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Thread: PA 18-95 Super Cub B&C Alternator Paperwork Question....

  1. #1

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    PA 18-95 Super Cub B&C Alternator Paperwork Question....

    Hello, Is there anyone out there that has gotton a one time Field Approval for the installation of the B&C 30A P/N BC-433-H Alternator on the C90-12F? If so, I would like to use your prior authorized Field Approval paperwork for doing the same on mine. I have done this on other installations....If its been done before this counts as "Approved Data" and would prove as grounds for me to do this through my FSDO. Thanks.

  2. #2
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    I have a 13A B&C 200G approved on a C-85-12F. Have you considered a PlanePower 50A STC'd unit?

    https://planepower.aero/product/airc...r-conversions/
    https://planepower.aero/wp-content/u...11-0000-PP.pdf

    Gary

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    Plane Power

    Im going to have to check on that too! Thanks.

    Gary, It would have to be someone that installed it on the same model engine.

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    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    I think the C85-12F and C90-12F share accessory case and gear parts. Same old generators. See link.

    The PlanePower is STC'd for a C90-12F per the 2nd link above.

    Gary
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Same ....

    Gary, they may share the same acc case cover but in the eyes of tg he FAA in order to use is as acceptable approved data to base my field approval off i think the engine data tags will have to be the same model.....

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    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Ok. How about this STC?

    Gary
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    Ok. How about this STC?

    Gary
    I couldnt make out the first page. Doesnt look like the AML lists the PA-18. The last page sounds promising but the STC is talking about a 30 amp generator?????....Not alternator......?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    I'll try this PDF again for STC SA02283AK
    You dont need to....standby....i found it on the FAA site
    ......

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    Well thats the same part number and everything.....i think we may have a winner! I may contact them tmrw.....the CAR3 info on the last page seems to be KEY here.....thank you!
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    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Here's an amended comment to the STC PDF

    STC- FAA APPROVALS for AIRCRAFT NOT ON THE FAA AML listing or otherwise

    MODIFIED by FAA APPROVED ENGINE CHANGES
    Installation of the Lightweight alternator in vintage aircraft is APPROVED for aircraft OTHER
    THAN those listed on the FAA AML by specific language in the STC SA02283AK cover sheet:
    How that works:
    STC certification is obtained to a set of standards related to the STC application. An approved
    model list is then issued by the FAA which designates those KNOWN type certificated airplanes
    for which the STC is an applicable installation.
    In the case of many older airplanes, engines like the A-65 or C-75 Continental have been
    replaced with upgraded versions like the C-75-12, C-85-12, C-90-12 or -14, O-200, the O-300,
    or the GO-300. Each of those improved engines can be FAA approved for installation on
    certain airframes by either FAA field approvals, FAA STCs, or FAA approved service letters
    that modify the type design criteria- any of which can be cited by the mechanic as “FAA
    APPROVED DATA” substantiating the change on an FAA form 337.
    It is not possible to list on the FAA approved STC AML, a comprehensive listing ALL of those
    potential combinations, since many are one-off change approvals, or otherwise obscure FAA
    approved data that is not readily available to the FAA engineering personnel or the STC
    holder/applicant.
    Since MANY older airplanes have been modified with engine changes, where the installed
    engine CAN NOW ACCOMMODATE AN ALTERNATOR, because the engine has a suitable
    generator drive pad drive, the FAA has addressed such changes with a general approval in the
    limitations and conditions of the STC itself. The Alternator STC SA02283AK has such a
    condition and FAA approval at paragraph 5 of the cover sheet.
    It states:
    5) This installation approval is limited to aircraft models equipped with
    a Continental C-75-12, -12F, -12FJ; C-85-12, -12F, -12FJ, -14F; C-90
    -12, -14F; C-145-2, -2H; O200-A, -B, -C, O300-A, -B, -C, or GO-300-
    A, -B, -C, -D, -E engine in accordance with FAA approved data.
    This set of FAA ‘open approval’ instructions in the STC were developed with the FAA’s full
    understanding and knowledge that such vintage airplanes often swapped engines for
    performance and availability reasons.
    This FAA APPROVAL CONDITION was intentionally added to address the inherently
    restrictive nature of an AML, and to provide greater options to the end users and operators who
    wish to incorporate a modern, lightweight electrical generating system into their vintage airplane
    which has already adopted other upgrades or safety enhancements.
    The installation of electrical busses, and other wiring in the airplane may of course be approved
    pursuant to original factory TC data, by FAA field approvals, or simply by a reference to the
    acceptable data in sections and paragraphs within AC43.13-1B & 2A, on the FAA form 337
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    Are u interpreting this the same way i am?

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    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Yes but I'd contact the STC holder/vendor first and obtain guidance on how to navigate the approval for your application: CLASSIC AERO @ 480-650-0883

    Read all of their STC info: http://luscombe.org/tips%20and%20stc

    The Power Plane unit may be simpler: https://planepower.aero/wp-content/u...11-0000-PP.pdf

    Gary

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    Gary, My thoughts exactly. Thanks!

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    Dakota. What direction have you decided to go? We need to do something on our 18-95. Thanks

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    I recently replaced the original generator in my 18-95 with the Planepower alternator, I’m happy with it.
    Thanks Rice farmer thanked for this post

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    MZ18 did you have to change any gears?

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    We reused the existing gears, direct swap out.
    Thanks Rice farmer thanked for this post

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    This is all assuming your 18-95s have been certified before with an engine driven power source? If not, think long and hard about losing your "grandfather" status. With modern radios and starters, the only reason for an alternator is if you do extended night operations. We fly every day, and get 75 starts out of a PC-545 battery. The radios go between 5 and 10 tach hours on 7 AH gel cells.

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    Call B&C, they talked me in to the 12 amp lightweight alternator for my old Chief project.
    With LED’s and a newer icom it’s plenty of juice. They will send you lots of documentation if you want it.
    Great customer service!
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  21. #21
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
    Thanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rice farmer View Post
    Dakota. What direction have you decided to go? We need to do something on our 18-95. Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by bob turner View Post
    This is all assuming your 18-95s have been certified before with an engine driven power source? If not, think long and hard about losing your "grandfather" status. With modern radios and starters, the only reason for an alternator is if you do extended night operations. We fly every day, and get 75 starts out of a PC-545 battery. The radios go between 5 and 10 tach hours on 7 AH gel cells.
    bob has a point guys. If you never had an engine driven electricity generator you will loose the exemption forever for the requirement to install a transponder and ADS-B in certain airspace. If you are in this situation, you would be better off installing a wind driven electric source. Then you will be a winner.
    N1PA

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    The Basic Aircraft wind driven alternator may be an option. Neighbor has one on a Champ that works ok. It took some tweaking to get decent airflow through it. It never did put out its max because of interference from the lip on the cowl bottom? It's the installation as it does max with a blowgun.
    You can't get there from here. You have to go over yonder and start from there.

  23. #23
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    This is a wind driven generator which I made for my experimental Cub from a Kubota tractor dynamo and regulator. It puts out 15+ amps. If it were me I would attempt to get a field approval if needed.



    You can read all about it here. http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...t=solar+panels
    N1PA
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  24. #24

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    Again, there is no real need for a generator/alternator in a Cub, unless extended night flight is a requirement.

    Even with normal filament bulbs I could fly with lights on for 45 minutes, and still transmit using the same 7 AH battery. I converted to LED, but no longer do much single engine night work. (Full moonlight only, and only for student requirements).

    If you do not have a generator/alternator, leave that solenoid driven master switch arrangement out, at least in radio and lighting circuits. We found that wind driven electrical systems didn't work very well in Cub pattern work. Batteries on those birds need charging after every flight. We fly every day, and charge every other week.

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