aktango58
FRIEND
Fit in the back??
- Thread starter Eddie Foy
- Start date
Eddie Foy
MEMBER
South Florida
hotrod180
FRIEND
Port Townsend, WA
Upgrades / mods can be a slippery slope.
aktango58
FRIEND
18AA
A reminder, there is a difference in flying floats when your power/weight ratio is low: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVwlodvWh7w
Yes, a Beaver has lots of power, but when loaded it takes some precision to get her off smoothly.
And if you overload:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpmzZX7-VtA
And on landing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzPSjBPAlMQ
Yes, a Beaver has lots of power, but when loaded it takes some precision to get her off smoothly.
And if you overload:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpmzZX7-VtA
And on landing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzPSjBPAlMQ
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BC12D-4-85
SPONSOR
Fairbanks, AK.
The pilot's perspective on the Helio:
https://fearoflanding.com/accidents/moose-hunt-crash-bethel-alaska/
Note the change in direction, gusts, then the lack of wind on the water surface just prior to impact. If the plane was dirty climb rate would be poor.
Gary
aktango58
FRIEND
18AA
And another: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URtNBsxzk-4
Got Procedures? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBkzh0LKe5I
Got Procedures? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBkzh0LKe5I
aktango58
FRIEND
18AA
Them big draggy things under the plane take lots of room when loaded to the gills! You can see the slats go in, then come back out-then the plane begin it's descent. A little less load and things would end different.
Load: Pilot, four hunters with personal gear... plus fuel. 200 lbs per person, 200 in fuel, and "150" in gear, (hmmmmm). That is #1150.
Sometimes technique won't help, you need more lake, wind, or less load; maybe all three. But good technique will make it easier on you and the bird when operating within it's limits.
BC12D-4-85
SPONSOR
Fairbanks, AK.
Plane was dirty and the wind slowed or changed relative direction. They are famous for getting airborne but not climbing well until cleaned up. And PK floats...whatever.
Have a look at the lake when departing (0:30) vs behind the hunters when they are toasting their survival (1:50). Not much wind in the lee of the trees. Slats never stayed in.
Gary
Have a look at the lake when departing (0:30) vs behind the hunters when they are toasting their survival (1:50). Not much wind in the lee of the trees. Slats never stayed in.
Gary
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Draging tha tails without ever finding the sweet spot which would allow it to accelerate.
Did not use proper glassy water landing technique. Landing down hill into glassy water one needs to pay close attention.
Both of these showed ignorance of one's airplane procedures.
sj
Staff member
Northwest Arkansas
To add to this is if you are really planning to use the rating, choose a place/person that spends a lot more time teaching you the techniques (mostly when manuvering/docking on the water and in wind, take off, landing, etc, is easy). I was required to have 15 hours for insurance and it was well worth it - and I did it in a plane I already new so none of that time was wasted learning a new airplane. Also, if you are even considering amphibs, get training on them - not for the "off water" work which is like driving a shopping cart, but because the gear work is really important. We've all seen the videos of folks that forget the gear.
If you just want the rating and to have fun, then Jack Brown's is the place. Just like the PPL being a "license to learn", so is the SES add on.
sj
Eddie Foy
MEMBER
South Florida
SJ,
I have been around flying long enough to know that a fresh rating is as you said, " a license to learn." I don't know if I will use the rating. I am doing it sort of as a bucket list item. Not to brag as one person asked. I have plenty of bragging material in my flying resume if I feel the urge. Brown's is close enough to me that I can spend more time with them if necessary.
It will be a hoot and something I have wanted to do for awhile.
P.S. Sounds like a great place to fill a BFR square.
I have been around flying long enough to know that a fresh rating is as you said, " a license to learn." I don't know if I will use the rating. I am doing it sort of as a bucket list item. Not to brag as one person asked. I have plenty of bragging material in my flying resume if I feel the urge. Brown's is close enough to me that I can spend more time with them if necessary.
It will be a hoot and something I have wanted to do for awhile.
P.S. Sounds like a great place to fill a BFR square.
sj
Staff member
Northwest Arkansas
Good! BTW, I used to be almost 6'4 and 250 (now am 6'2 and 250
) and have lots of time in both seats of my J3. My height is in my torso, not my legs, which helps in one seat, and hurts in the other!Have fun!
sj
aktango58
FRIEND
18AA
you will get hooked! Keep going down and flying floats... with some extra time you will learn the trucks and really understand the 'feel'.
Pete,
Agreed. Simple yet subtle differences make the difference in distance and flying speed. The Beaver in Lake Hood is a prime example of dragging the tails. Never rotated onto a good step. The Beaver from "The Edge" is exactly as you say, glassy water, which many don't respect as they should. For me as a working float guy, glassy is the most scary of all.
As far as the Helio crash, I see the outboard slat come in, then back out. Yes the wind changes... but that is part of flying floats- learning how to read the wind, and relating that to how your performance will change. If the wind is changing, take less stuff.
True guys!On Pete's advice my son, and latterly myself have both learnt on a 108hp supercub,it certainly makes one concentrate on using every piece on info available to get sufficient performance to just get airborne.Have yet to fly our 195 hp cub on floats but I can now see what Pete was getting at.Thanks for the good advice Pete.
Go fly a heavy Skywagon on floats and you learn a few things, too. There's no magic in low performance aircraft. All you have to do in a high performance aircraft to make it low performance is pull the throttle back. But the high performance options open up all kinds of fun. I'd pick a Supercub over a J3 for float ops 100% of the time. The low power thing makes sense for newbie pilots but not for guys who already know their stuff. Finding the sweet spot will take an experienced pilot about two takeoff runs. Done.
spinner2
MEMBER
Montana
I got my last couple of BFRs with these guys in their PA18 on straight floats. Lots of fun and I learned new things each time too. When I got my SES rating I was motivated by the BFR benefit at the time too.
http://www.backcountryflyingexperience.com/
http://www.backcountryflyingexperience.com/
Steve's Aircraft (Brian)
FRIEND
White City, Oregon
The landing crash on glassy water was from the movie MotherLoad... I read that the crash was actually unscripted but the directors decided to leave it in and re wrote the script to keep it...
Brian
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
aktango58
FRIEND
18AA
Sorry, I get Motherload and the Edge confused... could not get through either one.
Yes, unscripted crash, heard various stories including pilot died in it. But others say no.
Bad deal, tore up a nice plane.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Look carefully at the video. The Beaver touched the water on the forward section of it's left float. The right float was still clear of the water. When touching on the forward section such as this the float/water friction pulls bow down with a rapidly increasing amount of water drag. This caused the plane to abruptly turn left which caused the right float to dig in sideways which caused the right wing to dig in. When the right wing tip hit the water, it's drag caused the plane to spin to the right. Splash !
If both floats touched at the same time in this position bow low, the successful recovery may have been possible with prompt full up elevator. Without prompt full up elevator the Beaver could have dug in both bows flipping straight ahead.
Glassy water such as this is more sticky than when there is a small ripple on the surface since the wavelets reduce the amount of water surface.
It doesn't look very glassy to me. It looks like a tight approach with excessive rate of descent, perhaps influenced by where the camera was positioned for the shot. It was scripted to be spectacular. He forced the landing. It also appears there was a slight slip on short final.
hotrod180
FRIEND
Port Townsend, WA
Curious what you did your MES in?
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
There is a flying 9th one in the Philippines.
hotrod180
FRIEND
Port Townsend, WA
That was one of my guesses, or a Widgeon or maybe an Apache on floats.
FWIW I believe there's a Twin Bee in a hangar at Oak Harbor airport KOKH,
don't think it's flown in years.
What a shame....
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
This is the FAA's list of the remaining eight on the US registry: https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Mms_Results.aspx?Mmstxt=8640202&conVal=0&PageNo=1 Even though the last serial number was 24, there were only 23 built. The company owner was superstitious, so # 13 was not built. Also another very abbreviated story from my repertoire, the engine which is in my Cub came from the Twin Bee which algonquin used for his training and check ride.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Now that is interesting, I wonder which one it is as there are none registered in Washington? A man in the Seattle area bought one new and was the only customer who traded in an original Seabee. I can't remember his name. It would be in my logbook somewhere as I taught him to fly it. As I recall it would have been one of the earliest ones built #5 maybe?
ps. Found him. His name was H. Leanard and the airplane was serial #8, N9503U. That's the one which is registered in NH. So the mystery still exists.
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