼” 4# PVC foam is layed over mold.
    5. Second layer of 5.8 Carbon fiber is placed over entire part
    6. Vacuum process is performed with Hetron FR 992 Vinalester resin on layup until cured.
    7. Part is demolded and trimmed.

    Thanks, I'm away from my computer this week

  35. #35
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Do you know if Randy did any fire proof testing of the resins which he uses? That would be an approval issue. We had to add a third chemical to the resins which we used on the Twin Bee cowls in order to make them fireproof.
    Direct answer is yes, he did fire testing.

    He actually did some formula changes in development, hence his current approval letter.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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