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Thread: Selling an airplane

  1. #41
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    How do you do this?
    Google Photos or Google Docs.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  2. #42
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Google Photos or Google Docs.
    Can you recommend an instruction manual for this?
    N1PA

  3. #43
    Richgj3's Avatar
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    I have sold seven airplanes over the years. The last four were done through brokers and their fees were well worth it based upon my experience with the first three. I set what I thought was a relistic bottom price I would accept net to me. If I don’t get it, I keep the plane. I guess I’ve been in the ballpark for the market because they all sold eventually and I didn’t have to deal with BS.

    A partner and I just bought a V35B Bonanza. My partner is a DAR and formerly owned a V35. We did a lot of research on a few advertised airplanes including full FAA records on maintenance and owner history. We settled on one to look at. We traveled from LI to the mid west at our own expense. We paid the sellers mechanic to do the pre-buy with us. We paid the asking price because we believed it was worth it. This was a private sale, but that didn’t matter to us. We looked at several broker airplanes but they were not worth the trip for one reason or another. We got what we wanted and the seller got what he wanted. A win-win.

    Rich

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Can you recommend an instruction manual for this?
    Connect your phone up to google photos (everybody should do this anyway in my opinion), take pictures of the logbook pages and other things, create a sharable link to the group of pictures in google photos and send it out. Can also do with a camera of course if your phone does not have a camera.

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------
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  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob turner View Post
    Helped a nice guy selling a big 300 hp. Stinson. One of the "potential" purchasers wanted a two hour demo ride. I gave him 30 minutes. The guys who bought it didn't want to pay my fee, so it left without a test flight......
    I sold my first airplane, a stock C150, two years into it because I wanted to be a taildragger pilot (bought a C170).
    One potential buyer explained to me that he was part of a club / shared ownership deal with about 7 other guys,
    and that the son of one of the other guys had totaled their 150.
    I flew over to his airport, he bought me lunch, and I took him up for a test flight.
    When we got back, there was the other seven guys waiting for us.
    He hopped out and said "OK boys, who's next?"
    Nope, not gonna happen bubba.
    Never heard another word from him or them.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  6. #46
    texmex's Avatar
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    How do you do this?
    Another way is to use Turboscan, an app on a mobile phone. It scans and you can collate as a pdf.

    This method was recommended by several on Beechtalk. I've never done it myself but have every intention when I get a spare five minutes.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Can you recommend an instruction manual for this?
    No "instruction manual", but I have done two ways:

    1) Using the phone to take pictures of each page of the logbook, and posting all those photos to a photo-sharing app. I found it tedious to get all the pictures legible enough, and uploading /organizing all those photos was a PITA. It's also much harder for the person reviewing the logs, because to make sense of the logs you really need to read them sequentially, making notes as you go.

    2) I spent around $150 and bought a combo printer/scanner/fax machine. It came with software that allows me to scan the entire logbook to a PDF file. Took about 30 seconds per page, and I scanned the entire collection of logbooks (multiple airframe logs, plus the engine and prop logs). The whole thing took less than a 1/2 day. Every potential buyer commented about how great it was to be able to review the logs in complete detail as though you were sitting with the "real" logbooks.

    Option 2 would be my preference every time... There is a learning curve, but it is quick and easy. If your time is worth anything to you, or if you need a printer/scanner/fax anyway, it's a no-brainer decision. And once you have the logs scanned in PDF form, you can usually just upload them as attachments to the ad listing itself.

    PS - I now do this for every plane I own, even when I'm not even thinking about selling. It provides me a backup of the logbooks (no "lost or missing logbooks"). And it is fairly easy to append new log pages to the existing PDF file.
    Jim Parker
    '65 Champion 7ECA - Flying
    ?? Bearhawk Patrol - Building
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  8. #48

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    Hi folks, I thought I told everyone, the 7ECA is now at it's new home in Francesville, Indiana. A nice young man came and went over it very carefully, spent the night with us and flew it home the next day. Called and told me he was happy with the machine and will be teaching his son to fly in it. I taught a few folks to fly in the Champ and used is for several years on the place, checking crops and cattle and ferrying parts. airplane had been recovered and generally looked like new. I sold it because it was just too difficult for my old body to get in and out of. Only have the 285 Deb now and no need for the others. after 17000 in the log and most of it tail wheel time it is time to start getting rid of a few things. Yuall keep your heads out of the dirt, Ok?
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  9. #49

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    I bought my 1978 Super Cub last week after a 2 1/5 month process of staring at Trade-A-Plane, Barnbusters and Controller for hours every day. I was originally open to any taildragger - Citabrias, Huskys, PA-11s, PA-18s, whatever. I was that guy who asked every stupid question you could imagine. I learned quick that if I wasn't really careful, I was going to get really, really burned. Real fraud is going on out there. I learned that brokers and sellers are good at concealing damage.

    I also learned that there are a lot of crusty and overly assertive sellers and they come from a few groups - 1) Old guys who love their beautiful plane more than life itself and resent the fact that they have to sell it to some guy they don't know, 2) Liars who don't want to answer questions that would expose weaknesses in the plane and 3) Guys who genuinely have no social skills. I just gritted my teeth and dealt with all of them, because I didn't know what group they were from. But market price is determined by the number of sellers and the number of buyers. You will have more buyers if you don't chase off buyers. Simple as that. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Be nice. Go out of your way to answer questions. Not everybody is going to be an expert. Don't resent an ignorant buyer - his money is just as green. Think of those phone calls as an unpleasant aspect of a well paying job. In the long run, those phones calls are worth hundreds of dollars an hour or more.

    You would not believe how bad and murky 80% of the photos on the web sites are. Bad pictures came to mean to me that either something is being hidden or the seller is lazy and does not pay attention to details. If you don't understand brightness and contrast or you can't take decent pictures have your wife or kid do it. Don't have 5 pictures of the outside of the plane from 30 feet away and no picture of the instrument panel or the interior condition.

    If you have a listing that leaves out something important like engine time, you are going to get a lot of phone calls. Make the listing complete. For example - any halfway interested buyer will want to know WHEN the engine was overhauled. "250 SMOH in 2016" tells me something that "250 SMOH in 1993" doesn't.

    Take your log books to the FED EX store and have them scan them and convert them to PDF files that you can email. If you have scanned logs, make sure that they are legible.

    List a price!!! You will lose many buyers by not having a price listed. No price listings got ignored by me, because it means one and only one thing - the plane is way overpriced.

    Take notes on any caller and record details about them. If they call back you will be at an advantage.

    If you do use a broker, have an out of town relative check with their cell phone number to make sure he answers his phone calls. Some of these guys seem to screen all of their calls and check their answering machine every few days. Nothing irked me more than leaving a message then getting a phone call 3 days later that starts of with "Hello this is John Doe from Forgettable Name Aviation. You called about the Super Cub?"

    The plane I eventually bought had a broker, but he had the owner do about 15 minutes of close up video of every nook and cranny and hinge and exterior detail of the plane. He posted the videos, stills and logs on dropbox so that anyone could look at them. This was the only seller that did this, and it instantly took away suspicion from my mind. The plane was way in upstate New York and because of those videos I felt like I did not have to travel to see the plane in person. After a good prebuy and annual, I jumped on it. I recommend that any seller do this.
    Last edited by Tennessee; 04-29-2018 at 06:51 AM.
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  10. #50

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    Will ty one more time to post

  11. #51

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    Looks like it may work now, The 7ECA is with the new owner in Franesville, Ind. Nice your man carefully inspected the airplane, spent the night with us and flew it home the next day. Why I sold it, 80 yeas old and hard to get it the airplane and I have another much larger that is easier to get in and out of. ,

  12. #52
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    I hope my wife doesn't see this thread, I've told her that once you buy a airplane the tax laws don't allow you to sell it.
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  13. #53

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    I bought several airplanes to use in my business over the years. Most were new and 4 or 5 used ones. I also sold them as I bought new aircraft to replace them. I never had any trouble selling. I used a "broker" one time. No I am not a seller or buyer expert but just have not had the problems the some seem to have.
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  14. #54

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    for the guys that wanted a photo of my 7ECAClick image for larger version. 

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  15. #55

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    I too would miss that one. I plan on keeping my J-3 another 14 years - I will be 91 then and my hangars will revert to the City. Still jumping in and out of the front seats of the Cub, Dec, and my buddies' Stearman. But not jumping off the couch as often . . .

    Have not yet figured out a graceful way to get my right foot in the Chief, but I am getting there.

    Here is a sales-related question: when you deliver an airplane to its new owner, do you give it to him empty, or full, and why? I have always assumed it was polite to deliver with full tanks.

  16. #56

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    It is considered very nice to have the tanks full but Was unable to do this since no fuel on the field. I have to go 50 miles for fuel. I owned the fuel at 17K, sold it when I sold the spray business. The guy that bought me out just threw the business away. He was not an ag pilot and sure not business man. He had plenty of money but no idea how to run the business. He now has two Thrushes sitting in a hanger, has sold the loading equipment and lost a bunch of money. Being a airline pilot does not necessarily make you a ag pilot or sharp business man.
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  17. #57

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    I was beginning to think it was me getting all the time wasters and tirekickers! Took two years to sell my plane, if I listed it too low just to dump it then people wondered what’s wrong with the plane, if I listed it at an average price then there’s too many nicer ones to choose from with the same money, so it sits a long time. Also as soon as I listed the airplane all of a sudden there’s 10 more that pop up out of the blue for sale.

    The Trick is to use a webpage specifically for your aircraft for sale, use Dropbox or use Airplane Mart dot com. Then send the tire kickers the link via text or email. Saves a ton of time emailing attachments.

  18. #58
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    That's what I did with my Cub. Very few tire kickers.

    Quote Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
    Listing with a firm price will help cut the majority of tire kickers.
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  19. #59
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    My 180 was delivered with 15 gallons in it!
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  20. #60
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Eddie, check the vintage of your gas tank bladders unless you happen to have integral tanks. When they get old they can fail without warning. You don't want this to happen. When stored with less than full fuel the rubber can dry out. This is more apt to happen in a hot environment.
    N1PA

  21. #61
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    They are going to have to stay empty till I get it weighed.




    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Eddie, check the vintage of your gas tank bladders unless you happen to have integral tanks. When they get old they can fail without warning. You don't want this to happen. When stored with less than full fuel the rubber can dry out. This is more apt to happen in a hot environment.
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  22. #62
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    That's fine but how old are they? Have they ever been replaced? Mine lasted for 40 years and were never outdoors unless away from home. Then they very suddenly started to leak.
    N1PA

  23. #63
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Don't know their age. One was repaired about 10 years ago.


    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    That's fine but how old are they? Have they ever been replaced? Mine lasted for 40 years and were never outdoors unless away from home. Then they very suddenly started to leak.
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God!"

  24. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by bob turner View Post
    We will not hear again from Beargrass - the OP? Assume he sold his ECA.
    Will try one last time, Yes the airplane is sold and at it's new home in Indiania. Buyer is pleased and I no longer need 2 airplanes.
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