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Thread: One Sharp Looking Airplane

  1. #41
    WanaBNACub's Avatar
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    You definitely could build one for under that. But a new cub from any builder is going to be right in that ballpark. Don’t give up the dream, just get creative!
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  2. #42

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    I heard there was a thread out on our new "Super-Four" so I thought I better give a first hand report. In a nutshell, I couldn't be more pleased with the plane, it has far exceeded my expectations!! The 1st credit goes to Kirk Ellis, he built it and it was because of my respect for him and his flying that I decided to build one, Kirk is always under spoken but he always told me how much he liked his "Hulk" and how well it worked in his business. In our business, we often get people who just can't get in a standard Cub and we are forced to put them in a 180/185 and of course then we are more limited to where we go, I figured the 4 place would fit in somewhere between the Cessna's and our light Cubs but I was more than pleasantly surprised and I will tell why in a minute.... Second credit goes to Airframes and especially Paul Grey, his workmanship is a work of art, not only did he build the fuselage but also all off the interior, seats etc. and at the same time built a jig so that anyone else can get one just like mine! 3rd credit goes to Paul Weber, he had been my mechanic some years ago and knows that I like/need light aircraft and he did a wonderful job of the wiring keeping is to the bare minimum and very well done!!

    Now to flying the Super-Four, We got the plane out to Ultima Thule in Mid May and it has flown almost everyday since then, I can't say enough how happy I am with its performance! It wasn't long until I felt right at home in the plane and the words of Kirk rang in my ear "Its the only plane I want to fly" In the summer we operate 7 supercubs and some of them are among the lightest certified cubs in the state (good performers!) the 4 preforms right in there with the best of them! I was a little worried about the middle stick but within a hour or 2 it is second nature! The visibility is phenomenal, with the big doors and all the glass and also sitting off to the side, it is almost like helicopter visibility, when I get in one of the other cubs, the first thing I notice is how much less I see! Now to the size/room... Wow it is Really Big!! We measured 2" wider at the shoulders than our 185 and about 6" longer to the end of the baggage so it will really pack the stuff!! Also being able to put a person up front with the pilot, the CG is better and with 2 pax I actually think it preforms as good as a light cub with equal load. I put the big passenger in the back and it is very easy to load older (stiff) people in the back, they just back up to the door and sit down, then they have all the room in the back....

    Being it is a certified aircraft, I had to stay with the standard Keller flaps, If the bigger flaps get approved, I will probably try them.... Light is always right and I thought I might pull the starter out and try that but the wide fuselage is not so compatible to hand propping and since the performance is already great and I'm getting older, the starter stays, I suppose carbon fiber floorboards might have saved some, we opted for aluminum for it's ruggedness, at 1249# on 35s it would be hard to get much lighter but it sure would be fun to try , If could only have one cub it would certainly be the Super-Four!!

  3. #43

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    I fly both side and center sticks and I'm fine as long as the throttle is on the left, apparently. Didn't realize it might be an objection until Paul mentioned it. But why?

    Love the visibility, I'm sold on that alone.
    What's a go-around?
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  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Claus View Post
    I heard there was a thread out on our new "Super-Four" so I thought I better give a first hand report. In a nutshell, I couldn't be more pleased with the plane, it has far exceeded my expectations!! The 1st credit goes to Kirk Ellis, he built it and it was because of my respect for him and his flying that I decided to build one, Kirk is always under spoken but he always told me how much he liked his "Hulk" and how well it worked in his business. In our business, we often get people who just can't get in a standard Cub and we are forced to put them in a 180/185 and of course then we are more limited to where we go, I figured the 4 place would fit in somewhere between the Cessna's and our light Cubs but I was more than pleasantly surprised and I will tell why in a minute.... Second credit goes to Airframes and especially Paul Grey, his workmanship is a work of art, not only did he build the fuselage but also all off the interior, seats etc. and at the same time built a jig so that anyone else can get one just like mine! 3rd credit goes to Paul Weber, he had been my mechanic some years ago and knows that I like/need light aircraft and he did a wonderful job of the wiring keeping is to the bare minimum and very well done!!

    Now to flying the Super-Four, We got the plane out to Ultima Thule in Mid May and it has flown almost everyday since then, I can't say enough how happy I am with its performance! It wasn't long until I felt right at home in the plane and the words of Kirk rang in my ear "Its the only plane I want to fly" In the summer we operate 7 supercubs and some of them are among the lightest certified cubs in the state (good performers!) the 4 preforms right in there with the best of them! I was a little worried about the middle stick but within a hour or 2 it is second nature! The visibility is phenomenal, with the big doors and all the glass and also sitting off to the side, it is almost like helicopter visibility, when I get in one of the other cubs, the first thing I notice is how much less I see! Now to the size/room... Wow it is Really Big!! We measured 2" wider at the shoulders than our 185 and about 6" longer to the end of the baggage so it will really pack the stuff!! Also being able to put a person up front with the pilot, the CG is better and with 2 pax I actually think it preforms as good as a light cub with equal load. I put the big passenger in the back and it is very easy to load older (stiff) people in the back, they just back up to the door and sit down, then they have all the room in the back....

    Being it is a certified aircraft, I had to stay with the standard Keller flaps, If the bigger flaps get approved, I will probably try them.... Light is always right and I thought I might pull the starter out and try that but the wide fuselage is not so compatible to hand propping and since the performance is already great and I'm getting older, the starter stays, I suppose carbon fiber floorboards might have saved some, we opted for aluminum for it's ruggedness, at 1249# on 35s it would be hard to get much lighter but it sure would be fun to try , If could only have one cub it would certainly be the Super-Four!!

    and its one sharp looking airplane.
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  5. #45

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    it would be neat to see a 360 of the interior.
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  6. #46

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    Something stood out to me.....”If the bigger [Keller] flaps get approved.” Is there any work being done behind the scenes to make that happen?
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  7. #47

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    Missed the boat on this one.... when did the 4pl -18 get certified and how long did that process take?

  8. #48

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    The STC has been around for a long time. 70's time frame if I am right.
    DENNY
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  9. #49

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    Here is a couple shots of the inside, not near as good as Cory's but all I could find.....

    Click image for larger version. 

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  10. #50

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    Really nice!

  11. #51
    gdafoe's Avatar
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    Very Impressive!! Nice

  12. #52
    RVBottomly's Avatar
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    Yes, very impressive and extraordinary.

    Now I know what I want to do with plexiglass. That view is amazing.

  13. #53

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    Sooooo. Everyone's been asking the standard questions. How heavy. What's the HP. Size of flaps, and on and on. One thing I keep going back to in my head, and it's silly (and truely not important), I know.. But, where do you go about finding a windscreen for this thing?!

    I was day dreaming of what it'd take to build a 4 place cub, and seems like most major cub parts/pieces would be useable or able to be fabricated as any build goes.. With the exception of the windscreen. Is this a stock item somewhere?

    Cheers!

  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tgskillskill View Post
    Sooooo. Everyone's been asking the standard questions. How heavy. What's the HP. Size of flaps, and on and on. One thing I keep going back to in my head, and it's silly (and truely not important), I know.. But, where do you go about finding a windscreen for this thing?!

    I was day dreaming of what it'd take to build a 4 place cub, and seems like most major cub parts/pieces would be useable or able to be fabricated as any build goes.. With the exception of the windscreen. Is this a stock item somewhere?

    Cheers!
    I think mine is a C-172 windscreen, a little lighter than a C-180...
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  15. #55

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    So maybe I missed it, but what is the gross weight of the four place?

  16. #56

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    1240# 0n 35s

  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Claus View Post
    1240# 0n 35s
    I’m sorry, I mean the max gross weight. Is it increased under the STC?

    Thanks,
    Joe
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  18. #58

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    Yes It is 1900# don't know where they came up with that?? Would be nice if it were 22-2300#

  19. #59
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    AOSS and not acme or tk1?

    jim

  20. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouter View Post
    AOSS and not acme or tk1?

    jim
    Dont think Acme or TK’s are certified
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  21. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by WanaBNACub View Post
    There is one set of controls, pedals and throttle. The black knob above the mixture and beside the throttle is carb heat, the black knob on the other side is the oil cooler vane, and the blue knob above that is the cabin heat. The blue knob all the way to the right is the windshield heat.

    I made the mistake of putting my carb heat too close to another control. If I had to do it over I'd put it alone somewhere handy. that one looks the same.
    Wonder how the stick is in a left crosswind. Looks like you'd have to move your legs awkwardly ??
    I may be wrong but that probably won't stop me from arguing about it.

  22. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by S2D View Post
    I made the mistake of putting my carb heat too close to another control. If I had to do it over I'd put it alone somewhere handy. that one looks the same.
    Wonder how the stick is in a left crosswind. Looks like you'd have to move your legs awkwardly ??
    The instrument panel control locations were driven by the customer. Panels are one of those items that only need to work for the guy doing the flying. If it works for him, the rest doesn't matter. And in this case, the guy flying it has about a bazillion hours flying, so I don't argue when he wants it there, lol.

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.
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  23. #63
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    Yeah, I hear you. All I'd do if it was mine would be to switch the location of the mixture and carb heat to make it work for me.
    I've got a PA 14 I'd like to rebuild some day with a center stick.

    Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk
    I may be wrong but that probably won't stop me from arguing about it.
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  24. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by S2D View Post
    I made the mistake of putting my carb heat too close to another control.
    Like maybe the mixture control?? My 12 is that way, and on my test flight (Lewistown,MT) I cleverly cut off the fuel when I thought I was pulling carb heat. No big deal obviously, It was still spinning plenty fast, just a bit deficient in the thrust dept. for a couple seconds.
    After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF !
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  25. #65
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    Luckily I didn't do that. It's wedged between the side and the cabin heat. Just not a natural place to grab .

    Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk
    I may be wrong but that probably won't stop me from arguing about it.

  26. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Claus View Post
    Yes It is 1900# don't know where they came up with that?? Would be nice if it were 22-2300#
    That would make for a nice float plane, not at only 1900 gross though...Is Airframes working on that?
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  27. #67

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    Yes I think they are, It does need to be more for legals at least it is not 1750....
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  28. #68

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    Paul, Big fan of both your flying and the photos that you guys post for the rest of us to enjoy. I'm always impressed with the pros out there backcountry flying to pay the bills and I appreciate that you are willing to share with the armatures like myself. That said, I was curious how you handled the airworthiness side of your build. Did you just use a donor PA-18 and then transfer the data plate, logs and airworthiness or is there another method? I have a beater cub that is going to need a new fuselage in the future and I am considering going the four place route but unsure of the required paperwork. Thanks!

  29. #69
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    How much does that fuselage with powder coating weigh

  30. #70

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    AK Airframes website references the fuselage as 140-150 pounds and their fuselage build sheet references it at 155. I don't know if airframes or Kirk has a weight on one of the recent fuselages? Maybe Cory will update us on Airframes plans/goals for their 4 places?
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  31. #71

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    Hello Hendoli,
    Yes you must have a PA-18 data plate and good paperwork is also a big help, I paid a higher price for good paper work and the biggest plus was a legal field approval on a Pawnee Propeller which is the best combo for me with the 0360 motor...... If you have a existing beater PA-18, that needs a new fuselage, that is a great time to switch to a 4 place, keep in mind that the STC requires a 0360 and extended wings.... Every other Cub STC is good on it! If you build it light, it truly is an amazing and versatile machine!! Good luck!
    Paul
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  32. #72

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    Thanks for the Reply Paul. It's a beauty for sure. Last question and I'll leave you alone. Can you please settle the debate for all of us. What is the best power and prop combo on a standard cub? 150, 160 or 180 Hp? Any chance you will have the four-place at the Trade Show or Valdez this year? I'd love to see it in person. Otherwise I might have a great reason to come visit the lodge for a couple of nights!
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  33. #73

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    This previous four place build by Airframes has the 2k lbs stc.
    https://www.airframesalaska.com/Cubs...ale-s/1883.htm
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  34. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hendoii View Post
    Thanks for the Reply Paul. It's a beauty for sure. Last question and I'll leave you alone. Can you please settle the debate for all of us. What is the best power and prop combo on a standard cub? 150, 160 or 180 Hp? Any chance you will have the four-place at the Trade Show or Valdez this year? I'd love to see it in person. Otherwise I might have a great reason to come visit the lodge for a couple of nights!
    Pretty hard to beat the 0320 160hp with a 82/41 prop for what we do, I run both the 0320 and the 0360 in standard cubs and prefer the 0320, any extra weight on the nose won't help the plane land slower, so light is right for us..... I think the 4 place will be at the airman's and I'm going to try and make PAVD hope to see you there!
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  35. #75
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    Wow! That looks amazing!

    Great pictures Cory!
    cafi
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  36. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by vj88 View Post
    AK Airframes website references the fuselage as 140-150 pounds and their fuselage build sheet references it at 155. I don't know if airframes or Kirk has a weight on one of the recent fuselages? Maybe Cory will update us on Airframes plans/goals for their 4 places?
    Depending on the configuration they generally run right around 150.
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