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Thread: Traveling through Canada

  1. #1

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    Traveling through Canada

    Has anyone transported a cub through Canada to Alaska? Any helpful advice would be appreciated.

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    55-PA18A's Avatar
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    More information about your plans would be helpful. But first read through the numerous threads on the subject.

    Jim

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    G44's Avatar
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    Flying it or on a trailer?

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    algonquin's Avatar
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    I've brought four up what do you need to know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by algonquin View Post
    I've brought four up what do you need to know.
    EAPIS is the only hurdle---figure it out early and you should have no worries.
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    aktango58's Avatar
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    If you fly the trench and get headwinds, a little extra fuel is not a bad idea.

    Don't choose the route until you look at the weather on departure for that day, and the next. Take the good weather route.

    EAPIS is not fun. Do it a few days ahead or you will give up.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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    Colorguns's Avatar
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    Planning a trip in June or July to fly over Canada from Buffalo NY to Detroit area not stopping in Canada, my understanding is that I just need to file a flight plan showing this. This correct? No EAPIS.

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    aktango58's Avatar
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    correct.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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    Don't you need a transponder code also?

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    Quote Originally Posted by algonquin View Post
    I've brought four up what do you need to know.
    Aside from having the required aircraft registration, a passport, and an ELT, what else might I be required? I've looked at the AOPA site that lists the required actions. One of the things is to obtain an FCC Aircraft Radio Station License. There is a link with a form, but I can't see where I send it to. Is this radio license required? Also, do I need to have 12" aircraft N-number markings? From what I can see, I don't.

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    brown bear's Avatar
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    No one I know has had the FCC Aircraft Radio Station License and I have never been ask for it on any of my 6 trips.
    DW

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    Quote Originally Posted by brown bear View Post
    No one I know has had the FCC Aircraft Radio Station License and I have never been ask for it on any of my 6 trips.
    DW
    That’s good to know. Anything else special I need to know about?

  13. #13
    brown bear's Avatar
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    You will want and need a Canada Flight Supplement.
    DW
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    moneyburner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKbigwheels View Post
    Aside from having the required aircraft registration, a passport, and an ELT, what else might I be required? I've looked at the AOPA site that lists the required actions. One of the things is to obtain an FCC Aircraft Radio Station License. There is a link with a form, but I can't see where I send it to. Is this radio license required? Also, do I need to have 12" aircraft N-number markings? From what I can see, I don't.


    FCC Restricted Radio Station License is required for the pilot and a Radio Station License for the aircraft, if you wish to use a radio in Canada (or Mexico, etc.), whether or not anyone has, or will ever ask to see them.

    From the FCC: "Aircraft operating domestically that do not land in a foreign country or communicate via radio with foreign ground stations: Flying in international or foreign airspace is permitted, so long as the previous conditions are met. If you travel to a foreign destination, however, (e.g., Canada, Mexico, Bahamas, British Virgin Islands) a license is required.". If you decide it's ridiculous and you don't need one, that's your decision, of course. I always ask myself "how would my insurance company try to screw me out of a claim?" and go from there. This seems pretty straight-forward to me; the regs say I need 'em, so I got 'em. Ignorance is no excuse, someone once said.

    Start here:
    https://apps.fcc.gov/coresWeb/publicHome.do and get an FRN, which you'll need to get the two FCC licenses. ("FRN" translates from beaurocratese to "Your account"). You'll need to fill out two FCC 605 forms; one for you and one for the aircraft. The type for the operator (you) is "RR", which goes in block 1. For the aircraft, block one type is "AC".

    It's here:

    https://www.fcc.gov/bureau-divisions/mobility-division/commercial-radio-operator-license-program/fcc-form-605#block-menu-block-4
    There is a link at the top of the page to file electronically.

    You only need 12" numbers if you're crossing an ADIZ. (As far as I know, there isn't an ADIZ between Canada and the US, or between Canada and Alaska, if you cross over land. Possible exception is between Prince Rupert and Annette). I may be incorrect about the 12" numbers.
    If someone knows otherwise, please advise. I have small numbers and CBP or CBSA have never mentioned it.

    Customs and Border Patrol eAPIS is required.
    Start here for that:
    https://eapis.cbp.dhs.gov/auth/login...Feapis%2Flogin

    Select "ENROLL". You'll have to wait for them to get you into their system before you can use it, of course.

    You'll also need a DHS Customs and Border Protection decal, which takes two or three weeks to get once you've figured out how to open an account with them. (annual and they're $27). I keep the decal number in my note program on my phone, so I don't have to go visit the airplane when I want to file a new manifest with eAPIS.

    When you have all that, and you're ready to go, you need to fill out a flight manifest by logging into eAPIS. You'll need your CBP decal number, passport number(s), your pilot's license number and your port of entry. You'll have to file an ICAO flight plan and get a squawk code. You also need to get ahold of Canadian customs between 40 and 2 hours of when you leave and let them know your first port of entry airport in Canada and when. They'll give you an ID number that you give them when you arrive. CANPASS (888-266-7277). Sometimes, they'll meet you there, sometimes they'll just say "Welcome to Canada, have a nice time" when you call them on the phone.

    You need insurance that meets their spec. If you don't have a transponder, you need a TSA waiver.
    You need current Canadian charts and airport/airway directory. Foreflight might be legal, but I use both. Most pilot shops near the border will have those, if not, Sporty's does.


    You probably will want to leave your guns at home, and definitely any handguns. I used to bring a 12 bore for bears and survival/flares, but finally decided it was too much bother. The barrel can't be too short or you're going to be in trouble. I have a flare pistol that shoots 12 gauge flares. If you bring one of those, make sure to tell them about it right away, as well as bear spray, if you have that. There are some flare pistols that are prohibited because they can be converted into handguns, apparently.

    Flight plans are mandatory in Canada. They use ICAO flight plan format. I struggled with this the first time, but when you call them to file, they'll help you out. I carry a cheat sheet for the various frequencies, phone numbers and so forth. They've privatized their ATC system, so you'll get a bill in the mail from NAVCAN a month or so after your flight for those services. Figure $10-25 depending on how long you're there.

    You have to give position reports when approaching uncontrolled airfields on the MF (mandatory frequency). Look for a dotted circle on the chart showing where and find the MF (mandatory freq) or ATF (aerodrome traffic freq). 126.7 is VFR enroute (like CTAF).

    Here's more info:
    https://www.avweb.com/news/places/183648-1.html

    This all may seem a bit complicated, but once you've dealt with it, it's NBD.

    I've checked this twice, but if anyone finds any errors here, please chime in.


    Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum videtur
    Thanks Tundratech, Little_Cub, cubpilot2, windy thanked for this post

  15. #15
    moneyburner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colorguns View Post
    Planning a trip in June or July to fly over Canada from Buffalo NY to Detroit area not stopping in Canada, my understanding is that I just need to file a flight plan showing this. This correct? No EAPIS.
    If you don't land, you don't need it. File ICAO flight plan and get a squawk code.
    You probably need a transponder, but you can get a TSA waiver if not. They'll tell you.
    Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum videtur

  16. #16
    Tundratech's Avatar
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    Two Cubs through Canada

    Thanks!
    We also are picking up two Cubs to bring to Alaska the second week in April. My buddy is picking his cub up in Maine and I'm picking mine up in Wisconsin. He'll meet me and we'll be off from there.

    We have the decals, passports, elt's, transponders. I've read to make sure to print out the eApis confirmation to alleviate the "I don't know anything about this" deal that some have encountered.

    One question I was wondering was flight of two. Is there anything special for us as we will be traveling together the entire route. I want to keep it as simple as possible. Not sure if TSA needs/wants to know.

    I'm still a little worried about screwing up leaving and arriving and running into border issues because of bad moods from the folks in blue. I saw the AOPA webinar where they spoke about a 15 minute tolerance--- Easy to say, but sometimes hard to meet when you are doing 80 indicated and who knows groundspeed!

    We are leaving KSUW and heading west to stay in the States for a day and then heading North and doing the highway.

    A little early for wheels and late for skis I suppose, but in any case we are both on bushwheels. Are most of the Canadian strips kept cleared or would it be advisable to call each place ahead of time to make sure.

    Thinking of Harve or Cutbank for the US side exit and Lethbridge/Medicine Hat for the Canadian.

    Thanks in advance!

  17. #17
    irishfield's Avatar
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    Flight plans are NOT mandatory once in Canada. Advisories are just fine, given to a "responsible adult" that can state the aircrafts registration and colours, intended destination, etc. and knows whom to call. I haven't file a flight plan in 30 years. My kids wait for my Spot OK and know all is well..

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    moneyburner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by irishfield View Post
    Flight plans are NOT mandatory once in Canada. Advisories are just fine, given to a "responsible adult" that can state the aircrafts registration and colours, intended destination, etc. and knows whom to call. I haven't file a flight plan in 30 years. My kids wait for my Spot OK and know all is well..
    I heard wrong then. Thanks!
    Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum videtur

  19. #19
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    irishfield,
    It has been a long time since I've flown in interior Canada. There used to be a requirement for either a flight plan or a flight notification for all flights in sparsely occupied territories. Or something like that. Is this no longer true?

    A flight plan was good for a specific flight and had to be closed within a certain period of time.
    A flight note could be for a number of flights or even days with a longer period of time available for closing.

    I used to file a flight note in Timmins for a week or more worth of flying ending in Whitehorse. This along with other long range multi day flights. Sometimes they gave me a hard time for the distance but always accepted it. I did this for many years and was often greeted over the air by the friendly flight service people with a welcome back.
    N1PA

  20. #20
    irishfield's Avatar
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    That is what I am saying, a flight notification is just fine. Tell you're wife when you'll report in, although it might well be advisable to have a plan or even following on your ass when running up the trough to AK.

    That said, I have run into issues just using a notification. Told my wife I would call her after a 7 hour flight to Thunderbay and then got fogged in and down safely but had no cell service as the locals where on a different system. Fortunately a helicopter crew got fogged in right beside me about an hour later and I borrowed their sat phone or she'd of had CANFOR out looking for me! Now I use my SPOT, even for local back lake trips at camp.. hitting OK at every stop.

  21. #21
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by irishfield View Post
    Flight plans are NOT mandatory once in Canada. .
    irish, My question is are they or are they not mandatory? And is there still a sparsely occupied territories requirement?
    N1PA

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    Ouapetec's Avatar
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    For any trans border flight into or from Canada, an ICAO flight plan is mandatory.... So, you'll need one to come into Canada and one to leave Canada for Alaska. The legs made between borders can be done using flight notifications.
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  23. #23
    cubpilot2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by irishfield View Post
    Flight plans are NOT mandatory once in Canada. Advisories are just fine, given to a "responsible adult" that can state the aircrafts registration and colours, intended destination, etc. and knows whom to call. I haven't file a flight plan in 30 years. My kids wait for my Spot OK and know all is well..
    Ive always understood it that Canadian citizens did not have to file a flight plan but any “foreigner” traveling in Canadian airspace were required to. Ive made the trip three times but it was many years ago when things were very simple; but even then a flight plan was required.

    In those early years we brought three cubs up together and filed as a flight of three. (Just had the N numbers listed on the plan.) One didn’t even have a radio.
    Ed

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    I have gone back and forth to Canada for years. I always filed a flight plan with no problem. I have CanPass which allows me to arrive at many more airports and never see a customs officer if later than filed. While flying through the wilderness it is best to file a flight plan and just update it at every stop, assuming you have a sat phone. The main hassle is dealing with Eapis and US Customs at the border.

    Jim
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  25. #25
    moneyburner's Avatar
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    From CAR (Canadian Air Regulations)

    "Requirement to File a Flight Plan or a Flight Itinerary

    602.73(1) Subject to subsection (3), no pilot-in-command shall operate an aircraft in IFR flight unless an IFR flight plan has been filed.
    (2) No pilot-in-command shall operate an aircraft in VFR flight unless a VFR flight plan or a VFR flight itinerary has been filed, except where the flight is conducted within 25 nautical miles of the departure aerodrome.

    Filing of a Flight Plan or a Flight Itinerary

    602.75(1) A flight plan shall be filed with an air traffic control unit, a flight service station or a community aerodrome radio station.
    (2) A flight itinerary shall be filed with a responsible person, an air traffic control unit, a flight service station or a community aerodrome radio station.
    (3) A flight plan or flight itinerary shall be filed by
    (a) sending, delivering or otherwise communicating the flight plan or flight itinerary or the information contained therein; and
    (b) receiving acknowledgement that the flight plan or flight itinerary or the information contained therein has been received.
    So, effectively, while Canada and the United States have similar procedures, the combination of mandatory versus optional flight filing and assumed departures versus required activation has created some degree of confusion, as evidenced by recurring transborder flight plan incidents.

    Also:

    CAR 602.73 (4) reads: “Notwithstanding anything in this Division, no pilot-in-command shall, unless a flight plan has been filed, operate an aircraft between Canada and a foreign state.” U.S. FAR 91.707 reads: “Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate a civil aircraft between Mexico or Canada and the United States without filing an IFR or VFR flight plan, as appropriate.”

    So, my earlier statement was sort of half-right?
    Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum videtur

  26. #26
    moneyburner's Avatar
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    The other thing I did (once) was to get a SIM card from Rogers and signed up for a pay-as-you-go mobile plan. It didn't work everywhere, but saved me a metric megaton on roaming charges. If you bring your US phone into Canada and use data, you can rapidly rack up a few hundred bucks in roaming charges. I'm not sure if that's still possible without a Canadian address. At the time, I was living in Anchorage, and they didn't really seem to care. A customer is a customer, I guess.
    Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum videtur

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    I have a PPL but am flying under lite sport without 3rd class medical except for Basic Med now. It that approved in Canada

  28. #28
    moneyburner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arnold bronson View Post
    I have a PPL but am flying under lite sport without 3rd class medical except for Basic Med now. It that approved in Canada
    Nope. Basic Med is not recognized by ICAO, so it won't work in Canada.
    Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum videtur

  29. #29

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    They never ask for your medical. They just want to know about alcohol, drugs, more than $10,000, fire arms and why you are coming to Canada.

    Jim

  30. #30
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    I don't want to sound like a wise guy, this is just my 2C. Path of least resistance is your very best action in most cases. I got a radio lic., I file a Dvfr flight plan crossing any border and file every leg in Canada. The folks in the flight service stations are easy to work with. To try and nit-pick what you do or don't need as a min. To get thru Canada is flat out asking for trouble, remember : if your a US citizen first- Canada isn't your country second they have the right to tell you what to do.
    Another small point is you may win the battle but customs have a lot of things in there bag of tricks.
    The last time I flew up , a few years ago the US Customs stopped letting you clear in Northway. I made a call to Anchorage Customs and explained I needed fuel before I got to ANC they gave me permission to land in Tok then continue on to clear in ANC. Point being find the phone numbers of the different offices you may need to talk to before you start the trip. Any problems come up call right away , they most likely had dealt with it before and will tell you what you can do.
    This is a great trip and a lot of fun, don't worry about the small stuff and have fun, good luck.
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  31. #31
    moneyburner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TcraftF21 View Post
    They never ask for your medical. They just want to know about alcohol, drugs, more than $10,000, fire arms and why you are coming to Canada.

    Jim

    By that logic, it’s okay to do as you like as long as you don’t get caught? I’m going to stick with my methods, thanks.
    Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum videtur

  32. #32
    brown bear's Avatar
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    I did get ask for my medical coming back into the US at Scobey MT in 2014

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