Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 79

Thread: T3 field approvals?

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like

    T3 field approvals?

    Anyone try to get a field approval for the T3 tail suspension from Airframes yet? My IA would like at least one other and he's willing to try. Thx.

    Will
    Thanks 1piece@atime thanked for this post

  2. #2
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Graham, TX
    Posts
    17,616
    Post Thanks / Like
    Looking at CAR3 tail wheel/skid I don't believe you need one but I could be wrong.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
    Likes mike mcs repair liked this post

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    6,120
    Post Thanks / Like
    My PMI wanted me to call my Grove masters a "minor alteration". He did sign the field approval a year later.

  4. #4
    cruiser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    South Glens Falls, NY
    Posts
    1,361
    Post Thanks / Like
    Don’t see anything on the type certificate that mentions a leaf spring? Yea, I know everyone just knows that it is back there.
    Likes alaskadrifter liked this post

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    You guys just make it too easy to spend money!

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    3,531
    Post Thanks / Like
    major alteration means an alteration not listed in the aircraft, aircraft engine, or propeller specifications -(1) that might appreciably affect weight, balance, structural strength, performance, powerplant operation, flight characteristics, or other qualities affecting airworthiness; or
    (2) that is not done according to accepted practices or cannot be done by elementary operations.


    minor alteration means an alteration other than a major alteration.
    Thanks Doug Budd thanked for this post
    Likes mike mcs repair liked this post

  7. #7
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Graham, TX
    Posts
    17,616
    Post Thanks / Like
    What are the reasons to install the T3? I wheel land so I can see, lift the tail on take-off as soon as it will come up which is quick, I don't land on big rocks, normally on sand and gravel mostly and see this as something else to fail and not easily be field repaired. Are folks seeing a huge advantage to the T3? Looks like a great design I just am curious how others use it.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
    Likes mike mcs repair, Southern Aero liked this post

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    My home field is clumpy prairie grass and the tail takes a beating on every taxi.
    Thanks Steve Pierce, Frank Blaesbjerg thanked for this post
    Likes cubdriver2 liked this post

  9. #9
    Doug Budd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Crawford Nebraska
    Posts
    119
    Post Thanks / Like
    I have one on my cub and like it. I land a lot in pastures and my runway is a wheat field. Not as much banging going on back there. The down side is it is taller than springs


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
    Thanks Steve Pierce thanked for this post
    Likes cruiser, cubdriver2 liked this post

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    64
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    What are the reasons to install the T3? I wheel land so I can see, lift the tail on take-off as soon as it will come up which is quick, I don't land on big rocks, normally on sand and gravel mostly and see this as something else to fail and not easily be field repaired. Are folks seeing a huge advantage to the T3? Looks like a great design I just am curious how others use it.
    One of the best mods on a Rans S7 for taxiing over and/or 3pt landing on rough surfaces. Especially
    if youíre making a first time off - airport landing in a place you havenít walked before, more peace of mind rather then punishing the tail end of your plane. Just simply takes a whole bunch of stress out of the tail section. Well built piece of gear. Never personally heard of one failing.(?)
    Went to Acme Aero Bush Shocks, T3 and 29Ē Airstreaks- if I owned a Cub, it would need the exact set up.
    Keep in mind, these items are manufactured and sold by companies with great reputations.
    Roddy
    Likes cubdriver2 liked this post

  11. #11
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Graham, TX
    Posts
    17,616
    Post Thanks / Like
    Before this turns into something it was not intended to be I have no issues with the quality of the product. I am merely asking how people are seeing the benefits. Things break period be it an anvil or a cylinder on an engine. I seem to keep my airplane simple unless I see a benefit in changing, adding or modifying it. The benefit has to out weigh the compromise which there always is one. Looks like there are several benefits to the T3 depending on what, how and where you operate. Hope to hear more.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
    Likes mike mcs repair, MT12 liked this post

  12. #12
    Doug Budd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Crawford Nebraska
    Posts
    119
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Before this turns into something it was not intended to be I have no issues with the quality of the product. I am merely asking how people are seeing the benefits. Things break period be it an anvil or a cylinder on an engine. I seem to keep my airplane simple unless I see a benefit in changing, adding or modifying it. The benefit has to out weigh the compromise which there always is one. Looks like there are several benefits to the T3 depending on what, how and where you operate. Hope to hear more.
    Steve if I flew off of a smooth surface and only landed off airport once in a while I would probably stay with a springs. But 90% of my take off and landing are off airport so I think it is worth it. Time will tell if it can hold up.


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app
    Likes MarkS liked this post

  13. #13
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Graham, TX
    Posts
    17,616
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Budd View Post
    Steve if I flew off of a smooth surface and only landed off airport once in a while I would probably stay with a springs. But 90% of my take off and landing are off airport so I think it is worth it. Time will tell if it can hold up.


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app
    I am in the same boat but the off airport places I go are pretty smooth. I have talked to Dan several times and keep weighing it out in my mind.
    IMG_20180617_093241.jpg
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
    Thanks cubnut thanked for this post

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    3,531
    Post Thanks / Like
    A little too much lateral play for my taste. I had a T3 in hand. I still have the parts for Backcountry's swingarm tail suspension. I installed a Pawnee spring.
    Likes mike mcs repair liked this post

  15. #15
    cubdriver2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    upstate NY
    Posts
    9,153
    Post Thanks / Like
    It's like adding Dr School's to the rear of your plane. It stops most of the stress that the spring transfers to the frame, on every landing, even the smooth ones.
    I have a dirt farm road crossing my runway that has 4" tire ruts. I used to fill it in after every rain. I don't even bother since installing the T3. Love mine.

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
    Thanks 1piece@atime thanked for this post
    Likes Chicken Hawk, 40m liked this post

  16. #16

    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    420
    Post Thanks / Like
    Iím with Glenn,

    Totally eliminates elevator bounce felt thru the stick when on rough stuff.
    Re lateral flex, way better than stock spring.
    Nothings as stiff as a Pawnee spring because itís designed for a 250 lb tail
    and unnecessarily beats the crap out of the airframe in my opinion.
    T3 is a good compromise.
    Re loss of AOA: half inch alum spacer block between front mount pad corrects TW angle.
    might also allow the steering head to hit rudder when totally compressed, one ought to take the spring off and check full range of travel before taking my advise.

    T3 assy weighs about the same as a Pawnee spring BTW.
    I rarely fly over 1500 lbs, so, canít speak for heavier applications.
    Last edited by Oliver; 06-22-2018 at 06:12 PM.
    Thanks Brandsman thanked for this post
    Likes Chicken Hawk, Frank Blaesbjerg liked this post

  17. #17

    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    189
    Post Thanks / Like
    You would need to do drop tests to get an approval. You need to show compliance to CAR 3.352.

    David


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  18. #18
    cubdriver2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    upstate NY
    Posts
    9,153
    Post Thanks / Like
    You can get the AOA back once moving because the T3 will compress when pulling back on the stick

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
    Thanks Brandsman thanked for this post
    Likes Frank Blaesbjerg liked this post

  19. #19

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    Gabe at Airframes said they have several customers working on approvals and would update the website when and if they can get copies of those.

    Will

  20. #20

    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    420
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    You can get the AOA back once moving because the T3 will compress when pulling back on the stick

    Glenn
    i agree but I think the steering head angle is too steep and makes for a floppy tailwheel during ground ops.

  21. #21
    Ruffair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Lower Chena
    Posts
    1,221
    Post Thanks / Like
    About a month ago saw a YouTube video on Facebook about a composite Tailwheel spring. Can’t find it now.
    Anyone know about this.?

    Think I located it.

    https://www.facebook.com/mark.patey/...c_location=ufi
    Last edited by Ruffair; 06-23-2018 at 11:17 AM. Reason: Found link to video
    "...We're fast enough to get there, But slow enough to see..."
    Fron the song "Barometer Soup". By Jimmy Buffett
    Thanks Orchevguy thanked for this post
    Likes Orchevguy liked this post

  22. #22

    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    64
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Oliver View Post
    i agree but I think the steering head angle is too steep and makes for a floppy tailwheel during ground ops.
    Not my experience at all. One person in the plane, or two, steering remains excellant.
    (Matco tailwheel assembly attached to the T3, also good equipment).
    Roddy

  23. #23
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    8,122
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    You can get the AOA back once moving because the T3 will compress when pulling back on the stick

    Glenn
    Hmmm? So with the spring compressed, how well does it traverse the bumps? It seems that you would be sacrificing the advantages of the T3 for angle of attack. Perhaps it would be advisable to increase the diameter of the main tires when the T3 is installed in order to retain the angle of attack if it is that critical?
    N1PA

  24. #24
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Graham, TX
    Posts
    17,616
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by RoddyM View Post
    Not my experience at all. One person in the plane, or two, steering remains excellant.
    (Matco tailwheel assembly attached to the T3, also good equipment).
    Roddy
    Super Cub or a RANS?
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  25. #25
    mvivion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Bozeman,MT
    Posts
    9,918
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    You can get the AOA back once moving because the T3 will compress when pulling back on the stick

    Glenn
    But, do you really want to to so on rough terrain? I prefer to get the tailwheel OFF the surface, not put more pressure on it.

    MTV

  26. #26
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Graham, TX
    Posts
    17,616
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruffair View Post
    About a month ago saw a YouTube video on Facebook about a composite Tailwheel spring. Can’t find it now.
    Anyone know about this.?
    A friend sent me some pictures. I hear it has withstood installation on a Husky which I believe are heavier on the tail than a Super Cub. Only issue I see is taking weight off the wrong end.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
    Thanks Ruffair thanked for this post

  27. #27
    mvivion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Bozeman,MT
    Posts
    9,918
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruffair View Post
    About a month ago saw a YouTube video on Facebook about a composite Tailwheel spring. Can’t find it now.
    Anyone know about this.?
    Thomas Dietrich (Solo Aviation) in Germany produced a composite tail spring for Huskys.

    MTV

  28. #28
    cubdriver2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    upstate NY
    Posts
    9,153
    Post Thanks / Like
    [QUOTE=mvivion;7214a But, do you really want to to so on rough terrain? I prefer to get the tailwheel OFF the surface, not put more pressure on it.

    MTV[/QUOTE]

    Of course not, but available if needed. I don't have a big engine, big prop or flaps so I need to use all the tools I can find.

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  29. #29
    aktango58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    18AA
    Posts
    8,680
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    It's like adding Dr School's to the rear of your plane. It stops most of the stress that the spring transfers to the frame, on every landing, even the smooth ones.
    I have a dirt farm road crossing my runway that has 4" tire ruts. I used to fill it in after every rain. I don't even bother since installing the T3. Love mine.

    Glenn
    I would consider moving the road!
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  30. #30

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    3,531
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruffair View Post
    About a month ago saw a YouTube video on Facebook about a composite Tailwheel spring. Can’t find it now.
    Anyone know about this.?
    Early in my project I considered a composite leaf spring for the tail. I even talked to a manufacturer who was interested in making it for me. I had more on my plate than I needed so I never followed through.

    Corvettes have used composite leaf springs for as long as I can remember so obviously they aren’t a new idea.

    I saw a pic on Facebook not long ago that appeared to be an Acme Aero Fab tail suspension being tested. No info on Acme’s website.
    Thanks Ruffair thanked for this post

  31. #31

    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska Carefree, AZ
    Posts
    101
    Post Thanks / Like
    I have the composite tailspring on my Husky made by Thomas Dietrich in Germany, STC for tailski, so all good. It works well for me. Removed 5 lbs from tail compared to stock spring, but I also removed a lot of weight forward to help offset matters. Thomas has just finished doing a forged steel one piece spring for the Husky which is only one pound more weight than the composite one he says, have not seen that yet, only in pictures.
    John
    Thanks Ruffair thanked for this post

  32. #32
    cubdriver2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    upstate NY
    Posts
    9,153
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by aktango58 View Post
    I would consider moving the road!
    I would if I owned it, but not that big of a deal, been there for over 20 years. Only gets interesting when they appear out of the trees with a tractor, bailer and haywagon just as you touch down

    Glenn
    Last edited by cubdriver2; 06-23-2018 at 10:16 AM.
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
    Thanks Bender thanked for this post

  33. #33

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    3,531
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanks Steve Pierce thanked for this post

  34. #34

    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    64
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Super Cub or a RANS?
    RANS
    Roddy

  35. #35
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Graham, TX
    Posts
    17,616
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by RoddyM View Post
    RANS
    Roddy

    Different ball game all together. My question was more to the Super Cub guys since that is what I would run it on. RANS is probably a lot lighter and lots of differences over a Super Cub.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  36. #36
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Graham, TX
    Posts
    17,616
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by john schwamm View Post
    I have the composite tailspring on my Husky made by Thomas Dietrich in Germany, STC for tailski, so all good. It works well for me. Removed 5 lbs from tail compared to stock spring, but I also removed a lot of weight forward to help offset matters. Thomas has just finished doing a forged steel one piece spring for the Husky which is only one pound more weight than the composite one he says, have not seen that yet, only in pictures.
    John
    What does the composite spring weigh? Here are some weights I have of tail springs:

    AK Bushwheels 3 leaf tail springs 4.85 lbs. with their bracket 5.05 lbs
    Univair 3 leaf from 1 ľ” 3.10 lbs.
    Univair Pacer/Super Cub 4 leaf 4.20 lbs with Piper bracket 4.35 lbs
    Univair Pacer/Super Cub 4 leaf with bracket holding springs together 4.50 lbs
    4 leaf Pawnee tail spring 6.2 lbs.
    Husky Spring pack 4.875 lbs.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
    Thanks Bowie, Brandsman thanked for this post
    Likes mike mcs repair liked this post

  37. #37

    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Canyon, tx
    Posts
    207
    Post Thanks / Like
    I’ll split one with you Pierce. Run it for a min. If you like it buy my 1/2 and sign my logs as a minor alteration for the one I buy. If you don’t like it, I’ll buy your half and pretend to sign my own logs......Brandt likes his on the Rans
    Likes RaisedByWolves, mike mcs repair liked this post

  38. #38
    cubdriver2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    upstate NY
    Posts
    9,153
    Post Thanks / Like
    Eddy Doyle bought one at Kosh 2 years ago, does he like it?

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  39. #39
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Graham, TX
    Posts
    17,616
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by KevinJ View Post
    I’ll split one with you Pierce. Run it for a min. If you like it buy my 1/2 and sign my logs as a minor alteration for the one I buy. If you don’t like it, I’ll buy your half and pretend to sign my own logs......Brandt likes his on the Rans
    You always tend to come out smelling like a rose on any deal you make. I'll let you buy one and try it out. When did you ever worry about logbooks?
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
    Likes KevinJ, mike mcs repair liked this post

  40. #40

    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    64
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Different ball game all together. My question was more to the Super Cub guys since that is what I would run it on. RANS is probably a lot lighter and lots of differences over a Super Cub.
    Not so Sir. With all due respect, these aircraft are more similar then you think.
    Roddy

Similar Threads

  1. Field Approvals
    By mit greb in forum Take Action Jackson
    Replies: 86
    Last Post: 06-08-2017, 12:04 PM
  2. Field approvals
    By Gordon Misch in forum Cafe Supercub
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 12-10-2008, 12:11 AM
  3. Field Approvals, (Again)
    By T.J. in forum Cafe Supercub
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 06-09-2006, 09:22 PM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •