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Thread: Who is a good shop for a Prop governor?

  1. #1
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    Who is a good shop for a Prop governor?

    The other night up over the Harding Ice Field (6000 ft) my RPM started to creep up. I kept pulling it down, but it slowly won the contest and was at 2500 rpm with the knob pulled all the way out. Of course I throttled back and slowly headed for home. ( oil temp ok and oil pressure OK, fairly new oil and filter, engine at 118 smoh)
    And of course it suddenly started to work on its own a few minutes later.

    My IA and I later did all sorts of things trying to get the symptom to repeat but nothing happened. A couple other flights were fine as well.

    Then last night it started again. I kept on pulling and it kept slowly creeping up in rpm. And when I was back on the lake I had to pull the controls WAY OUT to get the blades to twist at 2000 RPM.

    My current Gov is a Woodward A210680, that has been rebuilt a couple times. I am running a P-Ponked engine and a 3 bladed Hartzell. I think I read someplace or another that the A210680 was OK for the 470 engine case at 2600 rpm, but after being Ponked with the 520 jugs, the new RPM red line was moved up to 2700.

    Anyway I need to find a good shop that will swap me out for a rebuilt Prop Gov before I loose any more money. Any good shop suggestions...???

  2. #2
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    your crankshaft is cracked, (spiral cracked through oil transfer hole to oil transfer collar)... pull oil screen, you will probably be sad then... it will "OPEN" the crack up and dump the oil that should be going to the propeller...

    somewhere on here I shared our story on this... after original flat pitch event that left plane stranded on a sand blow at Bible camp by Bacharoff lake... our last test flight(3rd test flight, just around patch, small) and after finally swapping governors, it really cracked, went over 3000 RPM, shook and threw off alternator belt....

    you may be able to stand in front of plane and pull prop forward and aft and see crank flex.... EDIT: AFTER that exciting 3rd flight this was observable... and THEN we pulled oil screen and it was PACKED with metal... so we got to do an engine swap there.. NOT fun loading and unloading 520 engines into/out of 185 with a few guys.....

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    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    or the tolerance was too tight on oil transfer collar and that has burnt up/open (which also will cause crank to crack at hole)

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    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    I just pulled the oil filter and there was Zero metal or anything in the screen. I had no fluctuation of oil pressure or temps.
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    I would trust Mike on his cautionary statements, but as to the specific question.. I use Wings West Governors (in Oregon) for the governors on my Continental engines and have been very happy with them. Jerry at Dominion recommended them to me..

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    http://www.pcu5000.com
    We ran these on the 3 company 206's and I never had to mess with them. Worked great.

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    I totally second what 77 said. If yours is not a pcu5000 buy a new one and go from there..

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    How does a guy differentiate between a sick oil transfer collar and a sick governor?

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    How does a guy differentiate between a sick oil transfer collar and a sick governor?
    While ever mindful of Mike's sage advice, I'd overnight a new governor and try it. Would figure if it didn't fix it then I was toast.. but would at least have a fresh governor to go on my new engine...

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    I recall a couple of bulletins over the years about big Continentals and transfer collars. Was just wondering.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    I recall a couple of bulletins over the years about big Continentals and transfer collars. Was just wondering.
    Understood. I actually don't know either other than the (non conclusive) shotgun method I mentioned... I too would be interested in learning how to diagnose the difference. (Given the absence of any metal in the screen/filter - though I'd think a toasted collar would show bronze metal)

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    I use southwest aero in Washington. They can quick turn a governor pretty fast. I have been using them for Over ten years with no issues. My last one even with the body being totally worn out was about $950. The PCU is great as well if u just want a new one. They are close to $2000. Dominion and southwest stock them. swagvnr dot com

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    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    MIke where can I find that story about your crank adventure?

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    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Clark View Post
    MIke where can I find that story about your crank adventure?
    it's on here a few places

    heres two
    http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post465743

    http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...ll=1&styleid=8

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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    .. this one with crank issue had 'lost' engine logs, at less than 10 hrs of our use we had to put 6 jugs on(previous ash damage), then this 180 hrs and a month or so later... ugggg think that logs were lost due to a prop strike record
    Mike, Are you aware of many of these cracked Continental cranks? It seems to me that a previous prop strike would most likely account for the cracking as you have described. S2D had the same trouble recently and found it was a defective prop.
    N1PA

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    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    I pulled my prop gov and sent it off to Wings West in Washington. They rebuilt it in 2011 and I gave them a long letter and phone call. The engine filter was free of any metal or anything, and the screen for the Governor was clean as well. The Gov is an old Woodward A210680. I asked them to bench test it first.
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  19. #19
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    I talked with Tracy at Wings West. It turns out my governor had man-made problems. So she worked it over and it should be here next week. I HOPE.
    I will be testing it with my prop strobe tach.
    Last edited by Alex Clark; 08-11-2018 at 03:48 PM.

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    Just curious, for the IO470F, what is better the Mac C290D2, C290D3, Woodward A210452 or the new PCU5000?

  21. #21
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    I want a new PCU5000 after researching them. But I want to make sure that my problems go away after having the Woodward reset.

    Of course if the Woodward works after throwing $400 at it... Will I want to blow $2000 later on, knowing that the old Gov is working ok... ????
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  22. #22
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Governors are probably one of the most dependable and reliable accessories on the airplane as long as someone who isn't supposed to doesn't monkey with them.
    N1PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Clark View Post
    I want a new PCU5000 after researching them. But I want to make sure that my problems go away after having the Woodward reset.

    Of course if the Woodward works after throwing $400 at it... Will I want to blow $2000 later on, knowing that the old Gov is working ok... ????
    The attraction of the PCU 5000 series (there are different part numbers for different applications) is that the overhaul/repair costs will generally be lower the next time you need work done to them. With the PCU (since they start new) the next likely work due will be at overhaul time.
    To answer the quoted question... If everything works after blowing $400 (lucky not $1100) then why would you buy another then? Wait until the next failure to do so.
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  24. #24
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    Well the old Woodward governor is back and everything seems to be working fine. We shall see. Gotta make up the lost revenue and hope word of mouth about the cancellations does not cost me even more.
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    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Holy smoke, a one-week turnaround including shipping!
    Did they overhaul your governor, or was this an exchange deal?
    If it was an overhaul, that's extraordinary service IMHO.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  26. #26
    Alex Clark's Avatar
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    Not really an overhaul I over-night Fd-Exed it there with a good letter and a couple phone calls. They 2 day mailed it back. And yes it was OUTSTANDING SERVICE. The speed was turned down, a couple O rings and a seal were replaced. I HIGHLY recommend doing business with WINGS WEST.
    https://www.wingswestgovernors.com/
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    S2D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Clark View Post
    Not really an overhaul I over-night Fd-Exed it there with a good letter and a couple phone calls. They 2 day mailed it back. And yes it was OUTSTANDING SERVICE. The speed was turned down, a couple O rings and a seal were replaced. I HIGHLY recommend doing business with WINGS WEST.
    https://www.wingswestgovernors.com/
    Ditto !! Have used them for years.

    I had a thread not long ago with similiar problems.

    I think there are 4 basic causes associated with this issue.

    1. Leaking transfer collar (if you find my thread there was a post of how to check for that )

    2. Cracked Crank (probably give the same indication as a leaking transfer collar, but either way the case has to be split)

    3. Faulty Governor

    4. Faulty Propeller

    Mine turned out to be a faulty propeller.
    I may be wrong but that probably won't stop me from arguing about it.
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