Remodeling a Hangar: Suggestions Requested

[46 Cub]

80x100? Holy crap, that's big! How do you heat it?

I bought it with a 1/3 partner.. was thinking of building a 60x60 but no land available.. this came available and my partner helped me make it real.
What I didn't know is that turned out to be least expensive option because it's big enough for our needs and still let some space for renters. The hangar is it's own LLC and does not generate any cash expense to either of us, even while providing space for our own airplanes.
For heat we started with oil... there was an on-demand water heater for the floor and a new 250K air heater. We ran the water heater at 60 constantly and that worked very well for about 50 in the hangar. If we wanted 65 in the winter that would cost about 2K per month.
Now we have natural gas. About 1/2 the floor areas are functional (prior owners let some freeze). We keep it at 58 on the floor year around with a single 250K burner. This burner also runs a couple of air heaters, so when anyone wants warmer air they can just turn up the blast. The highest month we have experienced with about 20F outside average is $600. We have 4 renters and their payments offset all costs. The point of this is that I had no idea when I bought it, but a bigger hangar turned out to be less out of pocket than a small one, because even one renter is a hassle, so you might as well have enough to make it worth it.. and four of them are really no problem.
For Mr. Stewart.. I saw your post and it reminded me to look at my GoJacks.. Mine are the 6313 model with #1575 per unit allowed.. they are 14" center to center when fully collapsed. I love 'em except for the aforementioned limitations. I would really like to hear from Mr. Mike about his ideas for an elegant way to make them "all purpose" I haven't come up with one yet... 2x4s spit right out.. I can tell you that. Most of the planes in the hangar work well with them but the amphibs and the wheel skis don't play well.

[Steve Pierce]

My hanger floor is just concrete. After working on an epoxy painted floor for years I would like it but not worth the expence. I like the brightness and ease of cleaning up oil etc.

[OLDCROWE]

My hanger floor is just concrete. After working on an epoxy painted floor for years I would like it but not worth the expence. I like the brightness and ease of cleaning up oil etc.

Epoxy paint would be cheap compared to the move it all out and the prep-cost...

[stewartb]

So with help from Google I see there are breathable epoxies now. Interesting. I don't expect to add it to my 7 year old floor because it isn't important enough to warrant the inconvenience and expense for prep but for a guy in Randy's situation who's already doing floor prep it may be a worthwhile option.

[OLDCROWE]

So with help from Google I see there are breathable epoxies now. Interesting. I don't expect to add it to my 7 year old floor because it isn't important enough to warrant the inconvenience and expense for prep but for a guy in Randy's situation who's already doing floor prep it may be a worthwhile option.

Interesting.

[WindOnHisNose]

I have a question regarding the RapidAir system. I am leaning toward that.

Can someone take a photo of the air drops? I have been planning to run the lines before covering the walls, but don't have a concept of how that could be done in terms of positioning the drops. Also, my son expressed concern that he has seen the connections become loosened, necessitating replacement...which would be a real drag if the system is run behind the walls.

With regard to the floor, I am currently leaning toward having the linoleum removed, ground down and polished...at least before I read results of your investigation, Stewart. Breathable epoxy might be a nice thing to explore. Thanks!

Randy

[Steve Pierce]

I would not run the air lines behind the walls if it were me. I had one leak where we didn't slide the tubing far enough into the compression fitting in the over 2 years I have had the system. I still feel better with them outside the walls where accessible. I am more of a function Iver form kinda guy.

[Charlie Longley]

My hangar has a 60 foot wide door but they slide on tracks. Is it economically possible to put in a bifold door? It’s a wood frame building.

[stewartb]

Hangar or a commercial shop. The comments can be divided into those categories. I’ve had production shops all my adult life. Never had an airplane hangar before. I don’t want my hangar to be a shop. I’m more interested in keeping it clean and inviting. I’d like my wife to enjoy being there, and that won’t happen if it smells and feels like a shop. I’ll get the dirty work done somewhere else.

[Gordon Misch]

No, keep your air lines out of the walls. Problems will be easily correctable and modifications will also be easy. Anything that might, just might, want modification should be accessible.

[skywagon8a]

My hangar has a 60 foot wide door but they slide on tracks. Is it economically possible to put in a bifold door? It’s a wood frame building.

There are bi-fold doors which have their own support structure and basically just fasten to the outside of the building. Wood frame would be fine. Also the one piece hydraulic doors will work on your hangar.

[Farmboy]

Higher Power is a good example of a free standing hydraulic door.
https://youtu.be/r6nqeCK_IYc


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[courierguy]

There are bi-fold doors which have their own support structure and basically just fasten to the outside of the building. Wood frame would be fine. Also the one piece hydraulic doors will work on your hangar.

You better look real good at adding a Hydro Swing type door to a wood hangar, for sure it can be done, I have one on my shop. When they are open they put a LOT of stress on the framing, up high. But I tied in things extra good when framing it, in anticipation of using the door. Even then, after a couple years, I had to add some steel flat bar to the door frame top center, running clear across the ceiling to the other end of the shop, as it was wanting to pull away. It was cracking my sheetrock ceiling, so I had a good heads up of the stresses involved, and saved it by the fix before things got worse. My other Hydro on my all concrete (earth sheltered) hangar is rock solid.

[Farmboy]

Like I think Steve posted, line drops with a hose reel works well. Pex tubing and electrical boxes secured the terminations.





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[stewartb]

You better look real good at adding a Hydro Swing type door to a wood hangar, for sure it can be done, I have one on my shop. When they are open they put a LOT of stress on the framing, up high. But I tied in things extra good when framing it, in anticipation of using the door. Even then, after a couple years, I had to add some steel flat bar to the door frame top center, running clear across the ceiling to the other end of the shop, as it was wanting to pull away. It was cracking my sheetrock ceiling, so I had a good heads up of the stresses involved, and saved it by the fix before things got worse. My other Hydro on my all concrete (earth sheltered) hangar is rock solid.

https://www.hydraulicdoors.com/building-details/

[46 Cub]

My hangar has a 60 foot wide door but they slide on tracks. Is it economically possible to put in a bifold door? It’s a wood frame building.

After reading about them on this site, I looked into the Higher Power doors. A friend tried one before me. Now I have a 55x18' clear higher door and love it. No stress on the building, max head clearance (my reason for wanting it), and works well. Lifts straight up first foot so ice at the bottom outside isn't a problem. We removed a bi-fold to install the Higher Power door.

[KevinJ]

52’ x 14’ Higher Power door installed in my hangar earlier this year. Works great, no complaints and dead simple

[46 Cub]

Hangar or a commercial shop. The comments can be divided into those categories. I’ve had production shops all my adult life. Never had an airplane hangar before. I don’t want my hangar to be a shop. I’m more interested in keeping it clean and inviting. I’d like my wife to enjoy being there, and that won’t happen if it smells and feels like a shop. I’ll get the dirty work done somewhere else.

I think Stewart hit the nail on the head. My hangar is commercial, on any given day smells like carb cleaner, solvent, paint stripper, paint.... I work on my airplanes there. Its my dream hangar.. But for others would not be suitable at all. I admire those hangars that look like living rooms.... living the dream for some folks.. I would need two hangars to have one like that, but I certainly understand those who choose that route. That's the beauty of it.. one can gather a bunch of ideas and then proceed to do whatever one wants.
I sure do gain from the input I read on this site though.

[hotrod180]

My hangar has a 60 foot wide door but they slide on tracks. Is it economically possible to put in a bifold door? It’s a wood frame building.

I have rolling doors on my own t-sized hangar and like them.
Don't want or feel the need for anything "better".
Among other reasons, although it doesn't happen often,
the first time the power's out and you need to open your bifold or hydro-swing doors,
you'll wish you still had rollers.

[Charlie Longley]

I have rolling doors on my own t-sized hangar and like them.
Don't want or feel the need for anything "better".
Among other reasons, although it doesn't happen often,
the first time the power's out and you need to open your bifold or hydro-swing doors,
you'll wish you still had rollers.

You know how big of a guy I am since we’ve meet. Sometimes it takes almost all my strength to move my sliding doors. I am not getting any younger...

[Farmboy]

If in an area prone to power outages the 12vdc backup system is nice option from higher power.


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[46 Cub]

I have rolling doors on my own t-sized hangar and like them.
Don't want or feel the need for anything "better".
Among other reasons, although it doesn't happen often,
the first time the power's out and you need to open your bifold or hydro-swing doors,
you'll wish you still had rollers.

As an available option, a 12 volt battery will open our Higher Power door. Flip a switch and hook up the jumpers... Just so the info is out there...

[Steve Pierce]

I hate my cold air leaking, heavy sliding doors and looked at the Power Lift door after someone at our airport built a hanger with one. Impressive but not enough for me to spend the money. Maybe one day.

[courierguy]

I keep putting off rigging my two Hydro Swing doors with aux. hydraulic lines that would allow me to use my tractor's hydraulic system to open them, in case of a power outage combined with a need to get the plane out. I'll probably wait until an approaching wildfire takes out the grid power, and I lose the plane because I couldn't fly it away to safety, then do it for the next plane and hangar.

For this all to work, it'd have to flyable WX, I'd have to be there, etc.etc., my reasoning for not getting around to it. Point being hydraulic doors can be self powered with a little fore thought when the grid goes down in numerous ways. Non powered sliding track doors are fine, good enough anyway, until you get in severe climes, but a real PITA in snow and ice.

I think a one piece hydraulic door is about the best for not having airleaks, mine are anyway. They have 2" of urethane foam sprayed on the inside, and I was able to cut my mandoor and windows right where I wanted them, the main reason I went that route.

[hotrod180]

You know how big of a guy I am since we’ve meet. Sometimes it takes almost all my strength to move my sliding doors. I am not getting any younger...

Maybe your door rollers & tracks just need some TLC.
Wooden buildings suffer some from warpage over time too,
so sometimes door-to-framing/siding clearances have to be adjusted.

[stewartb]

Hey, Randy, how's the project going? We need an update. Here's some incentive. The Wildcat moved indoors today. For the next couple of months it has some pretty sexy company, too. Life is good!

[mike mcs repair]

Hey, Randy, how's the project going? We need an update. Here's some incentive. The Wildcat moved indoors today. For the next couple of months it has some pretty sexy company, too. Life is good!

maybe you need to add a helicopter to your fleet too....

[SteveE]

maybe you need to add a helicopter to your fleet too....

That’s not a real helicopter.


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[WindOnHisNose]

Hangar or a commercial shop. The comments can be divided into those categories. I’ve had production shops all my adult life. Never had an airplane hangar before. I don’t want my hangar to be a shop. I’m more interested in keeping it clean and inviting. I’d like my wife to enjoy being there, and that won’t happen if it smells and feels like a shop. I’ll get the dirty work done somewhere else.

Geez, Stewart, has Julie been talking with you?!!!

Randy

[WindOnHisNose]

Well, folks, it has been a bit of a frustrating experience thus far.

First, I came down with a pretty serious illness that had me on major narcotics and nothing to eat for 7 days in late September. It kicked my butt, I lost a lot of weight and strength (just got back to the gym this morning, in fact) and I wasn't able to practice medicine much less deal with the hangar.

Second, living on an airpark with a bunch of rules can be challenging...as many of you have told me. Access to the hangar has to be via the space between the owner's house and the property line and this makes it difficult if there are trees of significant size/height (which there are). This adversely impacted installing foam insulation. I had arranged for this to be installed today, as a matter of fact, and yesterday when they called to ask for access to the hangar they had not been made aware of the difficulty of driving a 30,000 lbs box truck that is 13 feet high, 9 feet wide and 36 feet long on the grass beside our house...they had assumed there is a driveway available to access the hangar (the gentleman who I met with at the hangar before my illness 4 weeks ago made the assumption re: access. I am now awaiting a call from a foamer who allegedly uses a trailer which can be pulled behind his pickup truck.

Then there is the juggling of the schedules of the plumber, the electrician, the sheetrock person, the steel person, etc. This project has given me a much greater appreciation for those of you who are contractors or who have been general contractors for your own projects.

Finished at this point is the wiring before the foam is installed. Finished is installation of 3 new access doors and 2 windows. Finished is framing for the bathroom/shower. Finished is the removal of an inoperative heater, and a new heater has been ordered. Plumbing will be accomplished within a week. Sheetrocking the upper 3/4 of the 13 ft walls will be finished at the end of next week, as will be installation of the metal walls. LED lights have been wired and will be installed next week.

The floor is another issue, in that it is not inexpensive to have linoleum tile removed and ground down to the cement, then polished vs epoxied. I am considering leaving the tile alone for now.

...and then there is my medical practice, which is in high gear and I have been struggling to catch up...

I'll shut off the whining now.

I did fly the super cub Sunday for the first time in over a month and it felt great!

I'll put some photos up soon. Thanks for the contributions here, as many of your suggestions are being/will be incorporated.

Take care,

Randy

[cubdriver2]

Well, folks, it has been a bit of a frustrating experience thus far.

First, I came down with a pretty serious illness that had me on major narcotics and nothing to eat for 7 days in late September. It kicked my butt, I lost a lot of weight and strength (just got back to the gym this morning, in fact) and I wasn't able to practice medicine much less deal with the hangar.

Second, living on an airpark with a bunch of rules can be challenging...as many of you have told me. Access to the hangar has to be via the space between the owner's house and the property line and this makes it difficult if there are trees of significant size/height (which there are). This adversely impacted installing foam insulation. I had arranged for this to be installed today, as a matter of fact, and yesterday when they called to ask for access to the hangar they had not been made aware of the difficulty of driving a 30,000 lbs box truck that is 13 feet high, 9 feet wide and 36 feet long on the grass beside our house...they had assumed there is a driveway available to access the hangar (the gentleman who I met with at the hangar before my illness 4 weeks ago made the assumption re: access. I am now awaiting a call from a foamer who allegedly uses a trailer which can be pulled behind his pickup truck.

Then there is the juggling of the schedules of the plumber, the electrician, the sheetrock person, the steel person, etc. This project has given me a much greater appreciation for those of you who are contractors or who have been general contractors for your own projects.

Finished at this point is the wiring before the foam is installed. Finished is installation of 3 new access doors and 2 windows. Finished is framing for the bathroom/shower. Finished is the removal of an inoperative heater, and a new heater has been ordered. Plumbing will be accomplished within a week. Sheetrocking the upper 3/4 of the 13 ft walls will be finished at the end of next week, as will be installation of the metal walls. LED lights have been wired and will be installed next week.

The floor is another issue, in that it is not inexpensive to have linoleum tile removed and ground down to the cement, then polished vs epoxied. I am considering leaving the tile alone for now.

...and then there is my medical practice, which is in high gear and I have been struggling to catch up...

I'll shut off the whining now.

I did fly the super cub Sunday for the first time in over a month and it felt great!

I'll put some photos up soon. Thanks for the contributions here, as many of your suggestions are being/will be incorporated.

Take care,

Randy

Hey, cheer up Doc. What your doing to your hangar is just like childbirth. After all the stretching and remodeling happens that area will be a fun place to play at again someday .....

Glenn

[stewartb]

Get better. Nobody will recognize a skinny Santa.

[aktango58]

Well, folks, it has been a bit of a frustrating experience thus far.

First, I came down with a pretty serious illness that had me on major narcotics and nothing to eat for 7 days in late September. It kicked my butt, I lost a lot of weight and strength (just got back to the gym this morning, in fact) and I wasn't able to practice medicine much less deal with the hangar.

Randy

Sounds like a severe case of BeenaroundEatonitis.

Cheer up, we have been waiting a couple of weeks for the first pour on our floor. The couple of days of weather we could pour we were not first on the list. The rest of the time have been rain. Snow is coming, don't know how long until we have to give up until spring.

I am seriously considering an epoxy floor. I like the light and cleaning ability.

[46 Cub]

It looks like that floor isn't so bad. It certainly looks like something you could live with while doing everything else and then do later.. Heck maybe have them peel up those few loose ones and replace just them? I know everyone has different standards, and I really do like perfect,...but one of the hardest things I've tried to learn in life is to learn to live with less than perfect. Not there yet but trying.. I think any clean bright smooth hangar floor is living the dream. It's all gravy from there.

[aktango58]

Thought on air lines-

Copper pipe looks very nice on the wall, and is good for air and easy to find.

[mvivion]

Man, you are waaaaay tougher than most of us to be juggling all this at once! And getting er done! Hang in there, Randy, it’ll all be worth it in the long run.

MTV

[stewartb]

Geez, Stewart, has Julie been talking with you?!!!

Randy

Me living with my airplanes is my wife’s dream, not mine. The whole hangar house thing was her doing. My hangar is attached to the house. That makes it harder to deal with fumes and a gunky floor. Making our home a place she enjoys has always been my priority. Happy wife, happy life. Works for me.

I expect to have a furnished corner in the hangar with comfy seating and a TV and my elliptical. My vision of the ideal man cave. Make no mistake, I’ll enjoy a clean hangar, too.

[OLDCROWE]

That’s not a real helicopter.


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Why, won't it fling parts far enough to suit you?

[hotrod180]

That’s not a real helicopter. ….

Neither is this one but it looks like it'd be a kick in the ass to fly around in.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...on/1726385002/

[stewartb]

So... Dr. Randy... Progress report? Are you in yet?