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Thread: Source for experimental PA12/early-18 nose bowl?

  1. #1

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    Question Source for experimental PA12/early-18 nose bowl?

    I am aware that Wag Aero carries fiberglass 12/early-18 nose bowls, but does anyone have any suggestions for other possible sources?

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    You want with or without oil cooler? With or without our cooler lip?
    IMG_20190311_130154.jpgIMG_20190311_130200.jpg

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    Steve Pierce

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    I did not know about the availability of an oil cooler lip, and poses an interesting option. I am currently running oil cooler behind #4, but there are problems with that setup and have been toying with the idea of moving it up front. I probably do not need the lip however as I do not have an alternator nor starter, so I could tuck it up higher than most (and might allow me to retain the current lower cowl iteration a bit longer...)

  4. #4
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    It really only matters if you have removed a front oil cooler and retained the factory bottom cowl with the half moon cut out. I will sell the fiberglass split nose bowl in the bottom picture for $400. It does not have any holes or fasteners installed yet.
    Steve Pierce

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  5. #5
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Randy Apling at Carbon Concepts makes all renditions of nose bowls. http://www.carbonconceptsak.com/
    Steve Pierce

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    Likes mike mcs repair liked this post

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    Awesome info, Steve. I really appreciate it!

    I have some modifications in mind that may be a bit invasive to the nosebowl and lower cowl. Rather than destroy the currently (flying) setup, I may just bite the bullet and buy a new nose bowl. I will keep yours in mind.

  7. #7
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Haven’t heard of anyone moving an oil cooler back up front. Just moving them from front to rear........


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    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motosix View Post
    Awesome info, Steve. I really appreciate it!

    I have some modifications in mind that may be a bit invasive to the nosebowl and lower cowl. Rather than destroy the currently (flying) setup, I may just bite the bullet and buy a new nose bowl. I will keep yours in mind.
    What are the problems you are attempting to fix??


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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    Haven’t heard of anyone moving an oil cooler back up front. Just moving them from front to rear........


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    You are sure to be bored by the end of this, but you asked!

    I was initially chasing some CHT problems on #4 due to my thin hot air in Colorado and what turned out to be the lack of the "oil filter adapter plate". A little oil metering plate is sandwiched between two gaskets between the accessory case and the oil filter adapter housing and is crucial for low-RPM engine oil pressure on an O235. I am sure Steve Pierce is nodding his head right now as he has experience with the little O235.

    Item #4 in the below graphic:

    oilplate.png

    Without that metering plate, the most common symptom is low oil pressure when at low idle and hot (when the vernatherm is open). Another side effect of when the plate is not installed is that the oil is not circulated through the oil cooler/accessory/lines/etc as direct. The oil looks cool on the temp sensor but can be coking inside the cooler. That problem coupled to a baffle that was built too close to the #4 cylinder fins led to some bad CHTs only on #4. Rebuilding the rear baffle to allow more air volume between the oil cooler face and the cylinder fins helped tremendously with the CHTs, but I did not find the missing oil metering plate until later.

    Now I am looking to strike the right balance between air flow across the oil cooler and air flow across that rear cylinder. I find I need more air flow across the oil cooler in the summer to keep the oil temps reasonable, but the escaping air directly out the back of #4 and not around #4 cylinder is leading to (slightly) higher CHTs again. With the metering plate installed the whole cooling system now responds to changes as I would expect it to, so I am tempted to do some testing with the oil cooler up front to decouple the dual-purposing of the air flow around that #4 cylinder. I don't want to pressurize my lower cowl, but a new cool source of air for the oil cooler might be beneficial. Who knows -- won't know until I test it out, right?

    For most people this would never be a problem as you guys have thick air which masks much of the above, but I am often in 90 degree days at 10-12KMSL with a anemic little motor. An O235 might put out an honest 100HP at the RPM it can actually attain at sea level, so I am probably closer to 50-60HP when I get up to 12-14K. Until I bolt on a 320, I have been slowly stripping everything I can off my airplane to save weight in hopes of making the high hot days a bit easier. The starter was the latest casualty, so rather than glass up the old one to plug the starter hole (it may go back on someday), I was tempted to build up a new one hence this original topic...

  10. #10
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Here is a good thread on this issue with the O-235.
    http://www.shortwingpipers.org/forum...n-the-O-235-C1
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  11. #11
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motosix View Post
    You are sure to be bored by the end of this, but you asked!

    ..

    Now I am looking to strike the right balance between air flow across the oil cooler and air flow across that rear cylinder. I find I need more air flow across the oil cooler in the summer to keep the oil temps reasonable, but the escaping air directly out the back of #4 and not around #4 cylinder is leading to (slightly) higher CHTs again. With the metering plate installed the whole cooling system now responds to changes as I would expect it to, so I am tempted to do some testing with the oil cooler up front to decouple the dual-purposing of the air flow around that #4 cylinder. I don't want to pressurize my lower cowl, but a new cool source of air for the oil cooler might be beneficial. Who knows -- won't know until I test it out, right?
    .
    dan's aircraft up here makes a oil cooler door/diverter that is just what you need the door is up high so none of the air that should be flowing on the cylinder is diverted(thinking normal left rear cooler installation)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    dan's aircraft up here makes a oil cooler door/diverter that is just what you need the door is up high so none of the air that should be flowing on the cylinder is diverted(thinking normal left rear cooler installation)
    Sounds perfect? Like a flap of aluminum (opens at top, hinge on bottom) that diverts air down to the cylinder but also allows air above the flap/door to travel through the oil cooler?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by motosix View Post
    Sounds perfect? Like a flap of aluminum (opens at top, hinge on bottom) that diverts air down to the cylinder but also allows air above the flap/door to travel through the oil cooler?
    Do you have any pictures of your current setup?

    I built a small fixed diverter between my #4 an oil cooler. I plan to throttle oil cooler air at the exit of the oil cooler.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by CamTom12 View Post
    Do you have any pictures of your current setup?

    I built a small fixed diverter between my #4 an oil cooler. I plan to throttle oil cooler air at the exit of the oil cooler.
    I don't off hand.

    I control air flow at the back of my oil cooler as well, and it that works just fine. (aluminum plate that I simply clamp on/off as needed)

    The diverter is something I have seen via flapper-box-sorta-thing (or the typical vans guillotine control) , but didn't think to try via a simple curved ramp-like internal fairing to direct more air down rather than allow it to escape backwards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by motosix View Post
    I am aware that Wag Aero carries fiberglass 12/early-18 nose bowls, but does anyone have any suggestions for other possible sources?

    Thanks in advance.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Piper-Cub-Nose-Cowl-Assembly-PA12-14-Fire-Resistant-Fiberglass/143167911720?hash=item215578f728:g:sS8AAOSwyYRcM8J 9 i looked at this again the shipping is way out of wack.
    Last edited by tempdoug; 03-13-2019 at 11:55 AM.
    Thanks motosix thanked for this post

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