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Thread: FAA NPR Forthcoming???

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    FAA NPR Forthcoming???

    Baker invited Jack Pelton, EAA chairman and CEO, onto the stage. On Jan. 19, 2019, Pelton said, the FAA will publish a notice of proposed rulemaking that seeks to raise the weight limit for light sport aircraft from the current 1,320 pounds to 3,600 pounds. “That will allow you to fly in a 172, have four seats in the airplane, and fly 150 mph,” said Pelton, who also anticipates a rule change that would allow professional builders to construct experimental amateur-built aircraft.

    https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/...bondale-fly-in
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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Was hearing bits and pieces of this at Oshkosh. Good to hear it officially.
    Steve Pierce

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    RVBottomly's Avatar
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    I saw that yesterday and was sort of amazed. You mean they want to encourage flying?

    I imagine the design screens in Yakima are warm and ready. I think it's good news over all, but the LSA market is in for another round of wildness.

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    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    ... On Jan. 19, 2019, Pelton said..

    futuristic?

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    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Baker invited Jack Pelton, EAA chairman and CEO, onto the stage. On Jan. 19, 2019, Pelton said, the FAA will publish a notice of proposed rulemaking that seeks to raise the weight limit for light sport aircraft from the current 1,320 pounds to 3,600 pounds. “That will allow you to fly in a 172, have four seats in the airplane, and fly 150 mph,” said Pelton, who also anticipates a rule change that would allow professional builders to construct experimental amateur-built aircraft.

    https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/...bondale-fly-in
    Is today April first? I'd like to believe this, but I'm having a hard time.
    But if it really is gonna happen, a 150mph cap is pretty limiting.
    How many 3600# airplanes, even fixed gear ones, will only go 150 mph?
    At 2550#, my 180 isn't that big, nor is it esp fast, but it goes more than 150.
    Or is it gonna be a speed limit as opposed to a "max speed in level flight" thing like the current LSA regs.
    IMHO maybe they should leave the LSA parameters alone,
    and instead just change the sport pilot certificate privileges.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

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    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    I think they should use the Basic Med limitations. When it was originally conceived it was supposed to be a driver's license thing but was dummied down by Congress.
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"
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    Is 3600 for real on this since I have been hearing about 1600# proposals. And why would this get announced through AOPA from the head of EAA when there is nothing about this from EAA themselves.
    Somehow I tend to doubt the allowed weight will be higher than, lets say a C182.

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    txpacer's Avatar
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    So a PA32 and many versions of the Beech Bonanza fit under a 3600# weight. Heck an early PA32-260 will barely bust out of the 150 speed, yes it has more seats available.
    Some how these press releases just do not seem right. Granted they all are copies from some original source which I would not be surprised if it was not proofed before publishing.

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    mvivion's Avatar
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    I think it’d be great, but I’ll wait for the fact, vs the “maybe”.

    MTV

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    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    The one upside of this process is that the cesspool called Congress is not involved!
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noti...sed_rulemaking
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rulemaking
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    The one upside of this process is that the cesspool called Congress is not involved!
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noti...sed_rulemaking
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rulemaking
    Yea because the FAA would have done it without any pressure whatsoever
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!
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  13. #13
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    OK mr smarty. Who is behind this latest move?

    Quote Originally Posted by OLDCROWE View Post
    Yea because the FAA would have done it without any pressure whatsoever
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

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    This will interesting....I would assume it will allow those with Sport Pilots License to fly all qualifying LSAs up to 3600lbs....hmmm, do I dare assume. Interesting....I’m a Private Pilot with CFI-SP....I wonder how that rating will be affected. I did the rating one summer for something to do and to teach a few friends how to fly....I’ve done some tailwheel endorsements and float ratings as well. I can’t wait to see how this is all handled.

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    Cub junkie's Avatar
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    The whole process will probably move at the speed of government.
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    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    The ox is slow but the Earth is patient. I have a brand new 4 year Basic Med. I can wait.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cub junkie View Post
    The whole process will probably move at the speed of government.
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"
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    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Thread in Backcountry Pilot mentions 1650# and drop 120K speed limit. Just the messenger.

    My STC'd Taylorcraft can be 1280 or 1500# by choice. The Powers have finally realized that the pilot will load the plane as required. If more needed then it's safer to get more G/W and include some other GA aircraft on the approved LSA list.

    Gary

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    This is a comment from a similar thread on another forum,

    Also, there's speculation that the "3,600 pounds" may have been a botched metric conversion. 1650 kilograms is about 3600 pounds; if the original value was 1650 POUNDS, someone may have assumed kilograms and run the conversion to 3,600 pounds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    OK mr smarty. Who is behind this latest move?
    Well the new (I believe, first time ever) 5 year FAA funding bill (that didn’t include privitazation) did just happen to pass both houses and was signed into law just prior to this new NPR announcement...
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

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    This idea is not a new one, by the way. It was circulating about four years ago as a kind of background proposal. Same 3600-pound gross weight, but the idea was that it would allow manufacturers to use ASTM consensus standards—same as LSA—to design, build and certify new models, rather than the more restrictive FAR Part 23 which requires extensive test programs. You don’t need to be a bean counter to understand how this would reduce the cost of bringing new airplanes into the market, although how much is impossible to say.
    https://www.avweb.com/blogs/insider/...-231643-1.html

    Last edited by stewartb; 10-08-2018 at 06:28 AM.

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    The 1320lb restriction was good, it forced manufactures to carry out significant R. and D. in order to make things light and strong. As a result, it’s amazing the selection of nice STOL capable LSAs available.
    Roddy

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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoddyM View Post
    The 1320lb restriction was good, it forced manufactures to carry out significant R. and D. in order to make things light and strong. As a result, it’s amazing the selection of nice STOL capable LSAs available.
    Roddy
    Except that one brand of those popular LSA Cubs can't be flown with the window and door open unless you want the window to get ripped off. They did get pretty resourceful to save weight and figure out loopholes.
    Steve Pierce

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    The potential for the 3600# change is nothing more than a curiosity to me. BasicMed satisfies my aeromedical wishes. I hope it’s about opening up design and development opportunities for new airplanes that are more useful than the 1320# variety. That would be very good for GA.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Except that one brand of those popular LSA Cubs can't be flown with the window and door open unless you want the window to get ripped off. They did get pretty resourceful to save weight and figure out loopholes.
    Which loopholes? No matter, the 1320 gave us some light STOL planes.
    I can niether afford a 180 or similar, nor can I move one around in the snow and grass by myself.
    Nor will they go into places I want to go. If this goes into effect, yes, good for GA., but, bye bye light wt. hello big and heavy.
    Roddy

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    It would also put some more classics into the LSA class.
    https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-...rcraft_listing

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    jnorris's Avatar
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    please see the latest EAA news item that explains the current state of the issue....

    https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/eaa-news-...lt-regulations
    Joe

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  27. #27
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    The announcement was made out of context. Along with the link posted by jnorris, this article puts it into perspective:

    https://www.bydanjohnson.com/wait-wh...port-aircraft/

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    Farmboy's Avatar
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    Media statement reported by Dan Johnson - "Another industry expert said, “I hate being caught flat-footed like this.” He remembered clearly what happened with the early announcement of medical changes."

    If this person was an "industry expert", then they would have known about this rumor last year. Randy at Rans aircraft did, and designed the S21 around the fact that the gross weight for LSA is expected to go up, or even abolished. Steve Pierce heard it at Oshkosh. I think Dan Johnson is vested heavily into LSA's and is trying not to make that category become insignificant.

    pb
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    Either way why doesn't the government just give Cub crafters engraving plates and let them print their own money.
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    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    My former PA-11 went from relative obscurity pre-LSA, to expensive and desirable, and now back somewhat post Basic Med. It might be time to gather a fleet of small Cessnas and Pipers just in case that supply and demand scenario repeats. In the meantime current LSA manufacturers may see a downturn in production as potential owners consider their future options.

    Gary

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    I think a 4-place Carbon Cub would be a big hit. Maule could get a big boost. Manufacturers can adapt or die. They shouldn't be protected by regulations any more than other industries are.
    Last edited by stewartb; 10-09-2018 at 10:38 PM.

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    kestrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    I think a 4-place Carbon Cub would be a big hit. Maule could get a big boost. Manufacturers can adapt or die. They shouldn't be protected by regulations any more than other industries are.
    Protected is one thing. ...yanked around is quite another. Also, when that sort of influence and authority exists, it is more than likely that someone will get inside information and profit from it while others lose. Businesses need a stable set of regulations so that they can make a long term investments that aviation needs.

    None of my above comments are intended to take a position on what LSA should or should not be. I'm only commenting on any wild fluctuations in regulations.
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    Bearhawk, RV-4
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    nesincg's Avatar
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    I just want to put LSA floats on my cub that is certified, but fits LSA rules.
    The aviator formally known as 89.
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    Farmboy's Avatar
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    I was in Sulphur Springs getting an annual inspection at the factory for our Legend Cub. They had heard that max gross weight would be 1750 lbs. I think any gross weight increase would be interesting for American Legend. They are already doing "custom" build experimental cubs through their owner assist program. They could turn into a true certified custom build shop. It is always neat to see what they are working on.

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    NDRII's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Eddie Foy; The ox is slow but the Earth is patient.

    That is one of my all time favorite movies!!!

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    The AOPA got way out in front of their skis on this one. EAA has been working on increasing the LSA weight limit and other changes for the past few years with no help from the AOPA. The proposed new weight limit has been all over the place, including the possibility of eliminating the weight limit entirely. At this point we do not know where it will end up. If the 3600 pound limit prevails, the best way to think of it is probably that weight will no longer be a limiting factor for LSA's. Other requirements will effectively place a practical upper limit on weight. No Sport Pilots flying C-185s in the likely future.

    As far as getting new planes certified using ASTM standards, that has also been in the works for some time since the FAA has started moving towards performance-based standards rather than prescriptive standards. This is coming as soon as ASTM finished developing the relevant standards. Thank EAA for this one too.

    For experimental builders, the EAA is very close to releasing their new Flight Test Manual which will lead to a new FAA-approved option of using a task-based regimen for Phase I flight testing in lieu of the typical 40 hour requirement. This should happen next year.

    Bottom line is that the EAA is the one who is working with the FAA on a daily basis to make flying regulations better serve us. The AOPA is focused on lobbying legislators, which is an important but very different task. AOPA saw an opportunity to get some publicity and ran with it. unfortunately they didn't really have all the facts.
    Dave Prizio
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  38. #38

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    It was EAA chairman Jack Pelton who made the announcement. Are you saying Mark pushed him into speaking too soon?
    What's a go-around?
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  39. #39

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    What I am saying is that without context the significance of what was said and what is actually going on was lost.
    Dave Prizio
    TX Sport Cub N114DE
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  40. #40
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    I think most of us don't really care much about LSA weight restrictions, that's mainly of interest to manufacturers.
    What is of interest is upsizing the privileges of a "sport pilot" certificate--
    in other words, "will I be able to fly my (insert your airplane here) without a medical?"
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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