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Thread: Small hotrod caliber cartridges

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    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
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    Small hotrod caliber cartridges

    Time for me to start thinkin about a new rifle. I am wondering about 6.5mm and under. Im not interested in .17's. Where i would prefer this discussion to go is .224 up to 6.5mm. Creedmore and grendel are out for me (i just dont like them and im not a band-wagoner). I want a flat shooting all-around round. Mabe flat enough for prarie dogs, coyotes, or target? Ive got a 243 a-bolt ive tried 58gr in. Needs more experimenting. Im very interested in the 22-250 or 260 rem. Im looking for something some what odd, but has bullet availability. Please dont fight with each other, we all have our own preferences, only difference is, i want to hear yours and why (mpbr, bc, mv, moa, ect..) I look forward to hearing the multitude of expertise. P.s. keep it in lame-mans terms so i can comprehend. Thanks folks.
    Last edited by Cub Special Ed; 05-06-2018 at 12:41 AM.
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers

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    Here’s one to think about. I just finished a mid-range match today up here in Anchorage. I use ac 6XC cartridge, with a 107 Sierra Matchking. The wind was gusting to around 30-35, and fishtailing. 300,500, and 600 yds. Easy, comfortable, and minimum wind deflection. It will go 1000 yds, if you can. It is the predecessor to the 6mm Creedmore-0.020 in. difference in case lenght. With this being said, and you have a .243, stick with that and experiment with the heavier bullets.
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    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    I love my 6mm on a 98 action, 87gr hpbt. Good on chucks and deer 300yrds +.

    Glenn
    Last edited by cubdriver2; 05-06-2018 at 08:24 AM.
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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    It's been around 100 years, but the Savage 250-3000 has been good for me from small to deer.
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    Exclamation

    In the natural world, there are generalists like sharks that have survived unchanged for tens of millions of years. Nothing beats a 30-06 as a generalist rifle. For any on particular purpose (i.e. prairie dogs) it's true that there will be a better specialist caliber. 30-06 bullets are inexpensive, available everywhere with different bullet weights for different purposes and that will never change in our lifetime. There are dozens of models to choose from. Because it is viewed as commonplace, it tends to be under-rated by people who are passionate about guns, but the most accurate gun I own is a 30-06.

    You might consider a Winchester Model 70 Featherweight in 30-06 springfield. It weighs 7 pounds without a scope.

    https://www.gunbroker.com/Rifles/sea...weight&Sort=13

    Or, outside of the 30-06 box, a closely related Winchester Coyote Light in .308 Win - it also comes as a suppressor ready "SR" model - http://www.winchesterguns.com/produc...-light-sr.html

    No fighting? On a thread about guns? I am new to Supercub.org, but that seems to be asking too much!!
    Last edited by Tennessee; 05-07-2018 at 06:54 PM.
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    I know you said you are not interested in a Creedmore but last year I was introduced to a very interesting combination. I do not recall the details to the tiny fraction but this on was built on the AR15 frame, not the larger AR10. His build uses a 6.5 215grain bullet in the small cartridge, very little power used. The gun is built with an 8" barrel and a very generous suppressor. It shoots flat, long and accurate with just an 800FPS out of the barrel. One does not have any need for ear protection with this. Yes he has his share of tax stamps in this build but it is the most impressive rifle I have handled. The trigger alone is more expensive than any gun I currently have, but it is interesting.
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  7. #7
    PerryB's Avatar
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    My two favorite fun guns are a 22-250 for varmints/pests, and a 6mm for coyotes and larger. Both on 700 actions. I had the 22-250 built, and used a Lilja 3 groove barrel. It's crazy accurate.
    After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF !
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    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
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    All great ideas. Keep them comin. I do have 3006. Put lots of meat in freezer over the years. Im checkin on each caliber as you folks are suggesting them. Has anyone had exposure to the .224 valkyrie? Is it just an ar15 thing? Looks like it has potential. Thanks
    Last edited by Cub Special Ed; 05-06-2018 at 09:59 AM.
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers

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    I love the 22/250 but check out the balistics of the 204 Ruger. I have a couple ARs in that caliber. It will reach out to 22-250 ranges and check out the energy compared to the 22-250 at 400 yards.Shoots fast flat and bucks the wind pretty well. Whats really nice is almost no recoil, you see the bullet impact. 204 is kinda perfect varmint round


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  10. #10
    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
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    I had always heard 204's were effected prety bad by wind which is why i stayed away from them. Mabe ill take another look.
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers

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    85Mike's Avatar
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    I've had a M77 Ruger .204 for 10 years now and love its performance. At time of introduction it was the fastest off the shelf cartridge available, over 4000 MV with the 32 grain Hornady factory ammo. That said, it tended to loose accuracy after 20 shots or so that I theorize was due to copper fouling in the barrel. The 40 grain bullet at around 3900 MV would stay accurate much longer. 300 yard shots at sage rats in SE Oregon were amazing. Coyotes to 400 yds were also easy shots. I put a 6 x 20 scope on it. I'm hoping to have the opportunity to hunt wolves with it one of these days. I shot a sitting bobcat in the sternum and could not find the entry hole until I skinned it. There was no exit hole and its chest cavity was a MESS! Its a killer round.

    Mike
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    gbflyer's Avatar
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    6.5-.284. Oddball enough, but also available components.
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    "Lame-mans terms":

    depends on the mission, I have heavy barrel 22-250 bolt that used to love for squirrels and coyotes, haven't touched it since I was talked into .223 on a similar platform. (my diehard .204 buddies unfriended me on account of the bark of my 22-250). Half the noise, fraction of the recoil, and l ill admit it, a hot barrel morning of ground squirrels, less recoil, less flinch factor, better accuracy.
    I dont reload, don't want to go down that rabbit hole. Lots of over the counter loads avail to experiment with in 223. (Stay away from the really cheap stuff)
    A good "lame-mans" caliber and cheap to shoot. Good out to 250yd + on squirrels. I've taken several blacktail deer with an Encore chambered in .223 64gr loads
    Last edited by Oliver; 05-06-2018 at 11:59 AM.
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    I love my savage 110 bolt 30-06 loaded with 125 ballistic tip hand loads 3000 fps it will shoot more accurate than me every time great coyote gun. I've shot chucks to 230 yards with my savage a-17 so don't discount that caliber for small stuff.

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    For me, the .22-250 is hard to beat. Its a versatile round and shoots very flat. Iíve owned it in a Rem 700, Browning lever action, and Savage Model 10.

    The Model 10 is my favorite. It loves the Hornady Superformance 50gr. As a totally unmodified, factory gun, itíll shoot factory ammo right in there with all of my buddies custom stuff and precision hand loads. Itís a fantastic package of economy, availability, simplicity, and accuracy.

    I have other comparable small caliber rifles....17, 204, .223, .243, but I have the most confidence in the .22-250.
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    What kind of range are you looking for? A 22-250, or if you reload, a 22-250 Ackley Improved, is pretty tough to beat. If you're wanting to reach out a bit more, the heavier, high BC bullets out of your 243 would do awfully good... If you're wanting something a little out of the ordinary, look into a 6mm Competition Match. It's basically a souped up .243, and has great barrel life (3000-4000 roubds). Mine shoots 105gr AMax's @ 3300 fps out of a 24" barrel. 3400 fps is doable with a longer tube. Chad Dixon, in Sturgis (longriflesinc.com), built mine, and I was skeptical at first, but it's living up to be just as good as he claimed it would be. Sub-moa groups are the norm out to 1200 yards.
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    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
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    Ill have to stop in next time i have some spraying in sturgis. Been kind of interested in goin ackley on my 280 xbolt medallion also.
    Last edited by Cub Special Ed; 05-06-2018 at 03:46 PM.
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers

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    If you stop in, just be ready to talk guns....and take your checkbook!
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    If you do a ton of shooting and only shoot 'store bought', not reloads a 223 is a pretty decent choice. Some years back it seems there was a huge difference in some of the hotrod rounds and a 223, But the newer factory loads in 223 are pretty decent performers over what I remember from years ago.
    You can get great deals on storebought by buying 1000's of rounds at a time in a 223...maybe the best 'bang for you buck'.
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  20. #20
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    The 250-3000 has been mentioned a couple of times. Great all around round. I'd also recommend the 6.5mm Swede. Neither of these rounds have a lot of glamour anymore but they both have excellent ballistics and can be loaded way up or way down in bullet weights, to suit the application. They've been used for everything from prairie dogs to moose, although I'd limit the large stuff to white tail size. I don't know about the 250-3000 but the Swede has been used in target rifles so you know it has inherent accuracy.

    Low recoil and you can by ammo in the store if you don't feel like reloading.

    Web
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    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
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    Ive got a savage edge in 223. Best upgrade to that has been timney trigger. I think theres a place in sturgis that does custom stocks? Mabe i should do that on 223 + bedding? Its prety accurate now with a friends reloads. Guns are like cubs. They started out almost perfect but we are always wanting just a little better performance.
    Last edited by Cub Special Ed; 05-06-2018 at 04:06 PM.
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers

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    record setter. 22 dasher or 6.5x47 lapua in a 6.5 caliber.
    Last edited by tempdoug; 05-06-2018 at 08:26 PM.

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    okmike's Avatar
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    I sure liked my 220 Swift for small stuff, I guess it's outdated but lots of fun
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    Haven’t you heard retro is in. 222 Remington on a heavy barreled Sako is my go to. Ground hogs, beavers, coyotes to prairie poodles out to 450 yards when the winds right all with Federal priemum and since it doesn’t jump you get to see it all through the scope.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

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    aktango58's Avatar
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    the .224 Val. is getting the popularity the 6.5 creedmore has due to the long range accuracy and popularity with the general public to do long range shooting.

    Why shy from what works? I originally did not consider a Creedmore, but seeing the competition 1000 yard shooters embrace it, and availability of ammo makes a guy think
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  26. #26

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    And as much as i hate noise, i think im going to try either a gen 1 or 2 micro bastard on the next build. https://www.americanprecisionarms.co...-muzzle-brakes

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    Rifles are exactly like airplanes, the next one is the best and it only takes money, to start with. 1 1/8 inch group at 600 is hard to comprehend. sortve a cool read.http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek030.html
    Last edited by tempdoug; 05-07-2018 at 12:08 AM.

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    You might want to look at a 6.5 x 300 Weatherby. My father put one together as a wildcat and ammunition was more of a challenge but I see that Weatherby now makes the rifle and the ammunition.

    40 years ago I shot a deer in the neck at 100 yards. It made a complete somersault and landed dead. It wasted a bit more meat than I would have liked. A head shot would've solved the problem.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLDCROWE View Post
    Haven’t you heard retro is in. 222 Remington on a heavy barreled Sako is my go to. Ground hogs, beavers, coyotes to prairie poodles out to 450 yards when the winds right all with Federal priemum and since it doesn’t jump you get to see it all through the scope.
    Always liked that gun. Friend had one when we were in hi-school. I've got a 788 in 222 that shoots real fine!!

    Probably even further retro, but I had a 30-30 rebarreled to 219 zipper and gave it to a friend as a saddle gun to shoot coyotes when he was riding. I have a Winchester 64 in 219 zipper.
    I may be wrong but that probably won't stop me from arguing about it.

  30. #30
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    Iíve had a deadly 222 Mag. Sold it a few years ago. Just didnít shoot prairie dogs like I used to. I kept my 22/250 improved. It screams. Donít shoot it much either anymore. Just coyotes off the back porch. Iím into the AR stuff. Suppressed is sure easier on the hearing. 5.56 supersonic, 300 Blackout and 308. Donít like the slow subsonic stuff.


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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cub Special Ed View Post
    Ill have to stop in next time i have some spraying in sturgis. Been kind of interested in goin ackley on my 280 xbolt medallion also.
    FWIW I had a short-action model 70 carbine rebarrelled to 250-3000 Ackley about 20 years ago.
    My favorite uncle had two different single-shots chambered in 30-40 Ackley and I just had to have an Ackley.
    Mine shoots well, but only 100-150fps more MV than you can get out of a standard 250-3000.
    Minuses: you have to handload.
    You can shoot standard 250-3000 rounds, in fact that's how you fireform cases, but you lose velocity.
    About the same amount that the wildcat gives you (100-150fps).
    Also, I discovered that the magazine holds one fewer of the fatter,steeper shoulder Ackley rounds.
    Because of that steep shsoulder, the Ackley round also doesn't feed as well out of the magazine.
    If you get a little bit of buck fever going on, it's not hard to get a jam throwing the bolt for a quick second shot.
    With everything said & done, I kinda wished that I'd just stuck with the standard factory cartridge.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  32. #32

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    Looks like most of the replies are spot on. One negative here, a 6.5x.284 will go thru a barrel in about a 1000-1200 rounds. Also the timing of this subject is reflected on the “6mmbr” website. Also some good specials on rifles on the Monday report. And another observation, a 6mmbr is hard to beat out to 600 yds. Holds a lot of benchrest records.

  33. #33

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    With today's optics, and high BC bullets, 600 yards isn't near as tough of a shot as it was a few years ago. At a recent shoot, for the last shot jackpot, all the shooters got a $10 shot at 1200 yards at a 20" gong. 16 of the 20 shooters hit it, several high schoolers, and a 13 year old girl, included. The winner was 4" off center. No wind, perfect conditions, which is rare around here, but it was pretty impressive, nonetheless.
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  34. #34

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    I have used a 22-250 and 25-06 for coyotes in the past. I now use a stainless Ruger M77, 204 for coyotes and for the farthest and wildest prairie doges that are beyond the 200 yard range of my 17 hmr. It all depends on your mission and how many rounds you will be shooting in a season. I usually shoot shoot around 1,000 rounds trying to control my prairie dog problem. Considering low ricochet levels, cost per round which is about $.18 per round and noise level, I mostly use the .17 with a 16 power scope. I would recommend 16 power and up to be able to shoot to the capability of this round resulting in the most kills per dollar. I don't have the time to reload or I might choose to use a different cartage. I have killed a number of coyotes with the 17 round, however I much prefer the 204 with the 40 grain bullets for coyotes. Lots of good choices out there. Have fun, Eddy
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    I was doing the same Eddy. Shooting prairie dogs along the front range I’d start with a .17 hmr out to around 200 yd then if neighbors weren’t an issue bump up to a .223 then the 25-06 when I wanted to burn powder. I built a .17 Rem. Fireball from the .223 action with an EABCO barrel and absolutely love it. Now I’m in VA so no more long range varmits.
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  36. #36

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    After shooting the barrel out of a swift,a 22-250 and even a 722 Remingtonís 222rem I an hooked on the 204. Out to 400 itís deadly on coyotes with 39gr. Ballistic kings and the ultra low noise/recoil is a big plus. After 22lr itís my most used cartridge. My Cooper single shot will shoot -1/4Ē and so will the above mentioned 722 now that Dennis Olson put a Lilja 204 barrel on it. A Ruger 77 mark 11 will shoot under 3/4 but I had to put a rifle basics trigger and HS precision stock on it. There is a lot of magic in this little cal. I listened to a bunch of guys for 10 years going on about what a great all around unexplainably great shooter even in SE Montanaís ever present wind and unlike most new caliber hype this is the real deal you will be amazed...my Cooper turner prairie rats into pink mist every shot unless I screw it up.
    dave
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  37. #37

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    Love my .25-06 Ackley Improved. Built on a Heym action with a tapered octagon barrel and a nice piece of French walnut. Early Weaver K1 variable from about 1952. Put together by Wind River Rifles. Can't say much about his business ethics but built me a nice rifle. Coyotes hate the thing.

  38. #38
    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
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    Well folks, i bought a rem 788 22-250. Couldnt pass up the price. Shoots first 2 rounds @ 2ooyrds touching and then slings next 2 in a 4 round group. Very nice rifle and awsome trigger. Im currently sanding down to float the barrel. Should be able to stack them up after that.
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers

  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cub Special Ed View Post
    Well folks, i bought a rem 788 22-250. Couldnt pass up the price. Shoots first 2 rounds @ 2ooyrds touching and then slings next 2 in a 4 round group. Very nice rifle and awsome trigger. Im currently sanding down to float the barrel. Should be able to stack them up after that.
    make sure the end of the barrel is perfect and true.

  40. #40
    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
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    End of barrel trued to action?
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers

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