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Thread: Looking at an old plane

  1. #1

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    Looking at an old plane

    An old Cessna, its old panel vfr only, its cheap, the new parts it has on it are worth what I will give for it, if my mech gives it thumbs up. I dont know what some of this stuff on the panel is, its before my time. I am trying to out if that's a transponder under the old com nav on top? Another thing stumpin me is that square with 12 bumps, a brail placard.. LOL

  2. #2
    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
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    Blurry but id say adf.
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers

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    Thought it might be a DME, they said it had a transponder but I do not see one.

    Found this https://www.ozpilot.com.au/bendix-king-kn-64-dme-ohc looks like a DME.
    Last edited by supercub1999; 02-12-2019 at 02:45 AM.

  4. #4
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    What's the model number on the face? It's on the left end of the face plate.

    Also, I doubt your coms are legal (only 720 channels).

    On the plus side, install a CGR-30P, new avionics, and remove the vacuum system and you'll remove 40 lbs from the total weight.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.

  5. #5
    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
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    Could very well be one of the dme's you put the vor freq into and gives the distance/time. Cant see very well. Id say that square thing is a fuse block.
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers

  6. #6
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    There is and old school transponder mounted low. You can see the frequency window below the ADF dial, just to the right of the left hand yoke.

    Web
    Last edited by wireweinie; 02-12-2019 at 02:50 AM. Reason: Oops!
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.

  7. #7

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    Ok, thanks. I saw that box below the ADF tuner, but thought that was a second nav the way the digits are, looks like 117.20, is that what I am seeing ? It is not a great picture, sorry, I did not take it, from add.
    Were the old transponders 5 digits with point after 3? more to google now LOL

  8. #8
    wireweinie's Avatar
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    No. You're right. My bad, but it's 11:15 pm, lol. It is a nav control. Do you have any pics of the lower panel area?

    Judging by the lack of buttons, I think that newer Bendix/King unit is a DME (maybe the KN-64?). But I'd still need the model number to verify.

    Web
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  9. #9
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Old 310s are cheap to buy and expensive to maintain.
    N1PA
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  10. #10
    WhiskeyMike's Avatar
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    KT-76C. This discussion make me glad I'm old, and I'm glad you asked. I even carry a backup paper chart of some kind. Even a road map. A Michelin road map took me all the way up and down through Nigeria. BTW 720 channel radios are perfectly legal - you may not go everywhere you want, but a lot of us turn the noise off so we can hear the engine.
    Last edited by WhiskeyMike; 02-12-2019 at 07:19 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Old 310s are cheap to buy and expensive to maintain.
    Thanks, and my ears are open, I have only made and offer of 20k conditionally if mech doesn't find any problems. Owner payed 23k for it two years ago and just wants what he has into it. Its a flying plane and you can see one reason it's cheap the original old panel. Got new props, new heater, new mags and harness both sides and gens swapped for alternators to. All that was put on from pilot he bought it from, he has flown a hundred hours on it and wants an IFR Barron now he says. He is willing to fly it 200 miles to my IA to have inspect it, that tells me he has faith in it. Engines rebuilt in the 90's but both below TBO, one 1300 and one 600 hours.Regarding old 310s, the bad things I have read about are the over wing exhaust corroding which can cause corrosion damage to the rear spar, and the gear needs rigged every annual. Haven't read much more about them, and going to have the IA check all this out. If there is corrosion on the spar from the over wing exhaust than I won't buy it, if none than I don't see how 20K can be too bad of a gamble.It's in annual and a flying plane, ADs are completed and new props don't have one... but I am still listening for advice to move forward or step back from this? Thanks and the full photo below, doesn't show much more of the panel.
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    Last edited by supercub1999; 02-12-2019 at 04:02 PM.
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    Sounds like it’s cheap enough that if you can fly 150 hrs off it with just gas and oil, it won’t owe you anything. At that point, if it needs much, you park it by the dumpster. Are you building twin time or is this transportation? If it’s transportation, better buy something with a better panel
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  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinJ View Post
    Sounds like it’s cheap enough that if you can fly 150 hrs off it with just gas and oil, it won’t owe you anything. At that point, if it needs much, you park it by the dumpster. Are you building twin time or is this transportation? If it’s transportation, better buy something with a better panel
    Thanks, and short vfr trips, fun flying, a trip to Oshkosh maybe with dad. The Cub is way too slow to go anywhere like that more than 100 miles away. Been looking for a single that does 150 knots, but found this, I figure if I get 100 hours out of it and don't want to pay for overhaul engines than I can park it or get a little out of it. But than again maybe if it is a good plane rebuild the engines and upgrade it to IFR, if I like it, I think the B models look really cool.
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  14. #14
    mvivion's Avatar
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    You will be STUNNED by what it would cost to significantly upgrade that panel, let alone panel and engines......

    I'd say you're considering buying a money pit. Even if it checks out, sorta, it's likely to nickel and dime you to death.

    MTV
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  15. #15
    Cub junkie's Avatar
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    Get it cheap and fly it just like it is. A nice hand held GPS is all you need in there. When the airplane needs major maintenance part it out. Unfortunately most old twins are in the part it out category.
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  16. #16

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    Thanks.
    I am concerned about the moneypit possibility, hoping the IA will give me a good call there, and yes flying it just the way it is would be the plan, also has a garmin 696 comes with it so navigation vfr will be covered. Thanks for all the input.

  17. #17

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    King KN 64 DME.

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  18. #18

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    Really good reason that light twins are cheaper than J-3s. Unless you are building twin time for a future job, spend the extra bucks for a Mooney. Opinion.

  19. #19
    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supercub1999 View Post
    Thanks.
    I am concerned about the moneypit possibility, hoping the IA will give me a good call there, and yes flying it just the way it is would be the plan, also has a garmin 696 comes with it so navigation vfr will be covered. Thanks for all the input.
    If it flys or floats, its a money pit!
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers
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  20. #20

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    How much fuel does it carry? Maybe if the seller agrees to fill it up that would help with the value? If a buyer is willing to fly it only one year or before the next annual then it might be worth it. Otherwise the first annual might possibly be more than you paid for it.
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  21. #21
    supercub's Avatar
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    Top Radio is I believe an old KX 170, below it, I believe is a King DME, below that is an audio panel with marker beacons, next is a com unit, the braille looking thing I have no idea, I'm guessing it's just a cover to hide the hole there. In the lower panel is an old ADF, and below it is a Nav unit to run one of the VOR heads. Hate to say this, but that all very old gear, and isn't worth anything, good boat anchor material........if some of it works, that's good, but if anything happens to any piece, more then likely you won't be able to find anyone to repair. I don't see a XPND, but could be out of the pic on the far right side of the panel, or to the left of the pilots yoke on the lower panel. 20K must seem like a good price, but you could spend that much and more easily on some repairs. Make sure you get a good pre purchase, have them check the spars behind the engines. 310's have been know to have spar corrosion from the exhaust. Like someone else said. Light twins in today's market are cheap, why? because they cost a ton to maintain. I know of a C-421 that just had both engines, firewall forward done.......bill was over $100,000, same thing on that older 310 would probably be $60k I guessing. Personally, unless I had a reserve of at least $50k I would be afraid to touch it. Oh ya, the instruements in it are old too, and just waiting to fail.
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  22. #22
    aktango58's Avatar
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    If you end up buying it and ever want a co-pilot for a long trip, let me know. I have been wanting to build my twin time, but keep getting stuck in float planes and such. Would love to buy you some fuel for a trip somewhere!
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  23. #23
    Hardtailjohn's Avatar
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    They're an awesome old plane!! That's what, about a '57? I maintained a couple of them and we got along just fine. Like said, look the rear spars over really well, and the nose gear likes to crack the keels on the side of the well. That's a pain in the butt job to fix, and is quite often from someone reefing too hard when towing by the nosewheel. Make sure who ever did the gear swing knows how to read the manual and follow it to the letter!!! I got one in that had the gear collapse as they pulled it out from their annual when it rolled across the door track! They had an "expert" that really knew more than the manual on how to set the gear up. We spent a bunch of money to fix that mess!
    I love the old buggers and they do travel well!! Enjoy it!!!
    John
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  24. #24
    mvivion's Avatar
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    As Web noted earlier, you will HAVE to replace at least one comm radio. Maybe find an older, but serviceable King radio that'll do all the channels.

    A distant relative and a friend bought one of these to build time to get hired by airlines. They flew the heck out of it for a year, then sold it, figuring they could afford to lose a little on the sale. Never looked back.

    MTV
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  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardtailjohn View Post
    They're an awesome old plane!! That's what, about a '57? I maintained a couple of them and we got along just fine. Like said, look the rear spars over really well, and the nose gear likes to crack the keels on the side of the well. That's a pain in the butt job to fix, and is quite often from someone reefing too hard when towing by the nosewheel. Make sure who ever did the gear swing knows how to read the manual and follow it to the letter!!! I got one in that had the gear collapse as they pulled it out from their annual when it rolled across the door track! They had an "expert" that really knew more than the manual on how to set the gear up. We spent a bunch of money to fix that mess!
    I love the old buggers and they do travel well!! Enjoy it!!!
    John
    Thanks, yes a 1957 310B, it sat for several years and 5 years ago it went through an extensive annual by a real pain in the ass mechanic, the words of the previous owner. I called him up as well as the pain in the ass mech and asked him what he remembered from the 3 annuals he did in 2013, 15 and 16, he told me he had the owner put new hartzell props on it, new mags and harness new plugs, rebuilt the nose gear, he made sure all the AD were done.. the first annual in 2013 he did a lot. So I am thinking it is still in descent shape. The current owner/seller is an airline pilot and said he has had fun with it over the past two years, flown it about 50 hours and now wants a baron IFR something he can fly approaches in.

    I talked to a 310 guru and he told me those over wing augmenter tubes slide out enough to get a bore scope into, might have to call him back, can you pull the tubes forward enough to get a scope in from the back? I have a non bendable scope with an articulating head camera with a bright led light. If the spars are clean not corroded and the engines give a good run up and it flys good than I think I will buy it, give my dad and I some happy times while he is still here with us, thats worth the 20k to me. Owner says it will do 170 knots, we can visit some places and have time to enjoy them. As far as the radios.. will stick to non tower fields and see and avoid.
    Last edited by supercub1999; 02-13-2019 at 10:51 AM.
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  26. #26

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    That old stuff probably works after 40 years. 10 years from now this new stuff will have smoked and be obsolete.
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  27. #27

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    You probably could part out the aircraft and make your $20 grand back even if you only get 5 hours on it before something expensive breaks.

    $20,000 isn’t much money nowadays. If you have a place to keep it, why not go for it? It might be a great investment.
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  28. #28
    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Heinrich View Post
    You probably could part out the aircraft and make your $20 grand back even if you only get 5 hours on it before something expensive breaks.

    $20,000 isn’t much money nowadays. If you have a place to keep it, why not go for it? It might be a great investment.
    I agree. There is also probably plenty of people around who would like some multi time or even someone to lease it to do mel training?
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers
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  29. #29
    Hardtailjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by supercub1999 View Post
    Thanks, yes a 1957 310B, it sat for several years and 5 years ago it went through an extensive annual by a real pain in the ass mechanic, the words of the previous owner. I called him up as well as the pain in the ass mech and asked him what he remembered from the 3 annuals he did in 2013, 15 and 16, he told me he had the owner put new hartzell props on it, new mags and harness new plugs, rebuilt the nose gear, he made sure all the AD were done.. the first annual in 2013 he did a lot. So I am thinking it is still in descent shape. The current owner/seller is an airline pilot and said he has had fun with it over the past two years, flown it about 50 hours and now wants a baron IFR something he can fly approaches in.

    I talked to a 310 guru and he told me those over wing augmenter tubes slide out enough to get a bore scope into, might have to call him back, can you pull the tubes forward enough to get a scope in from the back? I have a non bendable scope with an articulating head camera with a bright led light. If the spars are clean not corroded and the engines give a good run up and it flys good than I think I will buy it, give my dad and I some happy times while he is still here with us, thats worth the 20k to me. Owner says it will do 170 knots, we can visit some places and have time to enjoy them. As far as the radios.. will stick to non tower fields and see and avoid.
    Sounds like a good one, and it should be fun! I can't remember for positive about the tubes but it seems to me they did slide enough to peek. Good luck and have FUN!
    John

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