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ADS B Out and search and rescue

Joe Wood

FRIEND
Amarillo, Texas
Will having ADS B out be a significant aid for search and rescue operations in the lower 48? From what I’ve read the flight data is sent via satellite, therefore if it’s recorded there should be a record of the flight path.
 
Yes it would be great for search and rescue.
Every flight is recorded. I. Have checked my flight ihistory and every movement was captured, and accurate.


Everyone and anyone can see where you are or have been. Like it or not....
 
Yes it would be great for search and rescue.
Every flight is recorded. I. Have checked my flight ihistory and every movement was captured, and accurate.


Everyone and anyone can see where you are or have been. Like it or not....

And has been used to bust folks for flying when weather didn’t meet minimums...the latest AIA out of Togiak....AWOS and ADS-B data is being used as an enforcement tool to police all airspace. Makes you wonder if asking for a special VRF clearance when viz is at 1/2 mile at the departure point... If I get a ticket from the watchers.....will ATC document the departure authorization?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
And has been used to bust folks for flying when weather didn’t meet minimums...the latest AIA out of Togiak....AWOS and ADS-B data is being used as an enforcement tool to police all airspace. Makes you wonder if asking for a special VRF clearance when viz is at 1/2 mile at the departure point... If I get a ticket from the watchers.....will ATC document the departure authorization?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

They can only bust you if you depart or land in less than VFR conditions and then only upon an "official observation". In flight visibility and cloud clearance is pilot's determination. Once the wheels leave the ground it is your call. So yes, you could get busted but only for departure or landing and only with an official observation. Then again, that is the way it has always been, so nothing new.

https://www.flyingmag.com/everything-you-need-to-know-about-awos-and-asos
 
Will having ADS B out be a significant aid for search and rescue operations in the lower 48? From what I’ve read the flight data is sent via satellite, therefore if it’s recorded there should be a record of the flight path.

Not sure what you mean by “flight data is sent via satellite”.

ADSB is NOT a satellite based system. Your data goes to a gbt, ground based transmitter. I don’t know where the data goes from there. Point is, if you aren’t within range of a GBT, nobody is going to se your data.

MTV
 
Your best bet to be found quickly is a 406 ELT that transmits a GPS position. That piece is satellite based. ADS-B is currently a ground based system. In the future I expect some satellite involvement.
 
I still favor Spidertracks but will be interested in Aireon when they get it going. We'll have to wait and see if they offer a service package that makes sense for provate operators. My Spider is in the Cessna and my wife gets irritated when I fly the Cub without any tracking and notifocations. It's interesting how we become so accustomed to real time info and feel so naked without it.
 
Satellites are up now. Iridium next.

I agree 406 elt


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app

ADS-B satellite access should be operational to NavCanada this fall. BUT, it only tracks the mode-s transponder transmissions, NOT the 978 MHz systems. Even then, to make it useful to yourself, you need to install a power splitter and another (diversity) transponder antenna on top of your aircraft.
 
And has been used to bust folks for flying when weather didn’t meet minimums...the latest AIA out of Togiak....AWOS and ADS-B data is being used as an enforcement tool to police all airspace. ...

The Garmin GDL82 has an "anonymous" mode you can switch on when squawking 1200.
You might be able to foil any tracking for enforcement purposes....but also would foil tracking your location for SAR purposes.
Hmm, decisions, decisions...
 
There are two entries for identification, one is your fed assigned code number, which is just your tail number in hexadecimal. This gets reported to faa no matter what. The other is the flight number, which in our case, is usually also the tail number. (I reserve “Bozo Patrol”....) This is the ID that the web sites that report air traffic for the public use. That is the one that gets muted by activating “anonymous” mode. I think....
 
There are two entries for identification, one is your fed assigned code number, which is just your tail number in hexadecimal. This gets reported to faa no matter what. The other is the flight number, which in our case, is usually also the tail number. (I reserve “Bozo Patrol”....) This is the ID that the web sites that report air traffic for the public use. That is the one that gets muted by activating “anonymous” mode. I think....

My recollection is that the GDL82 manual says that the unit generates a random ICAO mode S code when in anonymous mode. Anonymous mode only works when 1200 is dialed into transponder and only 978 UAT boxes are allowed an anonymous mode. 1090 ES transponders will always show your N number or flight ID.

SAR agencies should really like this feature.
 
It has always been impossible for them to vanish for some time. Malaysian made the mistake of not buying the ground based software, but let me tell you this. For a long time US airlines keep track of their airplanes almost on a minute by minute basis. Position and altitude are transmitted constantly back to dispatch and this data is rarely looked at unless there is a problem. Most of the time the data goes into the digital file for that aircraft. About 20 years ago we had a Captain that come into the Chief Pilot's office complaining that he was not getting enough fuel out of Anchorage and always landing tight on fuel. We pulled the flights he operated and found out that he was giving a 20 minute circular aerial tour of Denali after take off!

In addition a dispatcher can at any time query the aircraft for any number of parameters including fuel on board etc. Finally starting in the mid 90's aircraft began reporting faults. One dark night over the North Atlantic I had a flight attendant spray Lysol on her crew rest bunk which activated smoke detectors which got a Master Warning in the flight deck and all sorts of attention from me. It also got dispatch attention and I received a sat call asking if the flight was OK.

Point is, nothing new here.
 
Not really related, but on the topic of "public" information, you can now pull up as-filed flight plans for any flight (commercial or otherwise) and links to any A/C Reg number, using just your foreflight app. It has been available, but never this easy. I made Polecat Bottoms LLC famous on facebook just the other day this way....

pb
 
So, does it report to dispatch via ground stations or via satellite? Over ocean or wilderness capability?
 
So, does it report to dispatch via ground stations or via satellite? Over ocean or wilderness capability?

Both, depends on the location. If it can transmit via VHF ground station it will, otherwise it goes to sat. Yes over ocean and world wide. I have been at 3 degrees north with full voice and data coverage.

Let me tell you how much data goes out. I got a message once over the Pacific from maintenance asking me to throttle back to "no more than 65%" on an engine. You see the real time data said we had an issue that if left unchecked would result in an engine shut down. By pulling back, we preserved the engine's operational status and landed with two engines running which saved a shutdown report and a demerit on our ETOPS status.
 
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I know someone who was investigated for not flying his 40 hrs off before leaving his flight test area. The FAA had checked his Facebook and claimed he was in Florida when he reached his 40 hrs. They determined this off his Flight Aware data from the ADSB out. Turns out the wrong N number was programmed into the ADSB unit for the first 10 hours of the test flights. Had to send them a logbook entry for an oil change at 38.9 hours from a shop on the other side of the country to clear it up. Big Brother might not be watching but he sure has the means.
 
Clearly an experimental must have electrical issues that prevented the ads-b from working properly. Nothing in the regs says 40 ads-b hours!

It's hard to believe the FAA would pay any attention to accumulated time for enforcement reasons. Airspace violations, yes.
 
Clearly an experimental must have electrical issues that prevented the ads-b from working properly. Nothing in the regs says 40 ads-b hours!

It's hard to believe the FAA would pay any attention to accumulated time for enforcement reasons. Airspace violations, yes.

All it takes is one inspector with a bur up his but.
 
I know someone who was investigated for not flying his 40 hrs off before leaving his flight test area. The FAA had checked his Facebook and claimed he was in Florida when he reached his 40 hrs. They determined this off his Flight Aware data from the ADSB out. Turns out the wrong N number was programmed into the ADSB unit for the first 10 hours of the test flights. Had to send them a logbook entry for an oil change at 38.9 hours from a shop on the other side of the country to clear it up. Big Brother might not be watching but he sure has the means.
This sort of tracking has been happening long before internet was invented. I once received an airways use bill from a small country in the Caribbean for my "Gulfstream N45P". That N number was on my T-50 which hadn't been out of Massachusetts for years. I also received a fuel bill from the midwest for the same N number, for jet fuel claiming it went in my MU-2 and another from Florida for a sales tax. I was under the impression that people were using random N numbers for nefarious reasons. For some reason they chose my number on several different occasions.
 
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