Supercub and Mogas
- Thread starter giangab
- Start date
hotrod180
FRIEND
Port Townsend, WA
We have a lot of cardlock pumps at gas stations aroun d here.
The average pump has both regular & premium, some also have a miod-grade, some also have diesel (through a separate hose).
How many pumps at the stations in your area, with all those E-choices plus (I assume) regular premium and diesel?
Or is all the E-gas through one pump, and you just dial in the amount of ethanol desired?
(as in do you want fries with that?)
Cub Special Ed
Registered User
MT/SD
Amen on the mmo. I use it in fuel in everything i own!
cubdriver2
FRIEND
upstate NY
25+ years ago at Oshkosh I sat in on a radial engine clinic, there was more then one speaker. One old weathered gray haired who was the last to speak was the most interesting one. He had run the engine repair/rebuild shop for TWA when they were flying the Constellation. He was taking answers from the audience when someone asked about MMO, wanted to know his opinion on using it. I don't remember word for word what he said but it was something like this. " No one can tell you what it does, and it's not FAA approved, but I can tell you that TWA bought 55gals drums of it by the truckload."
Glenn
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
So did the military.
Farmboy
MEMBER
Middlebury, VT
And bottled up nicely in a red container so I don't have to mix my own concoction! hahahahaha...
Carey Gray
Registered User
Thun Field, Washington
It is a mystery, but I use it regularly. I had an IA explain that it wasn't FAA approved and shouldn't be used in aircraft engines.
I told him to enjoy fixing his stuck valve.
I told him to enjoy fixing his stuck valve.
Farmboy
MEMBER
Middlebury, VT
Little sidebar here.
My 08 Powerstroke that, in simple terms, came oem with exhaust "recirculation" plumbing that simply diverts exhaust back into the engine after going through some cooling chambers. This apparently solved the exhaust particle count and passed the EPA parameters.
A few years ago I had one of the coolers start leaking, which was evident by the smoke trail out the exhaust of vaporized coolant.
My options were to replace the cooler for $1000, or remove all the re-circ parts, DPF delete, and install a bypass kit with a computer chip for $1000. Hmmm... tough choice for maybe 2 seconds.
[FONT=system-ui, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, .SFNSText-Regular, sans-serif]120.5 lbs of EPA mandated crap removed from my F350. [/FONT]
[FONT=system-ui, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, .SFNSText-Regular, sans-serif] - Hey look, I get good mileage now. (Well, 4-5 mpg better)[/FONT]
[FONT=system-ui, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, .SFNSText-Regular, sans-serif] - Hey look, my engine doesn't have to smoke out the other drivers during the Exhaust Cleaning Cycle anymore. [/FONT]
[FONT=system-ui, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, .SFNSText-Regular, sans-serif] - Hey look, my engine might actually last now that it's not trying to burn the exhaust twice. [/FONT]
[FONT=system-ui, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, .SFNSText-Regular, sans-serif]Biggest difference was power. Even in stock setting on the computer it was as if I had just put a CS prop on it.[/FONT]
[FONT=system-ui, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, .SFNSText-Regular, sans-serif]Just wish I could have cleaned all the black gooey carbon mess out from inside the engine.[/FONT]
Attachments
Old government pilots that talk about MMO in big radials are talking about using it in the oil to lubricate too tight valve guides in freshly overhauled engines. At least that's what I've heard from a couple of old time government pilots.
Are you guys using in your fuel? Seafoam is mineral spirits (Varsol) and isopropyl. That makes a lot more sense to me than MMO (Varsol and light base oil). But Seafoam has gotten expensive so I just use a jug of (completely FAA legal) isopropyl occasionally to eliminate water. I never recognized any difference with or without MMO as a top oil. If I did I'd mix some Stoddard Solvent and light mineral oil like was suggested to me years ago by Mr. Camguard. But I don't use car gas unless I have to.
Are you guys using in your fuel? Seafoam is mineral spirits (Varsol) and isopropyl. That makes a lot more sense to me than MMO (Varsol and light base oil). But Seafoam has gotten expensive so I just use a jug of (completely FAA legal) isopropyl occasionally to eliminate water. I never recognized any difference with or without MMO as a top oil. If I did I'd mix some Stoddard Solvent and light mineral oil like was suggested to me years ago by Mr. Camguard. But I don't use car gas unless I have to.
180Marty
MEMBER
Paullina, Ia
Farmboy this is for you. My Mom bought this Lawnboy back in 1993 and it has used 10% ethanol since about 2000. The fuel I just dumped in was mixed last September and it just started on the first pull. Around here lots of straight pipe from the engine new diesel pickup. Some even have a "power" button in the cab that they can fog major black smoke.
Attachments
180Marty
MEMBER
Paullina, Ia
Hotrod, here is a pic of a blender pump at a convenience store about a mile from the ethanol plant the store owner is an investor at Jackson Nebraska. They bring the ethanol over from the plant and put it in a tank. In NW Iowa, there are two products that come up the pipeline 84 sub-octane and 91. All pure/combinations are made from those three things----ethanol, 84, and 91. The 91 in the pic must be in a separate tank. The pump I get E85 from 10 miles away has one hose with 87 E0 and E10 and a yellow hose with 15,20, and 85. Lots of variation with a blender pump.
Attachments
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
For a number of years, I owned a pickup that was approved for E-85, and I lived where E-85 was readily available. So, I tried an experiment: Two months running on only E-85, then two months running on only E-10 (no ethanol free gas available there, then repeat. The truck consistently got significantly worse mileage with E-85, and cost more.....great idea...duh!
unfortunately, our local stations offer only E-10 in lower grade gas, but a few stations carry ethanol free 91 octane. The cub likes the stuff.
Stopped at Mobridge, SD and Waseca, MN enroute OSH....both have turf runways and auto gas on the field.
MTV
unfortunately, our local stations offer only E-10 in lower grade gas, but a few stations carry ethanol free 91 octane. The cub likes the stuff.
Stopped at Mobridge, SD and Waseca, MN enroute OSH....both have turf runways and auto gas on the field.
MTV
cruiser
Registered User
South Glens Falls, NY
Meaningless trivia. They ran their engines hard. They ran their engines often. And they ran them lean of peak. Everyone has a gut feeling about why certain practices work. Usually based upon what someone else told them back in their youth.
180Marty
MEMBER
Paullina, Ia
Mike, E85 (105 octane) likes high compression which your pickup wasn't. But if you notice the prices in the picture from whenever, E85 was 98 cents less and I bet it would have worked price wise. My 2017 Ford Focus has variable valve timing and direct fuel injection into the combustion chamber. Last week when I filled I got 32 mpg. It will run on 87 octane too by changing valve and fuel timing. One time I had to drop to E30 and my mileage went to 40 or a little more. I guess I should see if it will get 50 on 87 E0 but just can't bring myself to do such an evil thing. A big Continental that I know of has been using E10 since 2006, the exhaust pipe has a nice tan look. Before trying the E10 and using 87 E0, the exhaust was black and sooty. Sparkplugs were too but not anymore---they're beautiful and compression after 225 hrs is all above 75/80.
Carey Gray
Registered User
Thun Field, Washington
I sure seems that if you believe strongly enough, it'll work for you.
Using that line of thinking, I believe I'll fly after work then have a cold beer.
Using that line of thinking, I believe I'll fly after work then have a cold beer.
cubdriver2
FRIEND
upstate NY
Agree, but we have both had cubs with little Continentals, I think I remember you having some stuck valves a few years back. Mine in 4200+ little C-engine hours have not. : - )
Glenn
Just picked up 100 gallons of avgas at $4.50 per. Regular car gas is creeping up on $3.50 here, and Alaska produces a little petroleum, too. I used to add MMO into my tank but haven't in a few years. Can't recognize any difference other than sumped water doesn't come out bright pink. I used to think it mattered. Not so much anymore.
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
Uh, nope. In fact, E-85 was slightly MORE expensive than E-10 at the time....a total rip off. As to E-0 in aircraft engines, you need to remember what the red knob is for.....
MTV
180Marty
MEMBER
Paullina, Ia
You are right about rip off. Today's close for June Nymex RBOB unleaded gasoline was $2.18 and CBOT ethanol futures $1.50. No subsidy $$$$ in the ethanol either like some people seem to think. Another thing I read from some people is how E10 loses 10% miles per gallon and I wonder what are they smoking. If the ethanol is blended with the same gasoline that is E0, then there are 3.5% few btu's in that gallon but if...... Texas is a special place----the state goes around and does random samples at gas stations and one time they found either 1/2 or 1 % of a tar like molecule that didn't actually burn in the gas. What a wonderful way to get rid of junk for a nice profit.
cruiser
Registered User
South Glens Falls, NY
Nope, I have never had a stuck valve. And your gut feeling that MMO has anything to do with your experiences is not hard data. Add a half a quart of kerosine to your oil, that is a good solvent and will keep your valve guides clean. Cheaper than mineral spirits in a red can.
Cub Special Ed
Registered User
MT/SD
Mmo rules!
Ethenol drools!
Ethenol drools!
Farmboy
MEMBER
Middlebury, VT
So... your point is what? What was the fuel mixed with last september?
hotrod180
FRIEND
Port Townsend, WA
Far as I'm concerned, a mandated market for your product is a subsidy.
They should end the mandate & let the product sell (or not) on it's own merits.
hotrod180
FRIEND
Port Townsend, WA
Looks like a one-armed bandit to me.
I think if I pulled into a gas station and encountered something like that....
I'd find another station.
Or at least hope they had an attendant.
Farmboy
MEMBER
Middlebury, VT
..... No subsidy $$$$ in the ethanol either like some people seem to think. .....
That's like saying that Tesla never got loans, grants or other government assistance.
"A 2010 study by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) found that in fiscal year 2009, biofuel tax credits reduced federal revenues by around US$6 billion, of which corn and cellulosic ethanol accounted for US$5.16 billion and US$50 million, respectively. A 2010 study by the Environmental Working Group estimated that the cumulative ethanol subsidies between 2005 and 2009 were US$17 billion. The same study estimated the future cost to taxpayers at US$53.59 billion if these tax credits were extended until 2015, yielding 15 billion US gallons (56.8 billion liters).[SUP][87]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_the_United_States[/SUP]
That's like saying that Tesla never got loans, grants or other government assistance.
"A 2010 study by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) found that in fiscal year 2009, biofuel tax credits reduced federal revenues by around US$6 billion, of which corn and cellulosic ethanol accounted for US$5.16 billion and US$50 million, respectively. A 2010 study by the Environmental Working Group estimated that the cumulative ethanol subsidies between 2005 and 2009 were US$17 billion. The same study estimated the future cost to taxpayers at US$53.59 billion if these tax credits were extended until 2015, yielding 15 billion US gallons (56.8 billion liters).[SUP][87]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_the_United_States[/SUP]
180Marty
MEMBER
Paullina, Ia
Farmboy, You removed all doubt for me now and I probably shouldn't even respond------I think this is 2018 and just a few changes have been made. There are no subsidies or tax credits and the mandate to blend ethanol by oil companies is even changing. This is old news from April 2018. Heck, even major refiners are claiming hardship and getting out of there mandate to blend ethanol the last few years even before Scott Pruitt who seems to be expanding on the waivers. It was supposed to be for the one horse small time refinery but like I said times have changed. You really need get up to speed.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...hardship-waiver-from-regulation-idUSKCN1HA21P
Steve Pierce
BENEFACTOR
Graham, TX
From what I have researched the EPA has, in a round about way regulated in ethanol as a way of complying with clean air regulations. You live in remote areas with little pollution ethanol free is readily available, big city with lots of pollution fuel has ethanol.
Farmboy
MEMBER
Middlebury, VT
Ha! Good deal. Let me refer to post #27 though, just for clarity - "It was hugely subsidized, and perhaps still is." The phrase implies that it was once, as it was. And it might still be, but I don't follow it.
So it seems that it's not anymore. Thanks.But I still think it's BS. My opinion. Are you a corn producer Marty?
Similar threads
