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Changing an N-number. Thoughts?

skywagon8a said:
I understand your preference for retaining the original numbers. However issuing numbers in sequence is not always done as you have described.
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I know it. I've seen some airplanes come right out of the factory with "special" N numbers. But that's a comparatively rare thing. Most of the production will have the in-sequence N numbers. And even if the plane came from the factory with a "unique" number, my comments still hold. That's its "name" and it shouldn't be changed. As I said before, your mileage may vary, but that's my story (and I'm sticking to it).

Building a homebuilt is a whole different deal. The builder can come up with whatever number he or she chooses. That's part of the beauty of building a homebuilt. And if the next owner wants to change it, so be it. Nothing "historical" about a homebuilt's N number, so have at it.

All I know is, I hated that "special" N number on my 180 the whole time I had it. LOVED the airplane, but hated that it didn't have N4665B on the side instead of N20BR. Oh well, not my problem any more (but somehow it still bothers me). :)
 
I just bought a 1958 C180 and I'm gonna change it's "name".
kinda makes me think of
I just turned 60 and I'm gonna change my name.
Unless I'm changing my name to Achmed because I just converted to Islam,
I just don't get it.

BTW a friend used to own a biplane whose tail number ended with AA.
I always enjoyed hearing him on the radio: "biplane seven alfafa"
 
To be clear, my interest is not a change to a vanity number. I get it; I hate vanity numbers, license plates and so forth. "Look at ME" is not my thing. As if having an airplane wasn't special enough for an ego massage. I worked hard and paid for it, worked some more and rebuilt it, and (sort of) know how to drive it; I did that for my enjoyment and adventures, not to show off. A bit of modesty seems appropriate when so greatly blessed. I do want other people to see it though, so I have some nice bling-y strobes on it. Well, so much for that argument.

It is my very first airplane, despite having learned to fly in the 1970s. The previous owner had it from 1969 to 2003, and I'm married to his daughter. Neither have any fracks to give about an N number. (for the great majority of his flying hours, he "borrowed" his planes from crew chiefs, and feels as I do about naming inanimate objects, be they airplanes, toasters or cars). My current number has forty-seven syllables and takes as long to say as it does to sing "Happy Birthday". For example, try saying "Super Cruiser November Seven Niner Seven Niner Juliet" three times. I'm too lazy for that much enunciation. I COULD source my radio talking out to someone in India; the price is very reasonable, but it could prove cumbersome.

As for STCs and 337s applying to the previous number, I'm not sure that would be much trouble; wouldn't the logs clearly indicate the previous registration number? NBD.

I'm very much enjoying this conversation meandering around to various topics, as things often do around here. By all means, carry on!
 
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moneyburner said:
For example, try saying "Super Cruiser November Seven Niner Seven Niner Juliet" three times.
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You don't have to say "November". That will save you some syllables!! :) And if you just say "Cub" instead of "Super Cruiser" that will save you some more. (People looking for your airplane will understand what a "Cub" looks like, but may not have any idea what a "Super Cruiser" is.) "Cub Seven Niner Seven Niner Juliet" doesn't seem all that hard to say. :)

And if you're calling your position at a non-tower airport, just say "Red and white Cub" or whatever color your plane is. It will get the message across quicker yet, and nobody really cares what your number is in that situation anyway.
 
jnorris said:
You don't have to say "November". That will save you some syllables!! :) And if you just say "Cub" instead of "Super Cruiser" that will save you some more. (People looking for your airplane will understand what a "Cub" looks like, but may not have any idea what a "Super Cruiser" is.) "Cub Seven Niner Seven Niner Juliet" doesn't seem all that hard to say. :)

And if you're calling your position at a non-tower airport, just say "Red and white Cub" or whatever color your plane is. It will get the message across quicker yet, and nobody really cares what your number is in that situation anyway.
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It was just an example, Joe. I know all that, and do all that as well. Like I said, I'm just lazy.
 
When I bought my Cub, the numbers were a single digit followed by a previous owner's first and last name initials. I never did like having another guy's name on my plane. Also, more than once when initially calling in for traffic, a tower or FSS would reply "Please use your full call sign." Keying the mic, I'd reply clearly and loudly, "Okaaay,...NOVEMBER 2 Foxtrot Delta". They never said anything more.

Prior to rebuilding, I was able secure the original N number. It had been assigned to another plane (a Cherokee ?) which was then exported. After the waiting period it became available and I got it. It cost 10 dollars every couple years to keep ownership of the number. When you actually submit the paperwork to change the registration number, you'll receive a letter back authorizing the change. Keeping that document with the logs should answer any future questions regarding the change.

Remember that you'll also have to have the numbers changed on your Airworthiness Certificate. That's a little more complicated, as you'll need to turn in the old one. I contacted the Anchorage FSDO and dealt directly with them. I wasn't willing to just send it off in the mail to someone in Oklahoma City and hope for the best. If all the paperwork is straight, it shouldn't be a problem.

My idea was that a common red/white paint scheme and 4 two inch numbers would render it damn near invisible. Worked good in Alaska. In Indiana, any Cub on big tires stands out like a wart on a baby's butt.

Jim
 
IMG_0618.JPG my cub doesn't have vanity plates but my car does and I think there cool!!


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lol I have people comment that I must be a Cubs fan I just say no it's an airplane thing


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Doug Budd said:
my cub doesn't have vanity plates but my car does and I think there cool!!
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Cool! Back in the day, when we had our 1940 Cub Cruiser, I had a license plate on our car that said "J5A CUB". Still have the plate hanging in my shop. The car is long gone. Sadly, so is the J5. I miss that plane. Nicest flying Piper I've ever had the pleasure of flying. Love my Super Cub, but miss the Cruiser.
 
Yep that is showing pride in your plane!!! Love it!


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Regarding registration numbers and the 337 files, recently we have been looking for a V35B Bonanza. My buddy is a DAR and gets the full records on every plane we consider. A few of them have had number changes and the records appear complete. There are 337s filed under different registration numbers but they all have the same serial numbers. I guess the serial number has to be the primary key, since it can’t be changed. We hope!
 
Most of the records in OKC are pretty good. I just pulled some for a DH-60 that was exported to Canada in the early 30s. On the other hand I tried to get some for a J3 that also went to Canada in the 50s and they’ve lost those.pulled some Gulfstream records, and there was a bunch of Citation records mixed in with it. Called them up and finally got it straight. Once they scan them, they destroy the originals, so if they screw up, the records for that airplane will be lost for eternity.


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Richgj3 said:
Regarding registration numbers and the 337 files, recently we have been looking for a V35B Bonanza. My buddy is a DAR and gets the full records on every plane we consider. A few of them have had number changes and the records appear complete. There are 337s filed under different registration numbers but they all have the same serial numbers. I guess the serial number has to be the primary key, since it can’t be changed. We hope!
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I got the records CD for my 180 a year or so after I bought it.
It had the records both before and after the 1986 tail number change.
As you say, s/n stays the same so no sweat.
 
dgapilot said:
If you really really want a vanity N# on your vintage airplane, do a favor for the next owner and reserve the original number. It’s only $10 every couple years, but would make life much easier for the guy that wants to restore it to original.
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This is a really good idea, but I suspect that no one will do it.
The guy who changes to a vanity tail number to begin with is not the guy who's worried about how the next owner feels about it.

FWIW I got the FAA authorization to apply my new (original) tail number on my 180 in yesterday's mail.
So if a 180-owning JB is out there and just has to have it,
180JB should become available.
I'm not sure if or how much of a "hold" they put on discarded tail numbers--
but I know it's a 5 year hold if the registration expires..​
 
I think it is five years for every way. I sold a tripacer in to Canada and deregistered it. I was going to use that number for my cub but would had to wait.


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Doug Budd said:
I think it is five years for every way. I sold a tripacer in to Canada and deregistered it. I was going to use that number for my cub but would had to wait.
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All you needed to do was to reserve it when you sold the airplane. Then just have it reassigned to your new plane. Simple, it can all be done in one letter to the FAA. Of course what the FAA does with it when they get the letter is something else. They sometime really muck up the works by assigning different sentences in the letter to different people in the office which generates all sorts of letters back to you with no one knowing what the other FAA person is doing. This from someone who has done it.
 
I just found this FAA webpage, it answers most tailnumber change questions, including keeping your special number for the next one.

https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/aircraft_certification/aircraft_registry/special_nnumbers/

I am on the downhill stretch on my tail number change, mailed off the application to get a new registration card. Only thing left is

"Within ten days after the new number is placed on the aircraft, the owner must present the duplicate AC Form 8050-64 and the present airworthiness certificate to a FAA Flight Standards District office to obtain a revised airworthiness certificate showing the new N-Number".

Naturally the Seattle FSDO is NOT on an airport, or convenient to any airport except maybe SeaTac (it's in Des Moines).
The last maintenance inspector for our area visited our airport quite regularly,
and was a helluva good guy (I used to do my annuals with him when he was a working IA),
and so this probably coulda been easily accomplished with a couple phone calls or emails.
But I think I've seen our current inspector once, in the two or three years since he took over.
So it looks like a trip to the big city is in my future.​
[SUB][/SUB]​
 
hotrod180 said:
Naturally the Seattle FSDO is NOT on an airport, or convenient to any airport except maybe SeaTac (it's in Des Moines).
The last maintenance inspector for our area visited our airport quite regularly,
and was a helluva good guy (I used to do my annuals with him when he was a working IA),
and so this probably coulda been easily accomplished with a couple phone calls or emails.
But I think I've seen our current inspector once, in the two or three years since he took over.
So it looks like a trip to the big city is in my future.​
​
Click to expand...
Same here. They've managed to relocate the office to an office park in the boonies. You need to make an appointment if they answer the phone, then get a special pass for your car with a clearance to pass a guard. We think that we know who our PMI is but when we need him we find out that he is no longer with the office. For all I know the office is actually an empty building. Gone are the days of going to the airport and walking into the office to chew the fat.
 
It’s easier to hire a DAR than to have the FAA do it. Costs some $, but you don’t have to deal with the feds.


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hotrod180 said:
...I am on the downhill stretch on my tail number change, mailed off the application to get a new registration card. ....
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Finally got it all accomplished.
Here's the time line for the evolution to the new (old) tail number:
1)Reserve tail number online, pay $10.
2) 4 weeks, confirmation arrives in the mail.
3) write letter to OKC requesting reserved number, pay $10.
4) 4 weeks later, authorization to apply new number to airplane arrives in the mail.
5) fill out and mail application for new registration.
6) Visit FSDO for new airworthiness certificate. Submit to body cavity search (not really, but damn near)
7) 5 weeks after applying, new registration arrives in the mail. Done!!

Process, start to finish: 13 weeks.

FWIW I just checked and my old vanity tail number is not on hold,
but is available for reservation.
So if anyone really has to have N180JB on their skywagon, go for it.
Might wanna hurry though--
I understand that all of Jet Blue's tail number end in JB,
so I'm wondering if somehow they'll end up with it.
 
Joe, I did the same thing with my PA-14. It spent a good part of it's life in Canada. When Jim Richmond re-imported it it was issued a number. It took me three years to get the correct N number. I think it is one digit off, but that is the best I could do.
 
What happens with the STC paperwork linking to the old N number?

hotrod180 said:
Hear, hear!! I agree 100%. A homebuilt experimental is one thing, but please don't mess with the original tail number on a vintage airplane.
My 180's tail number was changed to a vanity number about 30 years ago, N180 + the owner's initial.
He owned it about 3 more years then sold it, so for the last 25+ years people have been asking the owner(s) "hey what's that stand for?"
The original number was reassigned a few years later to a Husky, which was totaled out and deregistered about 5 years ago.
In that sort of situation, FAA puts the number on a five year hold.
This number recently became available, I'd checked into it and have been waiting and so I nabbed it.
Should be getting the paperwork to change the number in another couple weeks.
FWIW I know a couple people who've gone to the trouble to do this with their vanity-numbered airplanes.
Some folks don't get it but I sure do.

For homebuilders etc here's an AOPA article about how to go about getting that special number:

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media...ent&utm_content=sap&utm_campaign=170622epilot
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JohnnyR said:
What happens with the STC paperwork linking to the old N number?
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Nothing: A chain exists of the N numbers; no mater how many times it is changed. 337s are all the same way.

The common denominator is the Serial number and that will never be changed. Its referenced on all vital documents.
 
Eddie Foy said:
My 180 is on it's fourth N number.
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Mine, too. Went from factory to Canada in 1973 for its original registration, then changed back to a US reg with two brothers in NH sporting a vanity number, then a fellow in MN with a different vanity number. Then it went to a guy who bounced back and forth from Vietnam to MN, then into my grubby little paws. Last two owners - same #.

J
 
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