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Piper Pawnee wing attach AD and compliance

Randy

FOUNDER
S.Dakota
Got a PA-25-150 Pawnee project I should do something with...its apart, and needing to be caught up on all the airworthiness directives that have been piling up on them.
One of the worst AD's is the wing attach AD..FAA airworthiness directive (AD 95-12-01) on Piper Model PA-25 series Pawnee aircraft.
Since the AD came out, there were about 3 STC holders for fixing the fuselage...and not one has an active website anymore...so probably nobody out there to sell you a "fix"
The other option is an NDT inspection and repetitive tear downs every two years as I understand.
The only website that addresses the NDT part is Acorn Welding in Alberta Canada...a little far for me.
Anybody know of any current options on this AD...Must be someone closer that can do the NDT inspections.
Thanks..
 
Its been years, but as i recall we got the kits from Piper. Don’t recall any STCs.
1/8 inch thick 4130 plate, fish mouth shaped, 16-18 inches long. Lots of rivets...
 
Opps. Just read your post closer. I was thinking of the front wing spar attachment; rather then the fuselage.
 
Did you try Schweizer? 607-739-3821 STC SA01359AT

Aerospace Welding Minneapolis
800-597-4315 STC SA00992AT

I don’t recall off the top of my head, but one still requires wing pulls for NDI inspection on a calendar basis.


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Opps. Just read your post closer. I was thinking of the front wing spar attachment; rather then the fuselage.
I appreciate your posts anyway, I wasn't even aware of the aluminum spar beef up offered by Univair.
Looks like that AD applies to the PA-235 and 260...but I'll see if it applies to the PA-25-150 as well...
The wing attach fittings on the fuselage are the ones that applied to all the PA-25 series....but different STC's used different methods for their compliance...one was just a weld on gusset (STC Solutions) and the other two were (Schweizer and Kosola) that actually cut out the whole tubing cluster and welded in a new one...pretty expensive and took jigs to do it properly.
At one time there was a soaring club that posted photos of the Schweizer STC but I can't find that site anymore..
I suspect that all the Pawnee airframes still in use have already complied to the AD...
The other option is an initial NDT inspection and then tear downs every two years if you cant get an STC'd permanent repair.
Thanks for your help CubPilot2...I'm learning more and more about this AD magnet.
 
Thanks Dgapilot, I didn't think about Schweizer...but I did talk to someone at Aerospace Welding Incorporated in Minneapolis yesterday.
They acquired Kosola a number of years ago, and they still do offer the Kosola STC and returnable jigs to repair the cluster.
If this airframe I have would pass the NDT testing, It would be nice not to have to hack it up and replace the whole cluster area, and just weld in the reinforcing gusset like the other STC allowed (STC Solutions).
Anybody familiar with anybody that did the testing and repairing of the airframes that have been done already in my general area ( Minn, Iowa, North and South Dakota)?
 
I used to maintain 3 PA-25s, and I think each had different STCs for the fix. Two were permanent with no further inspection beyond a normal visual at annual, and the third required a wing pull every 5 or 8 years to do a dye penetrant inspection. If it was my airplane, and it’s apart, id do one of the permanent repairs and be done with it.

I think Harris Hill was the web site that had the pictures. It was done so long ago, I suspect they have revamped their web site and took the pictures down.


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Randy, glad to hear that Aerospace Welding picked up the Kosola STC for PA-25 front spar carry-through. Regarding the Schweizer STC, you might check with K&L Soaring , since they're supporting most of the "legacy" (read: "orphan") Schweizer sailplanes. Their website is: www.klsoaring.com .

Sounds like you've done your homework, but for folks looking up this thread in future, there are a few things to know about the Pawnees:
* Piper no longer has the Type Certificate. It's now held by Latino Americano de Aviacion (LAVIA). This can be confusing when searching for TCDS, A.D.'s and STC's.
* Univair has a nice link in the "Resources" section of their catalogue with much of this information conveniently in one place. And there are actually two Type Certificates, 2A8 for Standard Airworthiness, and 2A10 for Restricted Airworthiness.
* Johnston Aircraft supports Pawnees fairly well in the U.S., especially for stuff that Univair doesn't have.

And there are three "big" A.D.'s on the Pawnee to be concerned with:
1. The front spar carry-through which started this string
2. Wing struts, similar to the other strut-braced Pipers (Univair has sealed a$$emblies, eliminating repetitive NDT)
3. Horizontal stabilizer attach. LAVIA has an outrageously priced kit to replace the stub tubes, requires a welding fixture and TIG work; some have gotten AMOC for repetitive inspections

From what I've observed in the fleet, unless the STC'd components are actually installed, these have been handled with "Bic" compliance, i.e., pencil-whipped. Caveat Emptor.

Randy, hope this works out well for you. Please let us know.

Thanks. cubscout
 
Got a PA-25-150 Pawnee project I should do something with...its apart, and needing to be caught up on all the airworthiness directives that have been piling up on them.
One of the worst AD's is the wing attach AD..FAA airworthiness directive (AD 95-12-01) on Piper Model PA-25 series Pawnee aircraft.
Since the AD came out, there were about 3 STC holders for fixing the fuselage...and not one has an active website anymore...so probably nobody out there to sell you a "fix"
The other option is an NDT inspection and repetitive tear downs every two years as I understand.
The only website that addresses the NDT part is Acorn Welding in Alberta Canada...a little far for me.
Anybody know of any current options on this AD...Must be someone closer that can do the NDT inspections.
Thanks..

Turn it upside down and build a super cub?

Glenn
 
Randy, glad to hear that Aerospace Welding picked up the Kosola STC for PA-25 front spar carry-through. Regarding the Schweizer STC, you might check with K&L Soaring , since they're supporting most of the "legacy" (read: "orphan") Schweizer sailplanes. Their website is: www.klsoaring.com .

Sounds like you've done your homework, but for folks looking up this thread in future, there are a few things to know about the Pawnees:
* Piper no longer has the Type Certificate. It's now held by Latino Americano de Aviacion (LAVIA). This can be confusing when searching for TCDS, A.D.'s and STC's.
* Univair has a nice link in the "Resources" section of their catalogue with much of this information conveniently in one place. And there are actually two Type Certificates, 2A8 for Standard Airworthiness, and 2A10 for Restricted Airworthiness.
* Johnston Aircraft supports Pawnees fairly well in the U.S., especially for stuff that Univair doesn't have.

And there are three "big" A.D.'s on the Pawnee to be concerned with:
1. The front spar carry-through which started this string
2. Wing struts, similar to the other strut-braced Pipers (Univair has sealed a$$emblies, eliminating repetitive NDT)
3. Horizontal stabilizer attach. LAVIA has an outrageously priced kit to replace the stub tubes, requires a welding fixture and TIG work; some have gotten AMOC for repetitive inspections

From what I've observed in the fleet, unless the STC'd components are actually installed, these have been handled with "Bic" compliance, i.e., pencil-whipped. Caveat Emptor.

Randy, hope this works out well for you. Please let us know.

Thanks. cubscout

Great information Cubscout, Thank You.
Good on Univair for posting the STC's in one place for both 2A8 and 2A10 tpe certificates.
One that I was hoping to find was an STC for installing an 0-360 in a PA-25-150 airframe. There used to be field approvals for that, but maybe not these days?
Supposedly Mike Horton from Lubbock Texas has got this STC but so far no luck...Earl Horton ( His Dad) Horton Aero Service had it.

I've also been trying to look up the Laviasa information and keep coming up with a blank..all sites seem to be dead.
Be a shame if they went under and the Type Certificate was lost.
Might be tough to get support for that stabilizer AD?
Its been a learning experience so far...I hope that there are affordable solutions...even fixed up and legal this airframe wouldn't have much value unless it would be as a time builder for an aspiring ag student.
Thank you again.
Randy
 
You think the new fittings are thick enough? 8)
20160109_105727.jpg


And I thought the service buletin on the rear stab attach fitting on the Husky was overkill.
20160109_105706.jpg
 

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The kit from Johnston works well.
20160109_103332.jpg


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Steve, interesting pictures...definitely is thicker :)
My pilot Dad always said if he had to design an aircraft, it would be too heavy to fly.
Is that the Laviasa STC repair? Did you need a jig to repair, or could you use the stabilizers for a jig?

Edit, I see that there was a jig for the repair...
 
Soaring clubs seem to like those planes! Twin Oaks in Hillsboro Or. maintains a couple for the local soaring club.

They seem hard to find.
 
I've also been trying to look up the Laviasa information and keep coming up with a blank..all sites seem to be dead.
Be a shame if they went under and the Type Certificate was lost.
Might be tough to get support for that stabilizer AD?
If you do run into a stone wall on this, your local FSDO has the ability to call in the FAA's copies of all of the drawings etc. from the region which holds the type certificate. You can then view them in their office.
 
If you have interest in the Schweizer Pawnee wing attach STC, contact K&L Soaring.

607-594-3329
866-408-1316

K&L is owned and operated by Les and Kyle Schweizer.
 
Here's an image of an installed Kosola front spar carry-through. This one is on a "D" model with wing tanks, and battery just behind firewall:

Kosola Frt Spar Carry-through.jpg

Note the bung and plug.

Thanks. cubscout
 

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Randy,

How did you make out on this project?

I only ask out of curiosity as I noticed that Ioe Dory is advertising a collection of Pawnee parts, essentially enough to make one complete aircraft (sans engine) and close to a second. As I was enamoured with Pawnees, Wagons, Snows, Thrush’s and such in my youth, I was thinking someone with a few bucks in his pocket and some free time could build a pretty cool little tandem place pawnee for fun sorties.

Based on other threads it appears the airfoil is the same as a Cub, so one could apply the same stol enhancing features, and incorporate a bit of “lightening” or wing extensions while you’re building. Could get that stall speed down close to cub range.

I did a quick mock-up of one to see how it would look. More fun.
57C4BE43-6479-40E4-883C-DA042C3F9E06.jpeg

Side note : there’s also a new Titan O-360 just listed on barnstormers for 26k....
 

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Farmboy, there actually was an STC for a two-seat conversion for the PA-25 Pawnee, presumably for training; an improvement over the "checkpilot" sitting in the hopper making hand gestures perhaps. I've seen a couple, and if anything they are even uglier than your rendering (no offense intended), and I don't say that about many aeroplanes. :lol: No direct experience with that variant though.

Thanks. cubscout
 
Farmboy, there actually was an STC for a two-seat conversion for the PA-25 Pawnee, presumably for training; an improvement over the "checkpilot" sitting in the hopper making hand gestures perhaps. I've seen a couple, and if anything they are even uglier than your rendering (no offense intended), and I don't say that about many aeroplanes. :lol: No direct experience with that variant though.

Thanks. cubscout

Farmboy, that rendering is pretty accurate, those modified Pawnees were pretty ugly....
I got the drawings and the STC years ago, but at that time I just wanted to do the conversion and have an experimental aircraft.
http://jself.com/pawnee/
Now the 51% rule changed all that...so the project is languishing ( Cubdrvr Dave...you just be quiet :), poor crop farmers with daughters getting married have no discretionary money).
The 150 Pawnee is very limited in what anybody can do with it, too small to actually make a living with in the application business...and if you were going to comply with all the Airworthiness Directives you would be upside down a long ways in any value it might have.
If you wanted an aircraft just to fly or build time toward an applicators licence maybe you could justify the money.
Trouble with fixing up a 150 Pawnee, I've seen 235 Pawnees sell in flying condition with the AD's done already for about 1/3 to 1/2 of what it would cost to fix up a little one.
The PA-25 is still are a viable aircraft in the southern hemisphere, a company named Laviasa holds the type certificate and builds a pretty slick version.
https://laviaargentina.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xn6TFH-Sb4

They also have a version that is a two place version with a bubble canopy...kind of looked like they were aiming to market that version as a sport plane or a military training craft for banana republics.
Still fairly ugly, but a little better.
https://laviaargentina.com/aeronave/biplaza-puelche/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=qHjcM3VCaRY
 
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Ha! Has a little bit of a big RV look.
Well, all those reasons are probably why Joe has 3 incomplete portions for sale as a cluster. :)

Not sure why someone would convert one for training - Alphonse would just take you up in a 172/Lark Commander and show you how to crop dust. Over and over again proving it’s the pilot not the airplane.


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We use a lot of Pawnees in glider towing. My club has two 235 Pawnees upgraded to 250. Another club I used to be in has a PA-25-150 that was upgraded to a 180. I know of another PA-25-150 that has an O470 installed. They are also used a lot for banner towing. A couple years ago prices were low, but in recent times, Pawnee prices have gone up quite a bit.


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