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Thread: Champion/ACA Owners....Anyone?

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    Champion/ACA Owners....Anyone?

    Hi folks,

    New to the site in search of Stewart Systems info, I own a '68 Champion 7ECA.

    Anyone else here with Champion or ACA aircraft? There's an active group on Facebook but forums sites are so much better!

    Thanks,
    Bart
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    I have a 1976 7GCBC, know a few other members who fly scouts. Are you doing a milman spar/leading edge conversion on your eca? Mine still has wood spars, post up some pics of that wing build

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    Hi A.

    Yes, doing the Milman conversion, spars and leading edges. Wood spars on mine were fine but I hit a hawk and rather than spend money on the repair we decided to do the spar conversion and resolve the damage in the process. It's a really nice package and it's going fine so far. I'll post pics next time I log in from the laptop that has the photos on it.

    Bart

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    Scouter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart23Sept View Post
    Hi folks,

    New to the site in search of Stewart Systems info, I own a '68 Champion 7ECA.

    Anyone else here with Champion or ACA aircraft? There's an active group on Facebook but forums sites are so much better!

    Thanks,
    Bart
    if you hang around here very long you will drink the koolaid and not look back
    well, you will think about flying a plane with heat��
    Former Scout person
    jim
    Attachment 34654



    Last edited by Scouter; 01-13-2018 at 06:31 PM.

  5. #5

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    I have a 1977 Super Decathlon with IFR panel, a kill switch to protect the instruments when upside down, and aluminum gear legs. Somebody near Petaluma covered it in 1992 with Ceconite/dope. I have yet to see a better fabric job - the guy is better than me!

    This airplane is a perfect second aircraft for me. I fly the Cub every day, and the Dec once a week. I am in love!

    I lament the near demise of the Aeronca forum. I need a source for the Dec that is as good as this forum is for Cubs and 180s. The Club forum is restricted, and I did not get much for my club dues.

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    Let me find a photo:
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Instruments:
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Hi Bob,
    You were a lot of help (at the J3 forums) as I was looking for a Cub before buying the Citabria back in 2016. That's a very nice Super D and I agree it's too bad the club forums aren't more active.
    Bart

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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart23Sept View Post
    There's an active group on Facebook but forums sites are so much better!
    I agree, seems like questions asked on Facebook get responces from all sorts. I run a Short Wing Piper website and we have a Facebook page. When questions get asked on FB I try and link a thread on the website in responce. The website willbe here and searchable for years to come and it seems to me that the people who participate on the websites have a more vested interest in the airplanes and better knowledge.

    Welcome aboard. I use to maintain several Champs and Citabrias. My brother has a nice 7FC converted to 7EC Champ project. As far as information on Stewarts system I would search it here, lots of information. Try entering "Stewarts" in the Google search box on the home page. Works better than the search box in the right hand corner.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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    Thanks for the search tip Steve. As a former forums owner/host I usually bypass the search feature after a few tries since they're usually on the weak side but I'll try what you said.

    Bart

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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    You can also enter your word string followed by "site:supercub.org" in Google and get the same results as the search box on the home page.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart23Sept View Post
    Hi folks,


    Anyone else here with Champion or ACA aircraft?

    Thanks,
    Bart
    Why would anyone on a cub forum want a plane that flies faster, has a larger cabin, costs less, and the early one will out climb the J-3?

    There are a few great Champ owners on here, as well as Scouts and Bob with his Decath.

    Funny how most everywhere the average guy on here goes there is a Scout or Champ with them... or should I say 'ahead'.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

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    I spent six months shopping for a Cub, had my heart set on a Cub for all of the usual reasons......and bought a 7ECA. But let's not go there, we're outnumbered here! lol
    Last edited by Bart23Sept; 01-14-2018 at 12:52 PM.

  14. #14
    Cub junkie's Avatar
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    7 eca is a much better airplane than a cub

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    Needed more fuel, W&B, cruise speed, and MT prop for Canada and PNW. But, I like cubs for training and local flights. I love the people at ACA too!

    Beaver Marsh:
    IMG_5171.PNG

    Oregon Lake:
    IMG_5107.JPG

    Glacier Bay, SE AK
    IMG_4786.JPG

    Abyss Lake, SE AK:
    IMG_4774.JPG

    Canada:
    IMG_4557.jpg
    '09 8GCBC: 2100A, 31136.R, 8.566, C3000A
    IA/A&P, ATP, SES, CFII, MEI (2500 TT)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXI48e1heuo
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    The people at ACA are certainly nice and helpful. Prices are beyond my capability. A $30 landing gear bolt was $128 from them five years ago. They wanted a hundred bucks for a copy of a drawing!

    I can understand - they have families to support. I just have to watch the budget.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 8GCBC View Post
    Needed more fuel, W&B, cruise speed, and MT prop for Canada and PNW. But, I like cubs for training and local flights. I love the people at ACA too!

    Beaver Marsh:
    IMG_5171.PNG

    Oregon Lake:
    IMG_5107.JPG

    Glacier Bay, SE AK
    IMG_4786.JPG

    Abyss Lake, SE AK:
    IMG_4774.JPG

    Canada:
    IMG_4557.jpg

    What is your legal useful load on amphibs?

  18. #18
    8GCBC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G44 View Post
    What is your legal useful load on amphibs?
    Please click here, for general W&B data:

    https://www.wipaire.com/aircraft_pag...-8gcbc/#floats
    '09 8GCBC: 2100A, 31136.R, 8.566, C3000A
    IA/A&P, ATP, SES, CFII, MEI (2500 TT)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXI48e1heuo

  19. #19
    G44's Avatar
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    I have seen all the published numbers from the manufactures which are usually very optimistic. I want to real world numbers, that is why I asked.

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    Real world numbers on amphibs? One pilot, enough ballast to get within envelope, 30 minutes of gas. Real operations ? Load it up and go?

    My Decathlon on wheels carries me at 190, the Greek at 120, and enough gas to actually go somewhere, and it is at gross!

  21. #21
    G44's Avatar
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    I guess its a big secret. Oh well...

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    Quote Originally Posted by G44 View Post
    I guess its a big secret. Oh well...
    Hi G44, what do you fly?

  23. #23
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    Husky.
    Dad had a Scout he wanted to put amphibs on.
    Uncle has a Scout
    Last edited by G44; 01-15-2018 at 12:24 PM.

  24. #24

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    gotcha. how much of a difference would you expect between 8GCBC's numbers and what is published by Wipaire?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart23Sept View Post
    gotcha. how much of a difference would you expect between 8GCBC's numbers and what is published by Wipaire?
    Actually I do not know, that is why I asked. I have had experience and have seen different numbers from "published" over the years on various mods including amphibs. When considering installing anything it is nice to know what the actual numbers others have experienced, it helps in the decision making process as to weather or not this is a mod I would like to do myself.
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    maybe shoot him a PM? or call Wipaire to see how close the real numbers come to what is published? How's the Husky with amphibs? Numbers work out OK?

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    Flew a buddy’s full IFR Husky on Amphibs a couple of years ago. When we got back, I asked him what the useful was. He grinned and said 320 pounds....... glad I asked after we got back....
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart23Sept View Post
    maybe shoot him a PM? or call Wipaire to see how close the real numbers come to what is published? How's the Husky with amphibs? Numbers work out OK?
    According to Wip's published numbers, about 600 pounds on my IFR equipped A1-C. Will know more when my buddy's A-1C that is going on amphibs this spring is weighed (not calculated but actually weighed).

    Sorry to the original poster for the thread drift.
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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Todd Peterson who does the Katmai conversions on the C180 told me you never weigh a Cessna, always calculate it. If you weigh it you will lose useful load. I believe Piper is the same.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

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    hmmm, i was going to weigh my 7ECA when the wings and annual are done. now you've got me a'scared.
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    Ya, my IA has a set of scales and does a fair number of weigh jobs in New England. He can’t think of a time when a customer was happy with the results.....
    Last edited by mam90; 01-15-2018 at 03:48 PM. Reason: typo

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    Quote Originally Posted by mam90 View Post
    Ya, my IA has a set of scales and does a fair number of weigh jobs in New England. He can’t think of a time when a customer has happy with the results.....
    can a plane be unweighed once it's been put on scales by an A&P?

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    I would imagine if it’s being weighed as the result of alteration or repair, probably not. If you have a current weight and balance and just weigh it out of curiousity, then I suppose there could be some discussion... But I’m not an AMT or IA.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart23Sept View Post
    hmmm, i was going to weigh my 7ECA when the wings and annual are done. now you've got me a'scared.
    I weighed my 1965 7ECA when I bought it. Seller and W&B history said it was 1020 lbs. We replaced the “unapproved - no 337” tractor store battery with a Concorde (about 5 lbs lighter - surprise!), and the heavy pull-starter (O-200) with a Sky-Tech lightweight (about 7 lbs lighter, and weighed it. Came in at 1027 lbs. I was quite happy that it was that close to “as advertised”...

    i don’t believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, or “calculated” W&B data. If the plane is actually heavier that the calculated data shows, I want to know that. I don’t understand pilot / Owners who refuse to weigh their planes “because it will weigh more”... Guess what’s? It already weighs more, and if you’re pushing the W&B envelope at the “assumed” lighter weight, you may be flying over gross, and possibly outside the CG envelope – but you won’t know one way or the other. Wouldn’t you rather know for sure, before you break something (maybe even yourself or a loved one)?
    Jim Parker
    '65 Champion 7ECA - Flying
    ?? Bearhawk Patrol - Building
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    Hit “Post” too soon... As to the OP’s original question, the “Citabria-Decathlon-Scout ~Pilots - Owners - Enthusiasts” group on Facebook has far more activity then the Bellanca club site, and the ACA factory folks hang out on FB and answer tons of questions.. Dale Gauger in particular is the “go-to” guy for answers.
    Jim Parker
    '65 Champion 7ECA - Flying
    ?? Bearhawk Patrol - Building
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  36. #36

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    I am with Steve Pierce, and ready to take heat for it. Weighing a 7ECA is apprently not risky, but weighing a Cub will yield a single place airplane. Jim is partially correct; you do want to know what you really weigh. But if you want to shoot yourself in the foot, put a note on a 337 and send it to OKC. That can make your perfectly good Cub virtually unsellable.

    We have a local Super Cub with a 400 lb useful load. It is just another Cub, not one with big tires or anything. It doesn't even have heavy duty gear or big tires. But all its 337s say "will be weighed on assembly". No mechanic with any sense will falsify a weigh-in, and you have to have a weight and balance.

    Another local Cub - a J-3 - took a trip to the scales. Only mod is C-90-8 and metal prop. 850 lbs! That leaves 370 lbs useful load. That is the owner, me, and zero fuel, and still way over gross. Climbs like a rocket with the 90 and a metal prop.

  37. #37
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Local had a PA-12 that had been recovered, factory seating and baggage, radio, electrical, and normal panel. Stock except for an O-320, 74x?? prop, 8.00x6 and Clevelands. "Weighed" whatever it was from the factory or about mid 900's plus very slight adds for the engine/prop/wheels and had the papers to prove it. Probably still does for the new owner. Everybody happy.

    My 7ECA was over 1100 and 7GCBC started at about 1170 then ate a Big Mac.

    Gary

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    Quote Originally Posted by bob turner View Post
    .............but weighing a Cub will yield a single place airplane.......... .
    i never heard that about Cubs. Clipped Wing Cubs yes, but not long wing Cubs.

  39. #39

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    One would think a clipped wing would weigh less.

    The Super Cubs seem to have come from the factory at 1077 lbs. (at least the 150 Cubs). The J-3s were apparently weighed, and range from about 690 to 725 lbs. If you put a J-3 on the scales today you will be lucky to be under 800 lbs. I have seen Super Cubs on wheels approaching 1300 lbs from scales.

    An owner who wishes to legally carry two adults and full fuel would do well to not send any hint of an event on scales to the records branch. All you need is a separate sheet signed by an A&P. I am not at all sure the signature is required. Do not mention a weighing event on a 337. That is an opinion, but I believe it to be perfectly legal. If you want, you can always state "Weight and Balance and Equipment List updated." I do that in the logbook and on the 337.
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    I should add - I was very careful with my Super Decathlon. I weigh 190, the Greek weighs maybe 115, and legally I think with the two of us and zero baggage we can carry 37 gallons - very close to full. Computed, not weighed.

    We did have a 7ECA here for a while that was weighed after a recover with lots of automotive urethane. It was within five lbs of original factory weight. Be interesting to know if Champion had more honest scales than Piper.
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