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Thread: Exhaust Advice

  1. #1

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    Exhaust Advice

    Nearing completion of a PA-18-150 rebuild and looking at exhaust upgrades. I am leaning towards the Sutton exhaust but thought I'd ask for advice. I like the lighter weight if the Sutton and they report better heat in the cabin. Any comments or suggestions?

  2. #2
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Sutton is great. Cleans up the firewall, lower engine temps, heater works great, gets rid of the ad too.


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  3. #3
    cruiser's Avatar
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    Found my exhaust studs too short to get a full nut with a flat and lock washer due to the flange thickness. Had -13 studs installed and problem solved. Other than that just as RBW said.

  4. #4
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Just installed the Sutton exhaust. Lost 2 lbs, didn't gain any performance but like it for same reason Tom posted above. Here are some pictures.
    http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...tion-and-PIREP

    I have installed several Hot Rod mufflers, they do get some more rpm but are loud and heavier and you don't get the benifit of not having a crammed firewall.
    Steve Pierce

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  5. #5
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Just installed the Sutton exhaust. Lost 2 lbs, didn't gain any performance but like it for same reason Tom posted above. Here are some pictures.
    http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...tion-and-PIREP

    I have installed several Hot Rod mufflers, they do get some more rpm but are loud and heavier and you don't get the benifit of not having a crammed firewall.
    Really loud inside with the door open in flight. Loud with it closed too


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  6. #6

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    Anyone else found the Sutton exhaust to have noise issues?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gli77 View Post
    Anyone else found the Sutton exhaust to have noise issues?
    I think they are referring to the Hot Rod exhaust, not the Sutton.

    I like my Sutton a lot. 800 hours on it since my rebuild. No noise issues.

    Jeff

  8. #8
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gli77 View Post
    Anyone else found the Sutton exhaust to have noise issues?
    I think the Sutton is a bit louder than the stock system I just removed but not near as loud as a Hot Rob muffler.
    Steve Pierce

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  9. #9
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Has anyone cut there sutton down or used the angle adapter to keep the exhaust off the tire and gear leg?

    Thanks
    Tom

  10. #10
    cgoldy's Avatar
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    Great exhaust system. I started with the curved adaptor but had discolouring on the fabric so I changed to the straight. Haven't noticed any signs on the tire but some on the gear. Can't have everything I suppose.
    Back Country O-375 wide body extended wing cub

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    Has anyone cut there sutton down or used the angle adapter to keep the exhaust off the tire and gear leg?

    Thanks
    Tom
    Like this?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Remember, These are the Good old Days!
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  12. #12
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLDCROWE View Post
    Like this?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Yeah, got any more pics? Keeps the exhaust off the gear leg and step?


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  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    Has anyone cut there sutton down or used the angle adapter to keep the exhaust off the tire and gear leg?

    Thanks
    Tom
    Ha ha.....A couple years ago you were worried about the fabric falling off. Now you’re worried about exhaust getting on your new paint. Champagne problems! Hurry up and run some brush thru your tailfeathers so you can go back flying instead of primping
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  14. #14
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinJ View Post
    Ha ha.....A couple years ago you were worried about the fabric falling off. Now you’re worried about exhaust getting on your new paint. Champagne problems! Hurry up and run some brush thru your tailfeathers so you can go back flying instead of primping
    With the amount of labor i put in this stupid cub id like it to be nice for a while.
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  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    Yeah, got any more pics? Keeps the exhaust off the gear leg and step?


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    I checked the tire with a ir temp gun and didn’t have any excess heat, I do get some discoloration on the gear step but it scrubs off. Be sure to order it with the removeable extension otherwise you’ll need a 3 pound coffee can for a template when you cut the cowling.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  16. #16
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Exhaust Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by OLDCROWE View Post
    I checked the tire with a ir temp gun and didn’t have any excess heat, I do get some discoloration on the gear step but it scrubs off. Be sure to order it with the removeable extension otherwise you’ll need a 3 pound coffee can for a template when you cut the cowling.


    I got it to fit good with the full length tail pipe. Haven’t cut it yet. Had the Sutton before the rebuild. It’s great.



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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrussl View Post
    I think they are referring to the Hot Rod exhaust, not the Sutton.

    I like my Sutton a lot. 800 hours on it since my rebuild. No noise issues.

    Jeff
    We might be needing a new exhaust soon for the plane. Just finishing the installation of new rack and tonneau cover we ordered from 4WheelOnline for kayak mounts on the truck. Heard too how loud the Hot Rod exhaust is.

  18. #18

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    That is a pretty clean belly. Maybe you need this exhaust tip.....
    Click image for larger version. 

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  19. #19

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    Whatever you do, get that letter for an AMOC. Fifty-hour disassembly is expensive and can cause damage. I just pulled a 900 hour muffler with a cracked outlet. We got the Atlee Dodge muffler replacement. CC took the Sutton off when they installed the 180 hp. Nobody ever told me why - maybe it didn't fit the bigger engine?

  20. #20

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    I really enjoy my Sutton Exhaust...one benefit I like is it also kicks the exhaust out far from the cabin, which means no CO...yes Yellow exhaust stain on gear...but easily cleaned with simple green. As for noise I feel it is not too loud.
    Last edited by J5Ron; 05-03-2018 at 02:23 PM.
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  21. #21
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    I think you mean no CO. CO2 is what you exhale.



    Quote Originally Posted by J5Ron View Post
    I really enjoy my Sutton Exhaust...one benefit I like is it also kicks the exhaust out far from the cabin, which means no CO2 ...yes Yellow exhaust stain on gear...but easily cleaned with simple green. As for noise I feel it is not too loud.
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"
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  22. #22
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    Does anyone know why Sutton puts on such a long tailpipe?
    Is it supposed to be a "tuned" length?
    I've seen several installed with the tailpipe cut to a more convenient length.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  23. #23
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    They told me it was to get exhaust gasses well away from the cabin, and that it could be shortened if desired. I don't recall how much I was told it could be shortened, and I've left mine full length.
    Gordon

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  24. #24
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    According to Sutton, It can be shortened three inches or shortened to a minimum of three inches. I forget which.
    Last edited by Eddie Foy; 05-03-2018 at 04:09 PM.
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  25. #25
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    According to Sutton, It can be shortened three inches or shortened to a minimum of three inches. I forget which.
    min of 4" protrude through the bottom of the cowling

  26. #26
    Farmboy's Avatar
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    Exhaust Advice

    NAPA aircraft and exhaust parts.

    http://www.qtponline.com/products/ex...tip_59308.html

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  27. #27

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    Tom, You need to get JB some mothers and put her to work on that air cleaner dome in all her spare time.
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  28. #28

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    Both my stock and Hot Rod mufflers made lots of heat No problems even at -30. I do have a heat robber on front also. The Hot rod is loud as mentioned and fire wall space is tight. I do thing the Hot rod helped with lowering CHT's a bit, and a bit more power on climb out. I would be happier if is was not as loud.
    DENNY
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  29. #29

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    Does any one have any knowledge as to how to increase carborator heat with the Sutton exhaust?

    Perhaps a scoop to increase air flow or a restriction to prevent air from moving too fast and not heating adequatly? I’ve heard that springs around the pipe under the carb heat tap will increase heated area.
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  30. #30
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reliableflyer View Post
    Does any one have any knowledge as to how to increase carborator heat with the Sutton exhaust?

    Perhaps a scoop to increase air flow or a restriction to prevent air from moving too fast and not heating adequatly? I’ve heard that springs around the pipe under the carb heat tap will increase heated area.
    At what OAT temp do you not get enough carb heat?
    Steve Pierce

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  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    At what OAT temp do you not get enough carb heat?
    Im in the process of building the plane and getting ready to hang the engine. I don’t know that it will be lacking carb heat, I’ve just heard roumors and anticipating how to make the system as efficient as possible.

  32. #32
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I have the Sutton exhaust and maintain quite a few Super Cubs with it and know of a lot more on Pacers and Clippers as well and have not heard of any issues with the carb heat. Being in Alaska I definitely get the heat ribbons.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
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  33. #33
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    At what OAT temp do you not get enough carb heat?
    I have the same problem with carb heat on Sutton. Smooth surface muffler. I added some muff inlet restriction and that helps but it's still marginal at best below mid 20s OAT.
    Gordon

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  34. #34

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    What I loved about it was ease of installation, no muffler AD, and lots of room behind the engine. Did not notice any performance change or excessive noise.

    Should I be using lock washers on my brass exhaust nuts? I have lost studs, but never lost a nut.

    of interest - CC converted the a/c to 180 hp, stock exhaust, and kept the almost new Sutton stuff. I insisted on an Atlee Dodge muffler - I absolutely hate doing that AD on a Super Cub. Hate it!

  35. #35
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Hmm, I have not heard of this issue. Of course it rarely gets in the 20s and when it does and I am flying it is pretty clear and I don't remember pulling carb heat. Has anyone asked Brian Sutton about this? I wonder about closing the end of the shroud and putting pressurized air to it.
    Steve Pierce

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  36. #36
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Has anyone asked Brian Sutton about this?
    Sorry to admit, I have not.
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO
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  37. #37
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    Would be interested to know if this is a ram air type system or suck air by the tubes and end of the muffler design of the Sutton.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Misch View Post
    I have the same problem with carb heat on Sutton. Smooth surface muffler. I added some muff inlet restriction and that helps but it's still marginal at best below mid 20s OAT.
    Gordon did you place the restriction on the air inlet to the muffler heat shroud (a single 2”) or the outlet, just past the heater and carb heat connections (two 2” outlets?). If it was the outlet what percentage of the outlet did you restrict?


    Steve, have you seen a difference between those exhausts equipped with the heat ribbions and without? I have those heat ribbions on mine but I don’t remember if that is the later version or if I ordered it with some cold weather kit.

  39. #39

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    It also appears that if one shut the cabin heat off when the carb heat is applied the carb heat would get more hot air.

  40. #40
    cruiser's Avatar
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    I do not believe this is correct. The cabin heat is taken off the entire muffler under the can via Ram air. The carb heat is taken of the end of the muffler, outside of the can, and off a small portion of the left hand exhaust stacks under the small shroud. No ram air. This is a view of the carb air intake. Now if a guy was creative, and non certified, I suppose a Y tube could be used in the cabin heat duct to provide fully muffler can heated ram air to both cabin and carburetor heat.
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    Last edited by cruiser; 02-08-2019 at 12:14 PM.

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