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Thread: Advice on bush upgrades

  1. #1

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    Advice on bush upgrades

    OK, after 16 years of tooling around I am finally going to make my largely stock PA18-150 bush-ready. It has just had the engine zero-timed and upgraded to 160HP and currently has a 74-54 Sensenich. The aircraft will be used on gravel bars, beaches and tundra.

    Definitely in: 31" Bushwheels, baby bushwheel, Piatt baggage pod with a couple of AK Bushwheels 5 gall fuel bladders.

    What else do people strongly recommend?

    Extended gear? What's the advantage?

    Extended baggage?

    Is there a cargo net available?

    Am waiting for the Catto prop STC (foolish, perhaps).

    Anything else?

  2. #2
    PerryB's Avatar
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    The Baby Bushwheel is questionable. Several people have installed them and then decided they didn't like them so much. Myself included. They add weight and steering effort. They're also more prone to shimmy as the tail spring flattens out over time and cost you a little effective incidence/deck angle. When operating in the rough I'm almost always solo and it's easy to lift the tail almost immediately on takeoff and keep it unweighted until nearly stopped when landing with forward stick and judicious braking.
    After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF !
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  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by PerryB View Post
    The Baby Bushwheel is questionable. Several people have installed them and then decided they didn't like them so much. Myself included. They add weight and steering effort. They're also more prone to shimmy as the tail spring flattens out over time and cost you a little effective incidence/deck angle. When operating in the rough I'm almost always solo and it's easy to lift the tail almost immediately on takeoff and keep it unweighted until nearly stopped when landing with forward stick and judicious braking.
    Interesting, thanks.

  4. #4
    cgoldy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PerryB View Post
    The Baby Bushwheel is questionable. Several people have installed them and then decided they didn't like them so much. Myself included. They add weight and steering effort. They're also more prone to shimmy as the tail spring flattens out over time and cost you a little effective incidence/deck angle. When operating in the rough I'm almost always solo and it's easy to lift the tail almost immediately on takeoff and keep it unweighted until nearly stopped when landing with forward stick and judicious braking.

    Can you you zoom in on the tail wheel?
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    Back Country O-375 wide body extended wing cub

  5. #5
    behindpropellers's Avatar
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    Borer or Cato prop
    Belly Pod - Don't extend the baggage.
    31 or 35s
    Safety Cables
    2000 gallons of avgas so you are proficient.
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  6. #6
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BritishCubBloke View Post
    OK, after 16 years of tooling around I am finally going to make my largely stock PA18-150 bush-ready. It has just had the engine zero-timed and upgraded to 160HP and currently has a 74-54 Sensenich. The aircraft will be used on gravel bars, beaches and tundra.

    Definitely in: 31" Bushwheels, baby bushwheel, Piatt baggage pod with a couple of AK Bushwheels 5 gall fuel bladders.

    What else do people strongly recommend?

    Extended gear? What's the advantage?

    Extended baggage?

    Is there a cargo net available?

    Am waiting for the Catto prop STC (foolish, perhaps).

    Anything else?
    It's ready now without all the added weight.

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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  7. #7
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    It's ready now without all the added weight.

    Glenn
    Itís fine until you land somewhere and didnít see that hole. I do recall you saying how you can go everywhere on 800x4 or your 25x4 yet I havenít seen you take your Bushwheels off. Put the 800ís on and follow me. Iíll bring the video camera.


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  8. #8
    SteveE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    Itís fine until you land somewhere and didnít see that hole. I do recall you saying how you can go everywhere on 800x4 or your 25x4 yet I havenít seen you take your Bushwheels off. Put the 800ís on and follow me. Iíll bring the video camera.


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    Donít follow Tom. He might land below a dam somewhere.


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  9. #9
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    Itís fine until you land somewhere and didnít see that hole. I do recall you saying how you can go everywhere on 800x4 or your 25x4 yet I havenít seen you take your Bushwheels off. Put the 800ís on and follow me. Iíll bring the video camera.


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    Ok, add some 26s, the rest we do for ego

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  10. #10
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Don't like your baby bushwheel? Send it to me!!

    If you are in sand with any weight, or rough, get the baby. I used to go through two hubs each year breaking them on the rocks. The baby bushwheel took care of that. Steering in sand is much better with big tires.

    Flatter prop, practice, and a cover for the back stick to ensure it does not get stuck or wedged.

    Cables, I like long gear for prop clearance.

    From there grass stains and rock nicks from using it- and lots of smiles while you do that.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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  11. #11
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveE View Post
    Donít follow Tom. He might land below a dam somewhere.


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    It was pretty smooth on 35ís ha ha


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  12. #12
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    Ok, add some 26s, the rest we do for ego

    Glenn
    So when you going back on 25ís and following me?


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  13. #13
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    It’s fine until you land somewhere and didn’t see that hole.


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    That why the real bush pilots drag a landing spot 4 or 5 directions first before just doing it.

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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  14. #14
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    That why the real bush pilots drag a landing spot 4 or 5 directions first before just doing it.

    Glenn
    Soooo when are you going to follow joe and I on your little tires?


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  15. #15
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    I seem to recall you have stock tanks. I’d go with a combination pod or bigger tank(s) before anything else. Those gas bags MAY leak, mine does. And manhandling those around, with potential for spillage/hassles/contamination just isn’t worth the hassle to me. Get a proper fuel system that meets your needs, then the gas bags are just gravy if you WANT to go farther.

    im not a big fan of the baby Bushwheel. On pavement, they shimmy. Learn to manage your plane and they aren’t needed. Long before those were invented, I was landing on soft beaches with 3200 tailwheels, and thought they were major cool, compared to the previous iteration. That pic posted earlier isn’t soft sand, by the way..... If you operate for a while and decide you REALLY NEED a bigger tailwheel, buy one, but go out there and try it out first. Baby Bushwheel=heavy and shimmy.

    Main wheel tires are a good investment. As others noted, gear safety cables are mandatory. Borer prop is good.

    Figure red out ways to LOSE weight, rather than gain weight. Good GPS and a sat phone may be good.

    MTV
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  16. #16

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    Funny, I was reading the shimmy comments wondering why guys don't manage their tails better to eliminate the shimmy. Keep flaps out and hold the tail up until you can't. Problem solved for pavement ops. You won't have any shimmy issues in the "bush".

    The tire equation goes like this. Go push your plane around on the surfaces you'll operate on. If big tires make pushing easier? Use big tires. If hard little tires make it easier? Use little tires and lots of air pressure. Pretty simple. If you're stuck in between? Buy bigger tires and whine about how they wear out on pavement like everybody else does.

    Bush flying means away from civilization. Take the stuff you need to camp out and wait for better weather. A sat phone or Inreach will keep wifey from freaking out when you're late. All said? Communication is the priority over all other equipment. Happy wife, happy life.
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  17. #17

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    I guess the questions I would ask is how far between fuel stops and what is your load going to be? Three inch gear is good for better AOA and prop protection. I do like the big wheel in tundra/sand, especially when heavy. I carry my bushwheel bag in the back standing up so no leaks. I would rather have big tanks but until I hurt a wing fuel in the back it will be. I would do extended baggage in a heartbeat, it does not bother me to fly at gross. Amazon has lots of nets. Shimmy is a spring issue and that is not a issue if you have a press.
    DENNY

  18. #18
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    Soooo when are you going to follow joe and I on your little tires?


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    Translation: "Glenn, bring bail money for when Joe and I mess up!"

    Some good points on all the differences with tailwheels. As far as springs getting old and losing camber, that is why there are new ones for sale. Like most stuff, they wear out, get new one and bolt it on!

    Maybe take a trip up here and ride in some of the birds with the mods and get a feel. Going with less mods is actually better, add in as you like.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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  19. #19
    mvivion's Avatar
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    You guys do understand that David lives in Australia, right?

    MTV
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  20. #20
    Tony flyrite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    Soooo when are you going to follow joe and I on your little tires?


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    Or you all can TRY and follow the monster ...350' one ways...250' waters edge to waters edge Bars....and 300' jack legged slews...and all with a throwaway mount less than $20,000 and 90 HP !
    vimeo.com/249249638
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  21. #21
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyrite View Post
    Or you all can TRY and follow the monster ...350' one ways...250' waters edge to waters edge Bars....and 300' jack legged slews...and all with a throwaway mount less than $20,000 and 90 HP !
    vimeo.com/249249638
    Cool, you're having too much fun. I hope you weren't being irresponsible and did that on big tires



    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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  22. #22
    Olibuilt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyrite View Post
    Or you all can TRY and follow the monster ...350' one ways...250' waters edge to waters edge Bars....and 300' jack legged slews...and all with a throwaway mount less than $20,000 and 90 HP !
    vimeo.com/249249638
    I was scared at first watch. Very spectacular but impressive.

    Then I saw some kind of a pirate, landing on a paradise beach.

    And I was scared again...





    Nice flying, love the video
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  23. #23
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    My 150 hp Super Cub was stock except for the VGs and Dakota Cub brakes when I bought it. I added 29" BWs, Baby Bushwheel and the Borer prop when I first brought it home. I operate on sand and gravel bars every couple of days. Was chewing up the prop on sand and gravel. I sold my 29s and installed 31s. Still didn't have the prop clearance I wanted so I added 3" extended gear. Still get a lot of abrasion on my prop but it is what it is. I use my brothers pod when going places and haven't seen a need for extended baggage when camping for 7-10 days with two people. I did add a B&C alternator because I was coming in from playing at dark and the generator wouldn't keep up. Also added a light weight oil cooler for weight savings. Last year I installed the Thrustline mod for better performance and helped on prop clearance. Recently installed the Sutton exhaust after trashing another muffler, saved weight and opened up the firewall which gets plenty hot in the Texas summer. It also saved 2 lbs. over stock. Removed the spinner recently and saved 2.7 lbs as well. There is a story about how I got most all of these parts. The only thing I bought new was the B&C alternator and it was a special deal through Wicks at the time. I do a lot of scrounging and trading.
    Steve Pierce

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  24. #24
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    As far as the Baby Bushwheel debate, I love mine. Funny when the guys with 3200s come in and it becomes a plow disc and they can't even turn around.

    Sent from my SM-N900V using SuperCub.Org mobile app
    Steve Pierce

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  25. #25
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    As far as the Baby Bushwheel debate, I love mine. Funny when the guys with 3200s come in and it becomes a plow disc and they can't even turn around.

    Sent from my SM-N900V using SuperCub.Org mobile app


    Imagine what a 3200 would have been.



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    Tony flyrite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olibuilt View Post
    I was scared at first watch. Very spectacular but impressive.

    Then I saw some kind of a pirate, landing on a paradise beach.

    And I was scared again...





    Nice flying, love the video

    I keep my treasure on this river and these sandbars ......Oh.... I got a peg leg too!
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  27. #27
    Tony flyrite's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Now I know it didn't cost thousands of dollars, but accomplishes the same thing and cannot be torn up.....well.....hard to tear up, and cheap to fix if it does!
    Last edited by flyrite; 04-17-2018 at 10:00 AM. Reason: cause
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  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by flyrite View Post
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    Now I know it didn't cost thousands of dollars, but accomplishes the same thing and cannot be torn up.....well.....hard to tear up, and cheap to fix if it does!
    That’s some redneck sh**.
    Love it!

  29. #29
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    If you look right below the N-number ,you can see I agree with you!
    And to the point of the mods needed for backcountry flying. The big tires for me opened the world. It's my experience that the guys with capable bush planes are a lot like my acro buddies in competition, they have the magic feather syndrome .they think if they get one more mod ,or a different mount that it will make them much more capable to the task at hand . Put gas through the tank ,that will make your mount more capable than any mod you can do!
    Last edited by flyrite; 04-17-2018 at 12:34 PM.
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  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post


    Imagine what a 3200 would have been.



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    Just need some seed corn.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  31. #31
    Olibuilt's Avatar
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    Flyrite: Sorry my english. But you seem to be a very funny guy, in the good way. With your flying skills and the look of your flying machine, you should wear a Ronald McDonald costume... Would make some really funny videos!!












  32. #32
    cgoldy's Avatar
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    Can you tell us about your swamp monster? I am intrigued?


    Quote Originally Posted by flyrite View Post
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    If you look right below the N-number ,you can see I agree with you!
    And to the point of the mods needed for backcountry flying. The big tires for me opened the world. It's my experience that the guys with capable bush planes are a lot like my acro buddies in competition, they have the magic feather syndrome .they think if they get one more mod ,or a different mount that it will make them much more capable to the task at hand . Put gas through the tank ,that will make your mount more capable than any mod you can do!
    Back Country O-375 wide body extended wing cub

  33. #33
    Tony flyrite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgoldy View Post
    Can you tell us about your swamp monster? I am intrigued?
    So as not to hijack this thread, I started a new thread over under the everything else category titled swamp monster to answer your questions

  34. #34

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    Stock cub, folding front seat, borer prop, tires as required.


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  35. #35

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    Thanks for advice everyone! Will let you know the outcome.

  36. #36
    texmex's Avatar
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    If your planning on flying LHI, Norfolk onto NZ. Find the smallest tyres possible and ship the big ones to NZ.

    Look forward to the adventure threads.

  37. #37
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Just buy this, best bush aircraft ever built


    FIESELER 156 STORCH ē OFFERED ē 1944 restored to new 2014 , 30 h original plus Becker XPD/R, Hangared in Sudwest France. Ask mail ē Contact Emilio K. Garcia - NATURA VERITAS S.L., Owner - located Santa Brigida, Spain ē Telephone: 928354076 ē Posted April 24, 2018

    https://youtu.be/VDcB0pSUYOI

    Glenn
    Last edited by cubdriver2; 04-25-2018 at 10:53 AM.
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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  38. #38
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Advice on bush upgrades

    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    Just buy this, best bush aircraft ever built


    FIESELER 156 STORCH ē OFFERED ē 1944 restored to new 2014 , 30 h original plus Becker XPD/R, Hangared in Sudwest France. Ask mail ē Contact Emilio K. Garcia - NATURA VERITAS S.L., Owner - located Santa Brigida, Spain ē Telephone: 928354076 ē Posted April 24, 2018

    https://youtu.be/VDcB0pSUYOI

    Glenn
    I sent peter a link to one, think it was the 75% or so. Had an 0-200. He said it would be too slow

    https://anchorage.craigslist.org/avo...546981603.html


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  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    Just buy this, best bush aircraft ever built.
    Glenn
    Why? I've never seen one in the Bush.

  40. #40
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Why? I've never seen one in the Bush.
    Every single bush mod that everybody thinks is revolutionary today was on this aircraft over 80 years ago

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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