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Thread: Spray Can Primer??

  1. #1
    supercub's Avatar
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    Spray Can Primer??

    I understand Zinc Chromate is no longer available here in CA. What is everyone using in it's place. I found
    ZINC PHOSPHATE PRIMERS at Aircraft Spruce, anyone using this, or what? Thanks
    Brian

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    Bearhawk Builder's Avatar
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    SEM self etch
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    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bearhawk Builder View Post
    SEM self etch
    Good stuff, but kind of spendy


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    stewartb's Avatar
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    POR self etch primer is pretty impressive. POR chassis paint is what Advance Powder Coating recommended to me for touch-ups on my powder coated parts.
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    supercub's Avatar
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    I'm just looking for something to use on small parts, before I spray can them. Typically little steel or aluminum parts that are hidden, and I just want some protection. Is the local big box primer good enough or should I use something else?

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    Mauleguy's Avatar
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    https://www.walmart.com/ip/Rust-Oleu...rimer/16816075

    I have used this one with really good results in my opinion it is good for those jobs you don't want to take the time to break out the spray gun.

  7. #7
    PerryB's Avatar
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    It's going to have to be an etching primer, or it'll peel off.
    After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF !

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    txpacer's Avatar
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    I've tried the zinc phosphate from Spruce, and it seems to take a very long time to dry enough to sand. Duplicolor self etching primer seems to work well at about $8 a can.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    POR self etch primer is pretty impressive. POR chassis paint is what Advance Powder Coating recommended to me for touch-ups on my powder coated parts.
    I will second that. I use POR on my stern drives that sit in the water 24/7/365. The units are big hunks of cast aluminum with stainless steel props in an electrolyte (water). Under those conditions what could go wrong LOL! POR does a great job.

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    I have been having horrible luck with rattle cans. Krylon is unusable for my purposes, and for a while Rustoleum was ok. Now Rustoleum is good for about two shots a week apart, then the half-can left clogs.

    The current solution is DupliColor. Their cans are triple the cost, but I get to use every drop, and it goes on smoothly.

    Most of my painting is just model trains (I win prizes for my 17/64" scale locomotives) but I have had considerable success on my Cub, which has never seen self-etching primer. If you keep your Cub inside, almost anything will do - a good bead blast, some rattle can primer, and don't forget the top coat - primer is porous. I last painted my wing components in 1969, and all looks good in there.

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    n40ff's Avatar
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    I've been using tractor paint from Surplus City. Best rattle can paint I've ever used and only $4/can. They have the same stuff in quarts. Their IH red is almost perfect match to Tennessee Red. OTOH their standard primer is only fair. Only relatively expensive self etch is worth using so far. The one they sell is $11. The ACS stuff is also good. The best black paint I've found is an appliance paint at Ace Hardware.

    Of coarse Bob makes a good point....."a good bead blast, some rattle can primer..." Well I don't bead blast, maybe sand steel some and hit AL with scotch brite. In those cases the self etch seems to be necessary.

    Jack

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    Quote Originally Posted by bob turner View Post
    I have been having horrible luck with rattle cans. Krylon is unusable for my purposes, and for a while Rustoleum was ok. Now Rustoleum is good for about two shots a week apart, then the half-can left clogs.

    The current solution is DupliColor. Their cans are triple the cost, but I get to use every drop, and it goes on smoothly.

    Most of my painting is just model trains (I win prizes for my 17/64" scale locomotives) but I have had considerable success on my Cub, which has never seen self-etching primer. If you keep your Cub inside, almost anything will do - a good bead blast, some rattle can primer, and don't forget the top coat - primer is porous. I last painted my wing components in 1969, and all looks good in there.

    when done with a rattle can for the moment always turn it upside down and spray for a few seconds until nothing comes out, then good to go the next time, try it.

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    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    I could not find Zinc Chromate here in Homer AK either. Just Zinc Phosphate, both green and yellow. I acid etched and allodyned my floats and tried green zinc phosphate on one float and yellow on the other. ( not enough cans of either in this town..._
    Neither worked well. The green held the paint better but still failed. The yellow does not work worth a darn.
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    Last edited by BC12D-4-85; 11-07-2018 at 07:20 PM.

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    As to turning the can upside down to clear the nozzle . . .

    I used Krylon as early as 1961, working as an artist in Atlantic City. Great stuff back then - they even had Piper Cub yellow. I used it exclusively until maybe the late 1990s, when the formula changed, the nozzles modified, and the propellant became inadequate.

    Rustoleum, at about the same time, came out with quick dry paint - essential for me; I do not want to wait two days. It worked fine until about five years ago. Still good paint, good spray pattern, but clogs very quickly. Boo. Turning a Rustoleum can upside down does nothing - paint keeps flowing. It isn't the nozzle that fails - I know how to clean nozzles.

    I have had zero problems with DupliColor - except they changed Schoolbus Yellow to a pastel shade last year. Some industrial grade stuff is quite good - the guy who overhauled my power steering pump gives me cans of "Quick Color" made by ROC Sales Inc. costs him $2/can, and it is superb stuff! He shoots it on the finished pump, and it seems to stay there, with no real surface prep. Not primer but great flat black!

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    texmex's Avatar
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    I last painted my wing components in 1969, and all looks good in there.
    You saying it lasts better then me Bob.

    I was new in '69 but I feel like I'm fading at a great rate these days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tempdoug View Post
    when done with a rattle can for the moment always turn it upside down and spray for a few seconds until nothing comes out, then good to go the next time, try it.
    Some of my recently purchased rattle cans appear to be all position spray, as in they still apply a full coat when the can is inverted. I get most of my spray paint from McMaster so it might be the Hammerite brand that does this.
    And over the past year I find the DupliColor self etching primer to offer rather impressive durability.

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    phdigger123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by texmex View Post
    You saying it lasts better then me Bob.

    I was new in '69 but I feel like I'm fading at a great rate these days.
    Wait till uou hit 55. The go to sh$t accelerator goes to the floor!
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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Clark View Post
    I could not find Zinc Chromate here in Homer AK either. Just Zinc Phosphate, both green and yellow. I acid etched and allodyned my floats and tried green zinc phosphate on one float and yellow on the other. ( not enough cans of either in this town..._
    Neither worked well. The green held the paint better but still failed. The yellow does not work worth a darn.
    That may be related to the cure time after painting. I've found that paint will lift on floats usually around the water line where the wave action effects the surface. Right down to the bare aluminum. This on both new and repainted floats. When the fresh paint cures over the winter months there doesn't seem to be a problem.
    N1PA

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    coxcub's Avatar
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    Don't turn the can upside down to clear the nozzle - it wastes propellant - just take the plastic nozzle fitting off, soak it for a few minutes in thinner/gun wash, blow through with an air gun and it's as good as new every time. Just make sure the first press next use is good and hard to seat the nozzlefitting.

    Frank
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    CenterHillAg's Avatar
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    I’ve also had good luck with the SEM self etching primer. For steel parts that are exposed and rust easily, I like to brush on Restore Rust Converter primer. Don’t use it where you’ll be gluing for fabric work though. The glue will start stripping it up and make a smeared mess.

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    turn the can upside down to empty the nozzle and dont paint the chromate just mist it on and it will be just fine, left parts outside and its worked very well. surface has to be clean and ready first. ive used duponts 225 and 226 products with the fine scotch brite pads to get the aluminum ready.

  24. #24
    stewartb's Avatar
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    Zinc chromate is sacrificial. It wears out. I’d rather have good adhesion of a tougher coating. Catalyzed paints are tougher than 1-part paints. DP-42LF and VariPrime are what’s on my shelf. Mixing up a small batch for an HVLP trim gun is easy enough.

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    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    If the paint nozzle interchanges I remove them and install on a can of brake cleaner...one blast and they're clean. If not a shot of cleaner through them flushes the residue.

    Gary
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    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    If the paint nozzle interchanges I remove them and install on a can of brake cleaner...one blast and they're clean. If not a shot of cleaner through them flushes the residue.

    Gary
    I must go shop for some break clean now..... great idea!

  27. #27
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Zinc chromate is sacrificial. It wears out.
    Hmmm, funny, the zinc chromate primer in the inside of my old 1952 Cessna 170 seemed to be in really good shape a few years ago when I sold it. Zinc chromate was used for many years as a primer, and when properly applied will last for a long tim.

    That is not to suggest that there are not better primers out there these days.

    MTV

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    stewartb's Avatar
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    It's my understanding that zinc primers do nothing on aluminum. Zinc is sacrificial on ferrous metals.

  29. #29
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    I must go shop for some break clean now..... great idea!
    If dried paint then a fine pin poke inlet and outlet will usually gets the residue freed up or soak in cleaner. Or grab a new nozzle from another can. Blast before it has a chance to dry. Good (like really bad for you) brake cleaner works just read the label for stuff like MEK Toluene Xylene Methanol. Electrical contact cleaner is usually less effective. Wear gloves and don't inhale. Worked for Clinton.

    Gary

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    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    It's my understanding that zinc primers do nothing on aluminum. Zinc is sacrificial on ferrous metals.
    MSO that’s why Cessna used zinc chromate on the interiors and as primer of seaplane kit equipped airplanes for decades?

    Other manufacturers as well, including use on floats.......

    MTV

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    stewartb's Avatar
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    Including my Cessna. And when I removed the interior and adhesives lots of it came off in sheets. That was the hardest part of the prep for that project, finding and removing the primer that wasn't well bonded.

    There's lots of info available about zinc chromate on aluminum. Most talks about the advantages of the chromate as a conversion coating on aluminum, not about zinc. But where zinc is used for corrosion its a sacrificial anode. As I understand it that's how zinc primers work, too. Newer two part primers shield the metal from moisture. That seems like a better approach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Including my Cessna. And when I removed the interior and adhesives lots of it came off in sheets. That was the hardest part of the prep for that project, finding and removing the primer that wasn't well bonded.

    There's lots of info available about zinc chromate on aluminum. Most talks about the advantages of the chromate as a conversion coating on aluminum, not about zinc. But where zinc is used for corrosion its a sacrificial anode. As I understand it that's how zinc primers work, too. Newer two part primers shield the metal from moisture. That seems like a better approach.
    I agree. Thats why I figure if it's super clean and you can treat it as new, then good epoxy is best (like Stits). I also think if it's a bit dirty then going with the sacrificial anode is best. Like inside floats.. or fogging a bit in your wings to fix those peeled spots..
    I read a MIL spec review regarding this question, because I had wondered why have an anode in epoxy if it locks everything in so well.
    It turns out the military had the same question and decided that the superior bonding qualities of epoxies made up for the lack of "sacrificial anode" effect, and they got as good or better results with the epoxy.
    So I figure, .. Super clean needs epoxy and touch up inside an airframe needs good old zinc chromate. (yes you can still buy it.. I posted about that earlier).

  33. #33
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I epoxy prime it all no matter how small or hidden. I use self etching primer when doing maintenance sometimes and on aluminum but use the good stuff on a restoration.
    Steve Pierce

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  34. #34
    stewartb's Avatar
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    Zinc chromate primers that I’ve worked with have been applied to surfaces that don’t get topcoated, like in my Cessna wings and cabin. Zinc chromate primer appears to absorb water, which we can see when a surface changes color when a drop of water or a wet fingertip touches it. That make sense if the zinc is to be available as a corrosion protection agent. It would have to be available to the wet surface. That brings me to a couple of questions. If zinc chromate primer absorbs water, how good can it be as an undercoat for a catalyzed paint? The other question is what happens to zinc chromate primer when the surface gets treated with ACF-50 or Corrosion X? By coating the pourous primer with an oily wax it seems like any benefit of the zinc is cancelled out.

    I’ve had a replacement Cessna elevator skin on a shelf for 10-12 years and haven’t gotten around to using it. It came factory primed in the familiar olive green color but this doesn’t appear to be zinc chromate. This coating is hard and waterproof. That begs another question about Cessna seaplanes. What did Cessna use as a primer under surfaces that received finish paint? I’m guessing it wasn’t zinc chromate.

  35. #35
    Bearhawk Builder's Avatar
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    For epoxy, I like this from Southern Polyurethanes
    https://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/current-ad

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