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blasphemy I know but ..... Toe Brakes

This is a picture of HO's toe brake pedals. When the pedal is pushed to maximum travel, do you still have full brake travel? In looking at the picture my guess is No. It appears that there would be no brake available. Regardless of the availability of brake in any condition, there is minimal leg room available. The lower seat in the Tango Cub would help with the geometry.

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For those with long legs even the firewall is too close without even considering the rudder pedals.

Seriously?

No brake with full rudder travel? You do realize this is an STC? Familiar with the process? I’m sure the FAA said yup, toe brakes. But when you use full rudder there is no brake available? Sounds good, here is your approval.
 
There was one in Canada a we years ago. One of my friends knew the guy. I sat in it, didn’t know it was a tango cub then. Just thought he did it. It felt like I needed to push with the balls of my feet to keep off the brakes. Not the same. If you are ever in MSP are I’m sure you could sit in Dan’s and see the difference.
 
Seriously?

No brake with full rudder travel? You do realize this is an STC? Familiar with the process? I’m sure the FAA said yup, toe brakes. But when you use full rudder there is no brake available? Sounds good, here is your approval.
I do realize that this is an STC. And I am very familiar in working with the FAA to produce STCs having done several. It was a simple question to you based on the observation of the picture. Can you not answer the question? Then say so.
 
I do realize that this is an STC. And I am very familiar in working with the FAA to produce STCs having done several. It was a simple question to you based on the observation of the picture. Can you not answer the question? Then say so.

You can absolutely lock the brake with the rudder at full travel required by the TC.
 
The funny part is I am totally used to the toe brakes so they are a non-event to me. I may have to do Dan's convertion just to show you guys how it works..lol

Man my first post in a lil bit and all hell breaks loose 😎😂😂
 
The funny part is I am totally used to the toe brakes so they are a non-event to me. I may have to do Dan's convertion just to show you guys how it works..lol

Man my first post in a lil bit and all hell breaks loose 

Wup, you are welcome to stir things up in this manner any time! :)

sj
 
Isn't that what a forum is for? Opinions? Even uninformed ones? Taking offense when somebody offers a different, perhaps uninformed, opinion sounds a bit insecure.

I am not taking offense at being slammed for not liking toe brakes in a Cub. The geometry is not there for me. If you are 5'11 and need toe brakes, I say go for it.
 
entertaining thread!

I installed the H.O. toe brakes in my Super Cub, I had antiquated heelys both with and without boosters in the past and have flown a number of planes with them. I never could get to the same level of confidence and precision in the cub with big gusty 25k+ winds using heelys as I was in say a Skywagon with toe brakes. Everyone is different and maybe I was using heely's wrong but for me the toe brakes are a big improvement over heelys and one of those STC's thats worth the investment. Dans kit is very high quality and yes, I have full rudder deflection AND full braking available at the same time.

opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.
 
tgpiscoya wrote:
I have an 89 Cub with H.O. Aircraft toe brakes in it. I have years of heel brake experience, more so with toe brakes. I don't have size 14 feet, so it is very difficult to get full rudder and full brake with heel brakes; it is one or the other. I fly in northwest Alaska where a 25 knot plus wind is a normal thing, so there are a great many times when I need full rudder and brake just to taxi; this is most often difficult to accomplish with heel brakes. The first modification on my Cub were H.O. Aircraft toe brakes, I'll never have heel brakes in my airplanes again. Dan White owns H.O. Aircraft, is a first class individual, runs a top notch shop with the best staff anywhere. Dan's products are the best you can get. I am totally satisfied with Dan's first class treatment. To name drop a professional business (such as H.O. Aircraft) in a negative view just to validate your position or opinion without fact, is in extremely poor taste.

In this thread, "hottshot" asked a very specific question about H.O. Aircraft toe brakes; out of all these comments, only "Todd Long" has actually had experience with the toe brakes in question, thank you Todd for your input. Everybody else here has indicated zero experience with H.O. Aircraft toe brakes, and has proven that "opinions are like assholes, everybody has one." Opinions are great, but spoken without benefit of fact, they are most often baseless for the question on hand. It was as if "hottshot" threw some gas on the floor to see what would ignite before actually calling H.O. Aircraft. Only "Stewartb"actually suggested calling H.O. Aircraft for details. It is amazing to see so much speculation here without actually addressing the original question, some of these comments that were supposed to be on H.O. Aircraft toe brakes included:

"How long are your legs.... handle your plane without using the brakes."
"toe brake implementation in Tango Cubs (I have not flow the conversion) are very poor..."
"I believe toe breaks will get you on your nose faster."
"All the cool kids use heel brakes."
"Put Kyler up front, he knows how to work the brakes. You only need them when you are about (the) run off the end of the gravel bar anyway."
"...the 180 leaps off the ground even with the brakes actuated."
In actually referring to the H.O. Aircraft toe brake picture, there was this... "When the pedal is pushed to maximum travel, do you still have full brake travel... my guess is no... it appears there would be no brake available." Amazing... do you actually think the FAA would sign off on an STC so you could sell it as you have observed?
One of my favorite 'related' comments was: "Hey! Where do you guys get that popcorn emoji?"
"... there is no way that there is room for toe brakes."
Then there are the usual "your/you're" misuse, "toe breaks," etc.

It was an amusing read, but my H.O. Aircraft toe brake equipped Cub is actually not related to any of the above comments. With my toe brakes, I can get full rudder and full brake if needed, the engineering of the toe brake kit could not get any better, the quality of materials is the best available, it is nearly maintenance free (no fluid changes with temp, etc), I'm 5'11" and I have never had a leg room issue with my toe brakes, but more importantly, my H.O. Aircraft toe brake purchase/installation and personal interaction with Dan White and his professional staff was the best you can find anywhere. If H.O. Aircraft was closer to my Alaskan location, I would only deal with Dan for all my Cub maintenance requirements.

So, to answer "hottshot's" question, I have H.O. Aircraft toe brakes in my Cub and I would highly recommend it; you will not be dissatisfied. Installation expenses vary with the condition of your Cub, so it is difficult to speak to that concern. The last I checked, my Cub was "real," so I suppose that makes me a "real Cub guy" regardless of brake installation. What's next? Three point/wheel landings? Cub yellow vs. red and white?

I am use to heel brakes but am buying a C180 so I want to convert it to heel brakes instead of adapt to the toe brakes. :smile:
He asked what the HO STC cost to install. He didn't ask about how well they work. You want to quote me and my posts. You don't know me. You don't know that I have known Wup for the past 20 years or so. You don't know that his son Kyler spent the summer here and flew my Super Cub. You don't know than Wup and I rib each other on a regular basis. I am glad you like you HO toe brakes. I like my heel brakes and have no reason to modify them. That is what I posted and I stick by it. My opinion, my ass hole. Thanks for telling us your experience with HO toe brakes. That was useful information.
 
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I don't recall the exact cost, they were installed during the build but I seem to recall it was a few thousand dollars (someone clarify if they know).. like most things certified, not cheap.. hence the trend towards experimental.
 
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There are many like it but this one is mine.
I must master it as I must master my life.
My asshole without me is useless.
Without my asshole, I am useless . . .

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My wife complained about he Super Cub heel brakes. So we bought her a C150/150TD and she is very happy. Yes an expensive solution, but again she is happy and I have the Super Cub all to myself.
 
Lets imagine that a Super Cub, Carbon Cub....... never came equipped with toe brakes and no one ever made a kit to change them. Would you not buy a Cub and miss out on all the fun?

Glenn
 
Lets imagine that a Super Cub, Carbon Cub....... never came equipped with toe brakes and no one ever made a kit to change them. Would you not buy a Cub and miss out on all the fun?

Glenn

Sure. If the only thing that was ever made was a J3 with a 65 I’d have that.

What I think gets lost on this site quite often is how the majority of the readers use their planes. Sure there are some that fly and work them as a profession. But that’s the minority. And many charter pilots that fly super cubs are not on this site often, if ever.

The majority use their cub for fun. Not saying that is just hopping around the local airport and buzzing the neighbors. I use mine mostly to fly up to Canada in the summer to visit friends and go fishing and camping. It’s a social thing. Not a necessity.

These are in many ways the airplane equivalent to a Harley. The rarest of which is a 100% stock one. Mods are not because you have to but because you want to. How much chrome is too much on a Harley? To the purist anything that isn’t a stock shovel head is blasphemy. Same attitudes show up here. Do you really need 3” gear, slats, Keller flaps, 180hp, toe brakes, wide body, the list goes on. Do you need ape hangers on your Harley? Well, maybe or your biker gang might call you a sissy.

Point being each one of those above mods appeal to different individuals. Maybe not the same for you. But why add opinions and vehemently argue their validity when you have no experience? In a professional situation not all opinions are valid. No matter how hard you argue it.

For me, my size 9.5 shoes have a real hard time reaching full rudder and then get heel brakes. I find dans cub way easier and more comfortable. When I recover I’ll put in toe brakes. But for now heel is what it has and I’ll continue to fly it that way till I redo it next year. But it also gets a 200hp IO-360 and MT prop. Along with other goodies. Not because it needs it. But because I can.


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But why add opinions and vehemently argue their validity when you have no experience? In a professional situation not all opinions are valid. No matter how hard you argue it.

Vehemently? Maybe insistently, but the vehemence appears to be in intolerance of uneducated opinions. An internet forum is supposed to allow ignorant opinions. I admit to my opinions being ignorant as to how well the HO brakes work. My ignorant opinion is nevertheless part of the fabric of this discussion. I have a thousand hours in taildraggers with toe brakes, and five thousand hours in heel brake Cubs. The toe brakes in my Decatlon work perfectly. My opinions may be uninformed, but I believe they have a place in this discussion.
 
How about which engine prop exhaust combination pulls hardest and whether picking up the tail is cheating.


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These are in many ways the airplane equivalent to a Harley. The rarest of which is a 100% stock one. Mods are not because you have to but because you want to. How much chrome is too much on a Harley? To the purist anything that isn’t a stock shovel head is blasphemy. Same attitudes show up here. Do you really need 3” gear, slats, Keller flaps, 180hp, toe brakes, wide body, the list goes on. Do you need ape hangers on your Harley? Well, maybe or your biker gang might call you a sissy.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Your probably right? But I know one thing, if Island Bob who has a 38 Indian in his living room ever saw that I moved the brake pedal on my Shovelhead from the right to the left he would call me more then a sissy.

Glenn
 
Here in this thread, I just couldn't resist the uninformed irrelevance. Facts are to be disregarded? Fascinating to watch opinions defiantly defended, never mind my opinion. Apparently, opinions here are gold and one way thing not to be challenged; I'm ok with that, I've had my fun here.

I went back and read this thread again. Looks like people sharing their experience with both toe and heel brakes along with their experience with the transition. Do you feel like the facts are disregarded because other's opinions differ from yours. The nice thing about this website to me is the broad level of experience and differing opinions. I think in this case Wup was given a lot of things to think about that he probably hadn't and can now make a some what educated decision. I take what I can use and throw the rest away. Should not be so hard since it didn't cost a thing.
 
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