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Thread: Engine woes

  1. #41

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    I'll pull the mags and look them over, the engine has a weird history, overhauled in 2000 then 250hrs later in 2008 overhauled again and then 600 hrs later overhauled in 2014 all done by the same person not so sure it's what I would call a major overhaul but that's what listed. Talked with the owner and since it leaks oil worse than a radial and covering his new restoration in oil thinking we'll pull the engine and have my engine guy have a look inside and seal the leaks too. I'll set the e-gap 1st just to see if that's the issue it's easy to do but unfortunately this engine may have to be split.
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  2. #42

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    The mag drop is not an exact number, real hard to tell on an old shaky AC tach but it seems close to normal and didn't really catch my eye as a problem.

  3. #43
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    I had some of the same symptoms. Turned out that the cylinder that was a little low was cracked.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by upda lk View Post
    I had some of the same symptoms. Turned out that the cylinder that was a little low was cracked.
    Don't have any low cylinders but I'll look it over again.

    Its 64* degrees this morning think I'll go fly to make sure heat is out of the equation.

  5. #45
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PA-22/20-160 View Post
    I'll pull the mags and look them over, the engine has a weird history, overhauled in 2000 then 250hrs later in 2008 overhauled again and then 600 hrs later overhauled in 2014 all done by the same person not so sure it's what I would call a major overhaul but that's what listed. Talked with the owner and since it leaks oil worse than a radial and covering his new restoration in oil thinking we'll pull the engine and have my engine guy have a look inside and seal the leaks too. I'll set the e-gap 1st just to see if that's the issue it's easy to do but unfortunately this engine may have to be split.
    Yikes !
    Every time you make a post you give us some other symptoms of trouble. Multiple low time "overhauls"? Leaks like a radial? What is the origin of the oil leaks? Unless it is coming from the crankcase parting surface you may be able to not split the case. However, was the "overhauler" just a nice incompetent guy or a smooth talking charlatan?

    When you get this all ironed out with the problems all solved, Make certain that you tell us what happened.

    Wash the engine down clean. Then fly it once around the pattern. Look for the leak. It "could" be just one place making a big mess. I'm trying to look at the bright side.
    N1PA

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Yikes !
    Every time you make a post you give us some other symptoms of trouble. Multiple low time "overhauls"? Leaks like a radial? What is the origin of the oil leaks? Unless it is coming from the crankcase parting surface you may be able to not split the case. However, was the "overhauler" just a nice incompetent guy or a smooth talking charlatan?

    When you get this all ironed out with the problems all solved, Make certain that you tell us what happened.

    Wash the engine down clean. Then fly it once around the pattern. Look for the leak. It "could" be just one place making a big mess. I'm trying to look at the bright side.
    I have no idea who the guy that overhauled the engine is but it looks like 200 to 600 tbo are what he strides for. I've got most of the leaks figured out and some will require disassembly.

    I flew the plane again today, 62* Fahrenheit 900' field elevation, my carb and airbox/filter that is known to work, did a mag check at 1800rpm less than 100rpm drop and identical drop between left and right mags. Engine starts great plugs have 2.5 hrs since clean/gap. Have not had it diesel on me since I changed the original carb so don't really know if that's part or the equation or not. It's possible to have an e-gap problem but I won't know until I dig into it. Engine is still doing its thing in the low temp so I don't think it's heat issue. Can't be a carb airbox/filter, no primer and exhaust looks good thinking it's time to look inside.

  7. #47

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    Also engine made more RPM's leaning today but never really smoothed out before it got to lean like it has in the past.
    im done flying behind this engine until is solved.
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  8. #48

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    I wonder if the cam is a tooth off.. I don't even know what happens when one does that, but with the overhaul described, it sure seems possible..
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  9. #49

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    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	38334Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	38335Here's its radial like behavior after 2.4hrs, both the lower cowl and boot cowl are new and well lubricated now.

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by 46 Cub View Post
    I wonder if the cam is a tooth off.. I don't even know what happens when one does that, but with the overhaul described, it sure seems possible..
    Starting to think it has to be somthing internal.

  11. #51
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Why a 60" prop on a Super Cub? Was scary on my Pacer with way less drag and can't imagine on a Super Cub. From what I have read you are not meeting rpm per TCDS. I'd put the right prop on and try that before I went to tearing into other things.
    Steve Pierce

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  12. #52

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    Had a 310 like that once! Post flight included a rag for wiping oily mess off gear doors. Case halfs were leaking on both engines. I just carried a case of oil in the cargo compartment.
    I think your decision to not fly it anymore is a wise one. Check the timing and gears as already mentioned.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Why a 60" prop on a Super Cub? Was scary on my Pacer with way less drag and can't imagine on a Super Cub. ….
    I tried the specified 74x58 prop on my old C150/150TD and it turned it into a dog.
    The 52 that came on it was too flat.
    I ended up with one at about 54-1/2 and it was just right.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  14. #54
    Doug Budd's Avatar
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    Just a thought if it has bendix mags make sure the cam in the mag is for the right rotation. If itís upside down it will not run right


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
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  15. #55

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    Engine woes

    Had a freshly overhauled O360 with a history similar to yours. Carb went back to overhaul shop twice with no improvement. Finally got around to sending freshly overhauled Slick mags back. EGap was way off. Started better, leaned to smoothness better, EGT and CHTís more uniform in cruise with less fuel burn. The run up was in spec with bad mag. After mag change made about 75 to 100 better static. Didnít get to the mag solution until we did pretty much everything you listed. Good luck!


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  16. #56

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    Figured I'd give an update, ended up being the fabulous slick mags.
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  17. #57
    Wag2+2's Avatar
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    What was up with the mags
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  18. #58

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    Simple, slick's suck!! They have a long history of bad cam followers on the points. They put out a SB saying they fixed the problem and repeat the SB every few years. When they work they work fine, but they will give you a lot of intermittent/hard to figure out problems when the E-gap starts to go bad. Bendix is the the way to go if you have a choice.
    DENNY
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  19. #59
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I haven't seen any issues with Slicks since the last revision several years ago. Had a transient lose a mag yesterday and the airport manager/mechanic was gone. Condensor checked good, points looked perfect but the secondary winding on the coil was shorted. From the date code it was 24 years old. They didn't have log books so no idea on times but the mag had never been opened up. Torque seal was still in place. I had a new coil but about choked when I saw it is $412 to replace it.
    Steve Pierce

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  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by DENNY View Post
    ….. Bendix is the the way to go if you have a choice.
    I agree. IMHO Bendix mags throw a way hotter spark than Slicks.
    In my experience, they'll fire an iffy (high resistance) plug when a Slick will not.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  21. #61

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    The Bendix mags are better, if you can, run them.

  22. #62

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    I run the new Bendix (I think 1200 series?) currently and have had absolutely no problems in a few engines' tbo runs (knock on wood and yes I have a new spare), but have run Slicks in the past. I left the original Bendix (S6LN?) because of all sorts of problems.. but the upside of the old Bendix was you could easily "overhaul" them. The learning curve on the Slicks was that they need to have new points installed and the internal timing (Points gap) reset at mid-life. My first time with this, both of them came out of time in exactly the same degree and I could hardly believe it was the mags but they were both off. Then I noticed the book said mark their position and if you bump them more than 1/8" then you need to reset internal timing. What I found was, the points were so badly burned that you should only bother if you had new points. When I learned this, I put new points and condenser in every 750 hours (half life for my 1500 hr engine) and never had a slick mag failure. The other parts always looked worn but always made 1500hrs. The Slicks cost more for overhaul parts than to buy a new one so I never did that. All that said, as noted above, I've put multiple tbo runs on the new Bendix mags and have not had to do absolutely anything to them. I'm embarrassed (or maybe happy) to say I don't even know how to change their points. The Bendix are heavier though.
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  23. #63

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    Coming from a different "engine" background I am un impressed with two tests in aircraft world: The first is the so called "differential" compression test that for the most part only tells you about the valve seal, cracks at head cylinder joint etc. but very little about the air pumping ability of the engine. The other test is the so called ignition timing test. Again timing is a dynamic thing and should be observed with the engine running. Of course that is difficult and dangerous with a propeller in the works.

    All that said, in the OMC outboard world we had a test that I think would have showed an e gap problem (low voltage). We had a board with 6 ea adjustable "spark gaps" on it that had an old style battery clamp that could be clipped to a ground on the engine block. The spark leads were attached to the gaps and the engine pulled through and if I remember correctly a magneto should fire blue spark over 3/8 " gap and electronic ignition should fire blue spark over a 1/2" gap. Any less and it meant the ignition system wasn't up to the task for one reason or another.

    It seems that many of the long term threads on here with mysterious problems might benefit from some simple tests such as spark gap, dynamic compression (which will show up plugged intake or exhaust system as well as overall ability of rings and cylinder to pump air), and if it were possible with a camera and companion strobe light, running ignition timing.
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  24. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by qsmx440 View Post
    …. in the OMC outboard world we had a test that I think would have showed an e gap problem (low voltage). We had a board with 6 ea adjustable "spark gaps" on it that had an old style battery clamp that could be clipped to a ground on the engine block. The spark leads were attached to the gaps and the engine pulled through and if I remember correctly a magneto should fire blue spark over 3/8 " gap and electronic ignition should fire blue spark over a 1/2" gap. Any less and it meant the ignition system wasn't up to the task for one reason or another......
    Read the Slick service / overhaul manual, Dave, and you will see a similar procedure spelled out.
    Mag needs to be turned at a specific RPM, "pointers" set at a specific gap.
    Paul Neunhuis (AIR) at Arlington had a test bench for doing this, he tested my mags for me once.
    (problem turned out to be weak plugs, note to self:
    "next time read this first: http://www.aircraftmagnetoservice.ne...shooting-guide ")
    Dunno where it went when he retired, but hopefully someone local has it and is making good use of it.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  25. #65

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    I work on a fleet of C172s and PA44 right now. I install a couple of mags every week. We go through 6 to 8 a week working on a total of 30ish airplanes. Our TBO on the slicks is 400 hours with an impulse coupling. It used to be 800 but they never made it. Mags get checked about every 6 weeks. Most will make it 6 weeks but few will make it 12 weeks without having to be re-timed. There is NO Bendix answer for the IO-360L2A.

    There is a SB on the impulse couplings. We replace them every 400 hours too. Champion just keeps sending us more. Sure is frustrating.

    We never crack them open. Just pull them off and send them in for overhaul.
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