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Thread: No transponder, best solution for ADS-B in/out?

  1. #1

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    No transponder, best solution for ADS-B in/out?

    Have not paid much attention to ADS-B, didn't plan on getting it, but transponder just went tup so looking for a new transponder and might as well get ADS-B something, looking for good but not expensive and certified not experimental

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    I went with the Garmin GTX 335 all in one. Internal WAAS GPS. Can share position with other devices. Haven't installed it yet.

    Depends on your definition of expensive. No ADS-B out is cheap.
    Eddie Foy
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God"
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  3. #3

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    Watch for certification soon. The tail light looks like a great idea.
    https://www.uavionix.com/news/skybea...cation-update/

    For in? I like a Garmin GDL with Garmin Pilot on my iPhone.
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  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Watch for certification soon. The tail light looks like a great idea.
    https://www.uavionix.com/news/skybea...cation-update/

    For in? I like a Garmin GDL with Garmin Pilot on my iPhone.
    Yeah, but you have to have a working transponder for ANY 978-UAT solution to work... And the OP stated his transponder just died...

    I had the same situation (dying transponder, needed ADS-B OUT). I figured my choice was to either go with an "all-in-one" 1090ES transponder solution, or replace my transponder and add a 978-UAT ADS-B OUT device. I decided that the 1090ES "all-in-one" solution made more sense for me. I looked (briefly) at the L3 solution (very cool, but $$$$), then talked to my avionics shop for their recommendations. His recommendation was to go with either the Garmin GTX-335 or the Appareo Stratus ESG. After looking at both, getting identical bids for both, I decided I liked the looks of the Appareo better, and kind of like promoting competition for Garmin, so I went with the Appareo.

    I'm happy with the Appareo, and glad I made that choice. Your mileage may vary...
    Jim Parker
    '65 Champion 7ECA - Flying
    ?? Bearhawk Patrol - Building

  5. #5
    fobjob's Avatar
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    After reading the manuals on the 335 and the Appareo , I decided that Garmin has lost track of the principle of simplicity and went with the Appareo....not disappointed with my choice.
    Last edited by fobjob; 04-14-2018 at 11:40 PM.

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    I have been looking at these awful lot and here is my take on it. Garman is great if you have a Garman (glass) cockpit you want everything to integrate together. I would say this is the option for an expensive airplane or you have money to burn. I agree Garmin is complicated. If you want cheap compliance UAvionics will be the way to go when available 2Q for certified aircraft. I don’t think you can beat the installation cost. In my opinion if you’re going to go ADS-B out you will want all the bells and whistles of the Garman or the Appareo ESG. For a for a simple Alaska Bush plane such as cub or etc... I would go with this Appareo ESG and splurge for the Stratus 2 with ForeFlight and an iPad. The question then is to put it behind the panel or stay portable for the stratus placement . But then you are in Alaska and do you really need ADS-B? Lower 48 I think you need ADS-B In/Out just for the traffic. That would be nice for Alaska, but with a low compliance rate (my opinion) there will still be a lot of UFOs out there. Nothing beats a good set of eyes out the window!


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  7. #7

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    This doesn't look complicated to me. https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/540911#overview

    My G3X system uses an ES transponder. Also not very complicated. It does require adding a separate WAAS GPS receiver and antenna. How does Appareo solve the WAAS requirement differently than Garmin?
    Last edited by stewartb; 04-15-2018 at 01:00 PM.

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    I only need ADSB if I decide to head through Canada. My understanding is that 978 is not going to work for Canada...so I would consider only 1090 if that was part of what I wanted to do.


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    fobjob's Avatar
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    One thing you need to realize about the satellite adsb; it leaves breadcrumbs in memory which will enable atc to find you, even if your elt gets hammered. If you have a secret stash that you fly to, that may create a problem for you....
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  10. #10
    marc's Avatar
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    Has any look into LEVIL Aviation.
    t-cart n43643

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by supercub1999 View Post
    Have not paid much attention to ADS-B, didn't plan on getting it, but transponder just went tup so looking for a new transponder and might as well get ADS-B something, looking for good but not expensive and certified not experimental

    Thanks
    Hello 1999---I`ve got a "virgin" Apollo SL-70 transponder that I never used in a planned upgrade in my RV-8 which never occurred---manual, tray and pin connector included---the most powerful transponder ever---$200.00---I`m at Spruce Creek 7FL6 in Daytona Beach---386-767-5866 or cell 603-205-4727---John


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  12. #12
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yellowbird69 View Post
    Hello 1999---I`ve got a "virgin" Apollo SL-70 transponder that I never used in a planned upgrade in my RV-8 which never occurred---manual, tray and pin connector included---the most powerful transponder ever---$200.00---I`m at Spruce Creek 7FL6 in Daytona Beach---386-767-5866 or cell 603-205-4727---John
    After hanging with the Boyz all week at SnF it looks like you need gas money to come back home?

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    This doesn't look complicated to me. https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/540911#overview

    My G3X system uses an ES transponder. Also not very complicated. It does require adding a separate WAAS GPS receiver and antenna. How does Appareo solve the WAAS requirement differently than Garmin?
    Stewart,

    There's one less "box" involved versus the solution you linked to, which adds a GDL-82 and GPS antenna to the existing installation (transponder and transponder antenna).

    But that wasn't what I referred to when I was talking about "less complex" -- I was looking at it from the user's standpoint, and the menu structures and keystrokes to get to things you want to do with the device. And to me at least, the Appareo Stratus ESG is less complex and easier to use than the Garmin GTX-335.

    But don't get me wrong -- both units are fine devices, and if I had an all-Garmin stack, I would probably have gone with the GTX-335 just to keep it consistent and to have "one neck to wring" when things go wrong. But since I have zero Garmin stuff in my 7ECA, that wasn't a consideration.
    Jim Parker
    '65 Champion 7ECA - Flying
    ?? Bearhawk Patrol - Building

  14. #14

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    My question was to fobjob but you can answer it. Why is the ESG less complicated than a 335? Both have built-in WAAS and both require the addition of an external GPS antenna. The GDL82 is a plug-in for supplementing a non-ADS-B transponder, similar to the little UAvionics gadgets I linked earlier.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    After hanging with the Boyz all week at SnF it looks like you need gas money to come back home?

    Glenn
    I can`t use the TXP as a boat anchor cause all I have is a kayak---Click image for larger version. 

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  16. #16

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    L-3 Lynx NGT 9000. All in one, wx and traffic display built in. High quality, easy install.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeeBee View Post
    L-3 Lynx NGT 9000. All in one, wx and traffic display built in. High quality, easy install.
    And one of the most expensive ADS-B Out/In solutions on the market... But I do love the NGT 9000, and wish I had the $$ to afford one. It would be really nice to have both traffic and weather displays available (even if a bit small for my 62-year-old eyes).
    Jim Parker
    '65 Champion 7ECA - Flying
    ?? Bearhawk Patrol - Building

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    My question was to fobjob but you can answer it. Why is the ESG less complicated than a 335? Both have built-in WAAS and both require the addition of an external GPS antenna.

    This is, obviously, personal opinion and could be highly variable for different people. What I mean by "less complicated" is that the user interface is more intuitive (requires fewer references to the manual) and easier to remember (the flow seems more logical to me) for the Appareo ESG than for the Garmin GTX 335/345 (or even the 327 and 330 series transponders). This despite the fact that every airplane I've owned prior to the 7ECA has had a Garmin transponder, so the "law of primacy" doesn't apply here... Of course, I'm referring to things OTHER than setting the transponder code, where all of them are pretty much standardized. Things like using the flight timer, checking the pressure altitude being transmitted, etc.

    Sometimes, systems that provide very similar functionality interact with the user in very different ways. For instance, I find the EI engine monitors much more intuitive and easier to use than their JPI counterparts (and I owned a JPI before the EI, so it's not about "primacy" here). I rarely had to refer to the EI user manual, whereas the JPI manual got used a LOT! Almost anything I didn't use on every flight required me to drag out the manual for the JPI. The EI manual got used maybe twice in two years...

    In a similar example, I personally find ForeFlight's user interface to much more intuitive and easier to use than Wing-X, Garmin Pilot, etc. That doesn't mean Wing-X and Garmin Pilot aren't good products (quite the opposite, in fact). Just that I can get around within ForeFlight more easily.

    But again, this is highly subjective and personal. You may find just the opposite to be true for you. That's why choice is great! Check out all the various options, and see for yourself which one(s) you like best. For me, since the pricing was identical, it came down to a minor difference in ease-of-use (simplicity, if you will) that caused me to give the nod to Appareo. (Well, that and a bit of "rooting for the underdog"...)
    Jim Parker
    '65 Champion 7ECA - Flying
    ?? Bearhawk Patrol - Building

  19. #19
    spinner2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PA-12 on Baumanns View Post
    But then you are in Alaska and do you really need ADS-B? Lower 48 I think you need ADS-B In/Out just for the traffic. That would be nice for Alaska, but with a low compliance rate (my opinion) there will still be a lot of UFOs out there. Nothing beats a good set of eyes out the window!
    The busiest airspace I've ever flown in is the Valley in Alaska. When I had my Cub there last summer it was amazing how much traffic was showing on my 796 with the GDL 39 as an In source. And Alaska has a pretty good layout of ADS-B towers. Better than much of the western US.

    I agree with everyone that says you need to be looking outside to see the traffic. The nice thing about seeing traffic on your screen first is that it shows you where to look for much of the traffic. And whether it is higher or lower than you are.
    "Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything." Wyatt Earp
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  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimParker256 View Post
    And one of the most expensive ADS-B Out/In solutions on the market... But I do love the NGT 9000, and wish I had the $$ to afford one. It would be really nice to have both traffic and weather displays available (even if a bit small for my 62-year-old eyes).

    You are correct. Capability cost money and with NGT 9000 it is “one and done”. It covers all issues now and on the horizon, and if there are new ones, it is software upgradeable. My eyes got a few years on your eyes, and in all those years I have discovered one thing about avionics. It is one of the few products where you really do get what you pay for. I learned that when in 1976 I saw a 172 equipped with very expensive Bendix Nav/Comms vs ARC. That airplane still flies with the same radios trouble free all those years. The same cannot be said of ARC radios. I remember when the transponder requirements and regulations first came out. Lots of low cost entrants into the market such as IFD and where are those units now? Most of them went Tango Uniform because their repair cost exceeded their value. The L-3 is a few “airplane units” more than others in cost. About the cost of a set of those big fat tires. I would rather pay for quality up front that will last years, indeed decades and not spend my time dealing with repairs of cheap equipment and constantly questioning the value of repair of the same.

  21. #21
    spinner2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy Hamon View Post
    I only need ADSB if I decide to head through Canada. My understanding is that 978 is not going to work for Canada...so I would consider only 1090 if that was part of what I wanted to do.


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    I didn't know Canada had any ADS-B service. Most of it doesn't even have radar coverage.

    I think the 1090 ES is only required if you're above 18,000'. But I may be wrong.
    "Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything." Wyatt Earp

  22. #22
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    Low cost (such as it is) ADS-B: Uavionix units are indeed a bit cheaper than the Garmin GDL82.
    But....Uavionix is new on the scene. Never heard of them until about 6 months ago.
    I remember Garmin being on the scene 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago....
    In other words, they appear to be here to stay, whereas Uavionix might be just a flash in the pan.

    Starting from scratch, an all-in-one transponder / mode C / ADS-B solution makes sense.
    But it might be less expensive to buy a (used) legacy transponder (such as what John offered up for sale),
    and pair it with a stand-alone (ish) ADS-B unit such as the GDL82 or Uavionix Beacon.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  23. #23

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    uAvionix is a "new to GA" name, but they've been a huge player in the drone world for many years. They are a huge supplier of technology in that marketplace, and probably rival Garmin in volume on the world stage...
    Jim Parker
    '65 Champion 7ECA - Flying
    ?? Bearhawk Patrol - Building

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