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blasphemy I know but ..... Toe Brakes

hottshot

hottshot

Registered User
Joseph ,Or
Ok I'm not a real cub guy but I play one on TV.... Or used to .. Not real sure honestly. Ok so here I am and yes I have slipped into the dark side twice now.... I have a couple of Cubs and the one that is currently flying has the standard heal brakes but I am much more comfortable with Toe brakes. I do know HO Aircraft has a STC for the conversion but has any one done it and what is the cost as is't listed on the web page. Don't beat me up to bad Im still kinda fragile...
 
How long are your legs? You will loose valuable leg room and in a Cub that is a premium. You really don't need brakes very much or often. You may be better off learning to use heel brakes comfortably. Learn how to handle your plane without using the brakes. Just a touch now and then.
 
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I have two airplanes one with heal brakes the other toe. Go back/forth and after a while it's no issue. IMO not worth the effort to change. Old adage, If not broke, don't fix.

Jack
 
n40ff said:
I have two airplanes one with heal brakes the other toe. Go back/forth and after a while it's no issue. IMO not worth the effort to change. Old adage, If not broke, don't fix.

Jack
Click to expand...

Same here. I go back and forth without even thinking about it.

Spend some more time in the cub and it will become very natural.

Jeff


Sent from my iPad using SuperCub.Org mobile app
 
Apparently the real problem is nobody knows how to spell “heel” brakes.....:lol:

MTV
 
You just need more hours in the saddle with them. The great thing about heel brakes is you can mash the rudders with all your might and not worry about engaging the brakes - something you can't do in a toe brake cub or a c-180/170. I believe toe breaks will get you on your nose faster... So if there will be less "healing" with "heel" brakes... :lol:

sj
 
That's bass akwards. The simultaneous use of rudder and brakes in controlled proportions is much easier with toe brakes. And if you need to smash the rudder while on the ground? Brakes are in the picture, too.
 
stewartb said:
That's bass akwards. The simultaneous use of rudder and brakes in controlled proportions is much easier with toe brakes. And if you need to smash the rudder while on the ground? Brakes are in the picture, too.
Click to expand...

I disagree. If you started in a Cessna 180 where you used the toe brakes all the time as part of crosswind technique, steering, etc, maybe, but in a cub it is not necessary, and when it is - taxi turns, etc, it's easy to get used to. The only people I have seen that struggle with heel brakes after flying them for a long time are people with really small feet. Way too easy to hit the brakes in early model 180s 170s, and some later model planes.

sj
 
P.S. the toe brake implementation in tango cubs (I have not flow the conversion) are very poor in my opinion.

sj
 
All the cool kids use heel brakes.

In all seriousness, you will learn to use whatever you fly. You will assimilate and forget you ever had this concern. Its really a non issue.
 
You are likely to burst into flames and burn in Hell for just thinking about that.:evil: I do understand what you are saying about being comfortable with toe brakes. I learned in a pacer and the brake setup was perfect for me, I needed them often when I first started to fly. I now have a cub and a 180 and prefer the heel brakes mostly because I like bunny boots in the winter and hiking boots in the summer. I set high in the Cessna so my ankle is not quite at the best angle in the Cessna and use street shoes which give me better ankle flex. SJ makes a good point about foot size and I would also add to check too make sure you don't have bent rudder pedals which is very common. One thing to think about in a toe brake plane we land/fly with toes pointed up, in cub you land/taxi duck foot (heel on brake with toes pointed out to the side). Start doing this when you are just flying around and it will feel more natural when you hit the ground.
DENNY
 
Learn to use heel brakes, it is not that hard, after a 100 hours it is a nothing burger. Like others have said you really don't need that much brake in normal take off and landing situations, sooner or later someone will want you to fly there cub with heel brakes and you will be faced with the fact that you never learned to use them and be afraid. Learn them now and be done with it.... I put heel brakes in Bushwacker I like them so much now!
 
hottshot said:
Ok I'm not a real cub guy but I play one on TV.... Or used to .. Not real sure honestly. Ok so here I am and yes I have slipped into the dark side twice now.... I have a couple of Cubs and the one that is currently flying has the standard heal brakes but I am much more comfortable with Toe brakes. I do know HO Aircraft has a STC for the conversion but has any one done it and what is the cost as is't listed on the web page. Don't beat me up to bad Im still kinda fragile...
Click to expand...

The military Cubs had toe brakes. Somewhere out there, there is Piper drawings of the system.

Sigh . . . if you insist . . . .

Web
 
In one day, I have flown an airplane with toe brakes, one with heel brakes and then rode a motorcycle with right hand throttle and left hand shift and finally rode my Indian Chief with left hand throttle and right hand tank shift,foot clutch. I'm a stud.
 
Wup, call Dan @ HO and ask him about it. Heck, now I'm curious he's configuring the pedals.

It isn't a badge of honor or a walk of shame to use one or the other. When I had the -12 I jumped from Cessna to -12 and back lots of times. It's like stick vs yoke. RH throttle to LH. It's just a control and we can adapt but if one feels better? Why not use it? My entire flying life has centered around a narrow strip that's usually got crossing winds rolling over trees. By narrow I mean 2-3' wider than the mains. I'm used to using rudder and brake at the same time, and sometimes with lots of dancing from left to right and back. I can control the plane better with toe brakes and applies to my new Cub as well. Is it because that's what I'm used to? Perhaps. What's wrong with that?

On the theoretical side? The relationship between brake and rudder pedal position remains constant throughout the travel with toe brakes. It varies constantly with heel brakes. If a design engineer started with a blank sheet to design a Cub today and applied ergonomics in the design? Dollars to doughnuts it'd have toe brakes.
 
Boy I miss you guys... I'm a use all the tools in the toolbox guy I have flown a bit of heel brake aircraft and I'm cool with it but just a thought ...
 
DENNY said:
….I set high in the Cessna so my ankle is not quite at the best angle in the Cessna and use street shoes which give me better ankle flex. ….
Click to expand...

I found that the angle of the rudder pedals in my C180 were awkward for me.
Odd because the pedals in my two previous airplanes (C170 & C150TD) were just fine.
I saw rudder pedal blocks like this in a couple other 180's and made a pair for mine--
works much better now.

rudder pedals 2.JPG
 

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We do this once a year. I am with SJ - the Tango toe brakes are flat-out horrible. Mis- adjust them and your toe will hit the firewall right when you need a brake the most.

Learn the heel brake so you have the versatility to fly somebody else's Cub when necessary. Don't mess up a good Cub with heel brakes - heavy, complicated, lose front seat leg room . . .

I too go back and forth daily - don't even think about it.

But after thousands of hours with toe brakes, when I bought my Decathlon it took about six months to quit digging my heels in - I guess I thought I was in a Cub.

Speaking of the Dec - the toe brakes work fine, but I shudder at the kind of work it will take to re-seal the masters. I can't even see way up in there.

Don't do it.
 
Eddie Foy said:
Heel brakes were invented by the Devil!
Click to expand...
Funny, that's what I think about toe brakes, but then again I learned to fly with heel brakes. When I first started out I would cheat and put my toes on them while taxiing, which my instructor had me do a LOT of...
 
12,000 on toe brakes. 500 on heel brakes.
Never saw a heel brake until I bought Miss P.

OLDCROWE said:
Funny, that's what I think about toe brakes, but then again I learned to fly with heel brakes. When I first started out I would cheat and put my toes on them while taxiing, which my instructor had me do a LOT of...
Click to expand...
 
hottshot said:
Ok I'm not a real cub guy but I play one on TV.... Or used to .. Not real sure honestly. Ok so here I am and yes I have slipped into the dark side twice now.... I have a couple of Cubs and the one that is currently flying has the standard heal brakes but I am much more comfortable with Toe brakes. I do know HO Aircraft has a STC for the conversion but has any one done it and what is the cost as is't listed on the web page. Don't beat me up to bad Im still kinda fragile...
Click to expand...

Whats next, you'll want to buy one of those girly Harleys without a kick starter? ;-)

Glenn
 
Hey! I resemble that remark! Converted both Cubs to B&C starters, and have not regretted it for even one second. Well, maybe while sawing that starter pilot . . .
 
hahahaha you guys crack me up, after pulling a cub out of the ditch today (not mine) I am pretty sure was primarily due to the fact he had not ever flown Heelies. I will most likely leave it as is but will play with the idea a bit more in the future. Like I said before I have flown with heelies and din't have a problem but am more proficient with toes. and with any tool I believe in working it until i'm as well versed as I can be.
 
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