I’d guess the header tanks should cope with typical unusual attitudes for 5 minutes or so, how nose down and prolonged do you mean?
Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app
Leaking port fuel tank on landing and left rudder slip
- Thread starter Philly5G
- Start date
I’d guess the header tanks should cope with typical unusual attitudes for 5 minutes or so, how nose down and prolonged do you mean?
Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Yes.
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
Typically that solenoid is right next to the battery box, assuming your battery is still in this bay. Where it's currently mounted, it may come into contact with the header tank during a crash. Bad stuff will happen.
Web
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
Philly
Do you have the original electrical system with a start solenoid and fused master circuit or has some one added a master solenoid in place of the fuse block?
Web
Do you have the original electrical system with a start solenoid and fused master circuit or has some one added a master solenoid in place of the fuse block?
Web
Thanks for the warning of “bad stuff happening” mate!!!
It’s got the original system I think, with the circuit breakers on the side panel with the on/off/on master switch just in front of the door, and the 2^30 amp master fuses in the battery bay, plus the original generator charging system, now with a solid state voltage reg as discussed in another of my threads
Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
The two 30 amp fuses and the master switch form the 'master circuit' on this system. That verifies that the solenoid in the pic is the start solenoid. This should be mounted right next to the battery box. As the cable between the positive post on the battery and the start solenoid is live at all times, it needs to be as short as possible. A short cable is a smaller target to be affected during a crash. That's also the reasoning behind keeping the solenoid close to the battery on this cable and the fuses close to the battery on the master circuit. When the solenoid is open or if the fuses blow, there is less wire with power applied.
Web
Web
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
The header is in the correct position. Don't move it! If you move that, you may effect the fuel flow.
I'd recommend moving the solenoid back to the battery box location, or at least farther away from the header tank.
Web
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
Can you give us a better pic of the battery location?
Web
Web
Will do mate, later in the week. To avoid posting a duplicate thread, do you know if there’s one that describes the best way to replace the PA-12 Torque Tube arm to the first wing turnbuckle aileron cables, whilst the plane is covered please?
Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
This picture seems to indicate that the battery is well below the solenoid perhaps as much as a foot. Moving it to a position next to the battery will provide a lot of distance from the header tank and the plumbing.
Stew
FRIEND
Haywards Heath, UK
PA18 Fuel System
When I took my PA18 apart, the fuel system was very much standard and in line with the attached images.
Very good at spending other peoples money but now you have the fuel system in focus, just take a look at the "Steve's Aircraft" Gascolator". I brought one and it is great, he has the STC for it and you can fit it to a UK registered aircraft as long as he supplies a 8130-3. The old gascolator bail now has to be wire locked and also inspected regularly and this new gascolator makes that so much easier.
https://www.stevesaircraft.com/gascolator.php
Kind regards
Stew
When I took my PA18 apart, the fuel system was very much standard and in line with the attached images.
Very good at spending other peoples money but now you have the fuel system in focus, just take a look at the "Steve's Aircraft" Gascolator". I brought one and it is great, he has the STC for it and you can fit it to a UK registered aircraft as long as he supplies a 8130-3. The old gascolator bail now has to be wire locked and also inspected regularly and this new gascolator makes that so much easier.
https://www.stevesaircraft.com/gascolator.php
Kind regards
Stew
Attachments
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
Kind of what I was thinking. Just want to see a picture of the layout to make sure.
Web
Hi Web, here are some pics of the battery compartment, I'm looking forward to your thoughts
Cheers
Attachments
wireweinie
FOUNDER
Palmer, AK
Move the solenoid to the floor right below the positive terminal of the battery. This will keep the 'hot' lead from the positive post to the solenoid as short as possible. Then mount the fuse block right next to it. If you can't mount it there, mount it right on the side of the battery box.
Both of these items should be away from the header tank.
Web
Both of these items should be away from the header tank.
Web
UPDATE!!!
I now have the tank back from the tank menders!! They pressure tested it and found 2 leaks, plus a slight driblble from the filler cap. They confirmed it's tin and therefore soldered the repairs. They also cut a further hole for access, cleaned out the inside of the tank completely, removed the filler type repairs that were there before, repaired the access hole, pressure tested again and painted the whole thing matt black. It looks pretty good to me and cost £440 in total.
I've refitted it, using new vent and fuel pipes and managed to relocate and tighten down the tank straps by myself, using slightly longer screws than were on before, so I could get the nut started. I've made 2 new neck filler grommet rubbers (Vitron sheet) which are now compressed between the tank hatch and the tank, when the filler cap is located, which SHOULD allow any fuel coming out of the cap vent to run over the wing, rather than into and under it as it may have done before, as there wasn't a proper neck seal there before. I've also made new cap seal rubbers also from Vitron sheet.
Putting the fuel gauge back in was easier than expected and I've replaced all the old tank hatch and wing fairing screws (1/3 of which I had to Dremel out anyway!!) with stainless steel ones sitting on nylon washers. I've ordered some heat activated v section rubber edging for the panels, which obviously protects the edges and should also help with sealing against fuel spills. I've used this extensively before on the Pitts and Andreasson and looks pretty good
I tested the tank for leaks with a gallon or so of fuel and lots of sloshing before fitting and a gallon or so after fitting and no leaks I've run the engine and driven around on the ground for about 30 minutes and apart from a couple of slow wind downs in the first few minutes (I'm guessing air pockets) the engine's running fine
Would I have done anything differently, knowing what I know now? I'd have done the filler neck grommets and cap seal rubbers and re flown before sending the tank away, although because there were always some little bits of particles when checking the fuel drain (absolutely NOTHING in the fuel when checking post repair!!) I'd have still sent it away, even if the big leak had gone away I'd also have refitted the tank hatch and checked the alignment of the neck filler against the filler cut-out BEFORE tightening down the tank straps, but that only cost me another 15 minutes of loosening, shuffling the tank and then retightening, so not the end of the world anyway
So, hopefully leak free now (I'll report back when test flown) AND I've learned more about the Cub and basically, removing the tanks isn't much of a big deal AND as I won't be having to cut out a bunch of rusted up screws next time, it'll be even easier
Any questions, please ask and thanks for all your support when I was in the dark days of trying to figure all this out
Cheers
Philly
I now have the tank back from the tank menders!! They pressure tested it and found 2 leaks, plus a slight driblble from the filler cap. They confirmed it's tin and therefore soldered the repairs. They also cut a further hole for access, cleaned out the inside of the tank completely, removed the filler type repairs that were there before, repaired the access hole, pressure tested again and painted the whole thing matt black. It looks pretty good to me and cost £440 in total.
I've refitted it, using new vent and fuel pipes and managed to relocate and tighten down the tank straps by myself, using slightly longer screws than were on before, so I could get the nut started. I've made 2 new neck filler grommet rubbers (Vitron sheet) which are now compressed between the tank hatch and the tank, when the filler cap is located, which SHOULD allow any fuel coming out of the cap vent to run over the wing, rather than into and under it as it may have done before, as there wasn't a proper neck seal there before. I've also made new cap seal rubbers also from Vitron sheet.
Putting the fuel gauge back in was easier than expected and I've replaced all the old tank hatch and wing fairing screws (1/3 of which I had to Dremel out anyway!!) with stainless steel ones sitting on nylon washers. I've ordered some heat activated v section rubber edging for the panels, which obviously protects the edges and should also help with sealing against fuel spills. I've used this extensively before on the Pitts and Andreasson and looks pretty good
I tested the tank for leaks with a gallon or so of fuel and lots of sloshing before fitting and a gallon or so after fitting and no leaks
I've run the engine and driven around on the ground for about 30 minutes and apart from a couple of slow wind downs in the first few minutes (I'm guessing air pockets) the engine's running fine Would I have done anything differently, knowing what I know now? I'd have done the filler neck grommets and cap seal rubbers and re flown before sending the tank away, although because there were always some little bits of particles when checking the fuel drain (absolutely NOTHING in the fuel when checking post repair!!) I'd have still sent it away, even if the big leak had gone away
I'd also have refitted the tank hatch and checked the alignment of the neck filler against the filler cut-out BEFORE tightening down the tank straps, but that only cost me another 15 minutes of loosening, shuffling the tank and then retightening, so not the end of the world anyway So, hopefully leak free now (I'll report back when test flown) AND I've learned more about the Cub and basically, removing the tanks isn't much of a big deal AND as I won't be having to cut out a bunch of rusted up screws next time, it'll be even easier
Any questions, please ask and thanks for all your support when I was in the dark days of trying to figure all this out
Cheers
Philly
Attachments
Last edited:
Thanks texmex I've now found that Service Bulletin and we're having a go at that and if still no joy, I'll be Dakota's Cub's newest customer for their selector :smile:
Texmex you ROCK!!!!!
I applied the Piper Service Bulletin to the Fuel Selector today, really easy to do (having drained both tanks and done a fuel flow test BEFORE) just needed a scotchbrite pad, some WD40, a cleaning cloth and the grease that Piper recommended, took about 20 minutes and I've attached the before and after pics. I applied a light smear of grease to the conical valve bit and plenty to the shaft. Put the valve back into the valve body and then slotted the detent washer into its groove, added the brass washers and spring and screwed on the retaining cover. Slipping on the selector handle and needle to check all was working immediately proved what a MASSIVE difference this SB made and it literally felt like a brand new valve, very easy to turn and the detents feel very clicky and precise!!!
Tightened down the cover, replaced the fuel selector plate (with new stainless steel screws and nylon washers) and screwed on the selector lever and all still worked BEAUTIFULLY!!
Put fuel back into both tanks and turned on the selector, slight scare with just a trickle from the left tank into the bucket initially, which I guess was due to the header filling up, but plenty of flow from the right and then plenty of flow from the left. Redid the fuel flow test and similar flows, slight difference I guess due to different amounts of fuel in the tanks and therefore greater/lesser head of fuel. Reconnected the gascolator to the carburettor and ran the engine and drove around on the ground for a bit, changing tanks for fun as the selector now has the "smooth as greased silk" user experience I'm looking for
which is light years away from the almost impossible to turn and no real detent feeling of before So, I TOTALLY RECOMMEND doing this service bulletin and I won't hesitate to do it again should the fuel valve stiffen up
THANK YOU TexMex!!!!
Attachments
Last edited:
mike mcs repair
Registered User
chugiak AK
just replace the valve with new style... if you use dakota cubs you also get a both position.... they have no issues like this...
also if you are good, you can do that valve SB cleanup job without draining plane...
one guy holds a float ball over valve while the other guy cleans and lubes it....
dicey operation... ripe to make you drop parts....
also if you are good, you can do that valve SB cleanup job without draining plane...
one guy holds a float ball over valve while the other guy cleans and lubes it....
dicey operation... ripe to make you drop parts....
mike mcs repair
Registered User
chugiak AK
Thanks Mike
Yes, I really like the look of the Dakota Cub valve and if the SB hadn't produced such great results I'd be ordering one right now, but at over £350+ landed cost AND the shipping time, having a go at fixing and living with the original Piper valve is pretty compelling......... we'll see how long the SB works its magic for Thanks for this Denny!! I did the Piper pull and lube SB today and my fuel valve is now also as smooth as silk
Thanks again mate
Where are you based tm? I’m guessing not the US?
Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app
Did you fix the October leaks, or did they go away by themselves in November?!!
Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app
