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Thread: Champion/ACA Owners....Anyone?

  1. #81
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcabpilot View Post
    It took me awhile to get used to the Champs oleos and I’m talking about the heavy duty “no bounce” gear that hangs down about half a foot all pigeon-toed. It works well if you just drop it on and it can absorb an astounding amount of downward momentum but if you try to grease it on it’s very rare that both oleos compress at the same time so you get that weird leaning to one side but still tracking straight down the runway situation. True to it’s name though it’s almost impossible to “bounce” and lord knows I’ve tried.

    But when you've slowed to a taxi there’s very little oleo travel left, no more than an inch and you are riding on the short taxi springs. That’s when I can feel it bottoming if I’m on rough ground. The Cub gear is kind of the opposite in that it’s basically at the top of its travel in that situation and has plenty to give if you run over a gofer hole. The Airstreaks give the Champ a much smoother taxi, I’ve never been on anything bigger than 8.50’s and I was pleased with how they handled. They also didn’t seem to slow me down, still hauled along at 85 mph.
    Have you checked the oil level?

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  2. #82
    kcabpilot's Avatar
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    Just did the annual, 8.5 ounces of 5606 for the no-bounce gear. I’m talking about the Champ oleo gear in general, not just my specific aircraft. They all perform like this.

  3. #83
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcabpilot View Post
    Just did the annual, 8.5 ounces of 5606 for the no-bounce gear. I’m talking about the Champ oleo gear in general, not just my specific aircraft. They all perform like this.
    My 7AC/7CCM convert, non no bounce gear had about 3" of travel in taxi mode. Smooooooooooth

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcabpilot View Post
    Just did the annual, 8.5 ounces of 5606 for the no-bounce gear. I’m talking about the Champ oleo gear in general, not just my specific aircraft. They all perform like this.
    My experience with a 7GC is similar. I might be one of the few who ran stock no-bounce gear and then switched to field approved supercub style gear. I loved the cub gear with skis on uneven, chopped up snow such as where snowmachines had been around. While great for the landing, the no-bounce gear just couldn't soak up the bumps on roll-out and takeoff, and it felt like it put too much stress on the airframe. The cub gear was just as good on wheels in a variety of off-airport operations, including big rocks and dips, bumpy sandbars, and the like. It also had other advantages, such as being taller, wider, and lighter than stock, but I always thought the bungee-hydrosorb was a much better fit for off airport flying with the Champ, and the best mod I put on the airplane.

  5. #85

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    I built the first set of Champ gear legs to use stock Supercub hydrosorbs and shock struts in 1973. I built a jig to weld up
    the gear Vees and loaned it to others over the years. This was done after I traveled to anchorage and talked to
    Attlee Dodge about my idea for cub type gear on a champ. He told me to forget it it won’t work kid.
    I went ahead and did it anyway and it’s been well liked and copied
    Stan

  6. #86
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcabpilot View Post
    ..... but if you try to grease it on itís very rare that both oleos compress at the same time so you get that weird leaning to one side but still tracking straight down the runway situation.

    But when you've slowed to a taxi thereís very little oleo travel left, no more than an inch and you are riding on the short taxi springs. Thatís when I can feel it bottoming if Iím on rough ground. .
    When was the last time that the gear was off the airplane for a good inspection as this does not sound right? Something is binding. I watched a fellow land once with one gear hanging down after whatever was supposed to hold it up had broken. The whole shock mechanism had fallen out of the housing.
    N1PA

  7. #87

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    My buddy just got this a few weeks ago up in Walker, MN. haven't had a chance to fly her yet as the wx has been so miserable. 20181002_155750 (1).jpg
    If you get lost while flying, don't try hail a cop. Pick up the first railroad you find and hug it until you get somewhere.
    Likes 8GCBC liked this post

  8. #88
    kcabpilot's Avatar
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    skywagon8a - as I said I’m not talking about just my particular aircraft, this is how the no-bounce gear acts as it has a much longer stroke than the standard oleo gear. It will also extend on takeoff roll if you keep the tail down at around 25 mph increasing the AOA and shortening the run for soft field use. It’s a good setup in many aspects I just don’t think it has enough sponge at taxi on rough ground but the Airstreaks seem to solve that issue from what I’ve seen so far.

    I’ve added a picture that shows how much more travel the oleos have over standard gear.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by kcabpilot; 10-04-2018 at 10:28 AM.

  9. #89
    kcabpilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChampManStan View Post
    I built the first set of Champ gear legs to use stock Supercub hydrosorbs and shock struts in 1973. I built a jig to weld up
    the gear Vees and loaned it to others over the years. This was done after I traveled to anchorage and talked to
    Attlee Dodge about my idea for cub type gear on a champ. He told me to forget it it won’t work kid.
    I went ahead and did it anyway and it’s been well liked and copied
    Stan
    That might explain this picture I took of a plane at Calaveras a few years back, obviously an Aeronca but the gear had me scratching my head.,
    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. #90
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    kcabpilot, I used to own a 7GCB with the no bounce gear and never experienced an uneven gear extension as you have described. I also learned to fly in a 7AC with the original gear and never in that model did I experience an uneven gear extension. That Is why I asked the question. If it were mine I would be concerned.
    N1PA

  11. #91
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flylowslow View Post
    My buddy just got this a few weeks ago up in Walker, MN. haven't had a chance to fly her yet as the wx has been so miserable. 20181002_155750 (1).jpg
    Perhaps it is just the picture but that airplane appears to be too nose high on the floats. Check the part numbers which are stamped on the struts. They should be Front 69649, Diagonal 62650, Rear 62651.
    This is the parts catalog: http://www.kenmoreairharbor.com/uplo..._airplanes.pdf
    N1PA

  12. #92
    kcabpilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    kcabpilot, I used to own a 7GCB with the no bounce gear and never experienced an uneven gear extension as you have described. I also learned to fly in a 7AC with the original gear and never in that model did I experience an uneven gear extension. That Is why I asked the question. If it were mine I would be concerned.
    I don’t think it happens with the standard gear and won’t be noticeable with the no-bounce if you plant it firmly but it’s a well known “feature” that even Budd Davisson commented on in one of his pireps years ago and has been widely discussed. The no-bounce gear was developed for the L-16 and as I said it is great for spot landings where you just keep your controlled descent rate and don’t even flare. It can absorb a heck of a lot of inertia and true to its name - no bounce.

  13. #93
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Whatever, I'm not in the habit of planting any airplane firmly. Just the opposite, I strive to not feel the touchdown at all in whatever airplane I may be flying. If I can feel the touch down I assume that I did something wrong.
    N1PA

  14. #94
    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
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    I dont own one but im about to go out with a new pilot with a new 7gc tomorrow to do some meneuvers and get him aquainted with his new chimp. Its a nice plane with a lot of room (but its not a cub). Its a nose dragger converted to tailwheel. Should be fun (for a champ).
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers

  15. #95

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    OK. A note of sarcasm in there? Not a problem. Have a great safe flight tomorrow.

  16. #96
    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HalfTonChamp View Post
    OK. A note of sarcasm in there? Not a problem. Have a great safe flight tomorrow.
    Thanks! Got to yank some chains once and a while when the opportunity presents itself.

    I do have a question for you champ drivers. I see this one has a fuel drain in the tail and have found out what its for. My question is: do people tear them out regularly in the brush or is it fairly safe.
    Last edited by Cub Special Ed; 10-04-2018 at 08:06 PM.
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers
    Thanks tripper thanked for this post

  17. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cub Special Ed View Post
    Thanks! Got to yank some chains once and a while when the opportunity presents itself.

    I do have a question for you champ drivers. I see this one has a fuel drain in the tail and have found out what its for. My question is: do people tear them out regularly in the brush or is it fairly safe.
    In the BRUSH!? Hey, these Champs wonít go in the brush. Theyíre not Cubs!😊
    You mean the fuel drain about baggage area underneath? I havenít. Donít know if others have but I havent heard about it. Or thought about it since you mention it.

  18. #98
    kcabpilot's Avatar
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    Yea any “brush” that would grab onto it would have to make it past the lower gear supports first.

  19. #99
    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
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    This one was a tri champ converted. It has wing tanks that just gravity feed between the two. No selector, just on and off. The junction at the rear above baggage where the fuel lines come together has a drain that runs to the belly behind baggage area. New to me also as ive only flown 7ac and citabrias (did i just admit that? Damn social media!). Just happened to notice it when i was looking the plane over. Probably wouldnt be an issue if they wern't shaped like a weiner dog!
    sitting-7_680-453.jpg
    Similarities?
    07-574_562.jpg

    Here's mine. Lol
    0108181431a.jpg
    Last edited by Cub Special Ed; 10-04-2018 at 09:50 PM.
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers

  20. #100
    kcabpilot's Avatar
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    When Champion owned the TC they came out with some bizarre iterations. After the failure of the tricycle geared FC I guess they had so many left over nose wheels that they tried selling the 7JC - Tricon. Probably one of the weirdest looking airplanes you'd ever see and I doubt there are any left that haven't mercifully been converted back to a regular EC with a tailwheel.


    They also made the Lancer, a twin engined Champ that had a yoke in the front seat and a stick in the back seat.
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  21. #101
    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
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    Well, he had a great time with his new champ! Very comfortable now and a direct 9 gusting 18kt wind. Very nice champ but heavy as hell on the contols. Overall, sweet bird (but still not a cub). I am inpressed. If i didnt have a cub id buy one.
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers

  22. #102
    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
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    Heres the cross country pa11. Some weird stuff done with cubs also.
    3a4293784312b898f2f7bc1a3199c13c.jpg
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers
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  23. #103

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    I love this forum, and learn a lot here. I am sure Steve won't mind me saying this - we should take this over to Bart's new forum, which is devoted to Champs, and breathe a little more life into that worthwhile discussion group.
    Likes Brandsman, pfm, HalfTonChamp liked this post

  24. #104

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    Does that cross country 11 fly twice as nice, or 1/2 as nice as an original 11? I'd never seen that before!

  25. #105
    kcabpilot's Avatar
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    Too lazy to look up the link but there's a whole story behind that twin 11, used at airshows for a number of years back when flying was still wondrous and fun.

  26. #106
    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcabpilot View Post
    Too lazy to look up the link but there's a whole story behind that twin 11, used at airshows for a number of years back when flying was still wondrous and fun.
    A man named wagner. Think he did a pacer to.
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers

  27. #107
    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
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    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers

  28. #108
    kcabpilot's Avatar
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    That's freakin' crazy, there's absolutely no reason to do that other than to just prove you can do it.

  29. #109
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    N2612Z I know that plane and some of its unique history
    Thank a sheepdog today for they are standing guard!

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