Thanks Thanks:  0
Results 1 to 27 of 27

Thread: 200 hp Javron

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    17
    Post Thanks / Like

    200 hp Javron

    I read a lot about 160 hp vs 180 hp SCs and the positive increase in overall performance. We are applying the Cont. Titan X370 200 hp engine to a wide body JAVRON build. Catto 84 x 45. Other than the standard +20 hp answer - can anyone provide real-world feedback on the change in performance we may see? Doing web searches I cannot find much info regarding 200 hp SCs.

  2. #2
    cubdriver2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    upstate NY
    Posts
    8,239
    Post Thanks / Like
    What will it weigh?

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    17
    Post Thanks / Like
    Would hope we could see something less than 1150 lbs. Will have 31s

  4. #4
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    7,335
    Post Thanks / Like
    Run it with the CG towards the aft end of the range for best performance. Do a spread sheet weight and balance. Load it as you would fly it with baggage and back seat passenger with full fuel. If your calculations of most rearward CG are forward of 20" aft of the wing LE place some fixed ballast at the tail post.
    N1PA

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Anchorage, AK.
    Posts
    2,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    I'm curious. What was your design objective when you selected 200hp and a fixed pitch prop? No criticism. It ought to be a beast. The rate of climb should be excellent and remain excellent with a load.
    Last edited by stewartb; 01-11-2018 at 05:05 PM.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    17
    Post Thanks / Like
    Regarding my design objective - great question. Our airport (El Paso, TX)is challenged by DA. Not uncommon to see 7000 DA by 11 AM during the summer months. A O320 (160) at 7000 DA is only able to make approximately 130 HP. The X370 under the same conditions should make 160 HP. That said I thought the additional HP would work in our favor. As for a fixed pitch CATTO - I am a big fan of SIMPLICITY in aircraft design and maintenance. This same logic is seen in our panel. Single G3X with a few switches. See thread - Another Javron build for those details.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Anchorage, AK.
    Posts
    2,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Does your engine have a hollow crank?

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    17
    Post Thanks / Like
    It is a hollow crank...

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Anchorage, AK.
    Posts
    2,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Future options! I'm looking forward to pireps. Good luck with the firewall forward.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Illinois & Wisconsin
    Posts
    522
    Post Thanks / Like
    For the added weight, wouldn't a 180 hp and a constant speed prop work better?

  11. #11

    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    10
    Post Thanks / Like
    Elpcub, I am also going with a Titan 0-370 on a wide body Javron cub with ground adjustable Whirlwind prop. Jay welded up a conical mount with lowered thrust line mod. With lightweight accessories, this should be comparable weight to a parallel valve 0-360. My reasons for going with this engine are 8000 ft mountains, the Cascades, just east of me. Good luck on your project and let’s stay in touch!

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Anchorage, AK.
    Posts
    2,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Is anyone flying the Titan 370 in a Cub airframe? How are the engine temps? Are you guys doing anything out of the ordinary to manage the engine temps?
    Likes L18C-95 liked this post

  13. #13
    cgoldy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Mountain Creek NSW Australia
    Posts
    315
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Is anyone flying the Titan 370 in a Cub airframe? How are the engine temps? Are you guys doing anything out of the ordinary to manage the engine temps?
    I have been running the o-370 8.5:1 in a Javron wide body for 8 years now and have come to the conclusion that the oil cooling system design needs particular attention. Regularly fly at above 100 deg OAT and never see more than 370 deg CHT but 210 to 230 deg oil temp is common at these ambient Temps.

    I have a sweet spot to fly. Too slow and temps go up. Too fast and temps go up. 2300 at 22 inches. About 78 knots. It's all about managing the power produced / air speed. Fly at gross weight in these temps and you must be diligent.

    Before all you boffins start another oil temp debate and start criticising my baffles. They are fine. Just saying, if you are designing a build using a high HP motor, think about the oil temp issue.

    Appart from that, a sweet sweet motor built by Aerosport. Rarely use all that Hp but when you need it, it's great. It's like a little money in the bank.

    Goldy
    Back Country O-375 wide body extended wing cub

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Anchorage, AK.
    Posts
    2,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    I'm always interested in how some hot-rod parallel valve engines have hot CHTs and others have hot oil temps, in seemingly similar installations.

    How is the Titan 370 different from the Aerosport Power 375? I see the 370 uses 9.6:1 compression. What else?
    Last edited by stewartb; 01-12-2018 at 05:19 PM.

  15. #15

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    17
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Is anyone flying the Titan 370 in a Cub airframe? How are the engine temps? Are you guys doing anything out of the ordinary to manage the engine temps?

    Concerning engine cooling. I figured this thread might drift to this very important topic since additional HP was being applied.


    For the oil we will place the Aero Classic 7 row oil cooler out on the nose bowl. Looking at following the design used by a Backcountry rev 2 poster here on sc.org. This is also the proven method Mooney used for years on their 20s. The oil cooler is applied directly to the nose bowl without the traditional PA18 oil cooler nose bowl intake scoop. Nice smooth nose bowl. This also reduces the increase chance for additional air pressure being built in the lower cowling chamber which is also a bad thing. In the center area of the nose bowl just below the fly wheel we are riveting and glassing in two 40 thousands (sandwich the nose bowl) pieces of aluminum to create the required support structure to mount the light weight oil cooler too.


    For the CHT we plan to apply all the lessons learned from this forum. There is no one solution to beating down CHTs moving through he air at 85 mph. As many will testify it requires valuable time spent in both the high and low pressure chambers to get it right. Some go with a single or dual plenum in the high pressure area. Most folks spend loads of hrs during phase one redesigning to reduce CHTs. Again we are simply going with the most common positive results posted on this and many sites.


    We plan to go the baffle and seal route with several modifications. Most notably are large inlet ramps, quality seal material applied to the baffles, building out the baffle behind the #3 cylinder, closing out the JOG behind the #4 cylinder for a single seal across the back and a clean airlock on the inter cylinder baffles. Additionally we will port the heat muff scat tube from the rear area behind the #4 cylinder where most folks attach their oil cooler. Plan to cover that port during high temperature months to maintain the greatest degree of high pressure in the upper chamber.


    In the lower chamber it is key to provide a exit area with an aggressive lip to set condition for air to flow. Plan to also add two exit vents directly to the lower cowling panel. One area often over looked is the opening behind the round air filter on carburetor set ups. To the degree possible this area needs to be closed of as well to prevent unwanted high pressure from building up in the low chamber area.


    RTV, RTV, RTV to tie it altogether.


    Now. You can get all this right and still have resulting high CHTs. How so you might ask - employ the wrong carburetor. Many CC Titan 340 guys will agree that the best change they ever made was removing the 4SPA jumping to the 4-5 to gain proper fuel flow.
    Likes FdxLou liked this post

  16. #16

    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    17
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by cgoldy View Post
    I have been running the o-370 8.5:1 in a Javron wide body for 8 years now and have come to the conclusion that the oil cooling system design needs particular attention. Regularly fly at above 100 deg OAT and never see more than 370 deg CHT but 210 to 230 deg oil temp is common at these ambient Temps.

    I have a sweet spot to fly. Too slow and temps go up. Too fast and temps go up. 2300 at 22 inches. About 78 knots. It's all about managing the power produced / air speed. Fly at gross weight in these temps and you must be diligent.

    Before all you boffins start another oil temp debate and start criticising my baffles. They are fine. Just saying, if you are designing a build using a high HP motor, think about the oil temp issue.

    Appart from that, a sweet sweet motor built by Aerosport. Rarely use all that Hp but when you need it, it's great. It's like a little money in the bank.

    Goldy
    Goldy. Where is your oil cooler mounted. On the nose bowl??? Behind #4 cylinder?

  17. #17
    PerryB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Northern Calif.
    Posts
    1,329
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by cgoldy View Post

    Before all you boffins start another oil temp debate and start criticising my baffles. They are fine.

    Goldy
    This is Supercub.org. I think the word you were looking for is "Buffoon". BTW, check your baffles....
    After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF !

  18. #18
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Toledo, Wa (KTDO)
    Posts
    2,696
    Post Thanks / Like
    Boffin is a British slang term for a scientist, engineer, or other person engaged in technical or scientific research and development
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boffin

    So maybe it's not as bad as it sounds. Or maybe worse?
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO
    My SPOT: tinyurl.com/N4328M (case sensitive)

  19. #19
    PerryB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Northern Calif.
    Posts
    1,329
    Post Thanks / Like
    HA! I say "Buffoon" and look who checks in....
    The boffin I mean, I would never slander you Gordon. Now where's that rolling eye emoji when I need it ?!
    After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF !
    Likes Gordon Misch liked this post

  20. #20
    PerryB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Northern Calif.
    Posts
    1,329
    Post Thanks / Like
    Sorry, you're just such a convenient target.

    P.S. I had to look it up too. I kinda assumed it meant something akin to buffoon. When I discovered the opposite, my screwed up little mind decided to have some fun with it and then "BAM"! here's Gordon. I just couldn't let such an opportunity go. It wouldn't be right for my idiom. -- Now we find out who the Monty Python fans are. "I'm not dead yet".
    After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF !
    Likes Gordon Misch liked this post

  21. #21
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Toledo, Wa (KTDO)
    Posts
    2,696
    Post Thanks / Like
    Always delightful to have friends who are consistently correctable
    Last edited by Gordon Misch; 01-13-2018 at 12:47 AM.
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO
    My SPOT: tinyurl.com/N4328M (case sensitive)
    Likes FdxLou liked this post

  22. #22
    cgoldy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Mountain Creek NSW Australia
    Posts
    315
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post

    How is the Titan 370 different from the Aerosport Power 375? I see the 370 uses 9.6:1 compression. What else?
    Actually, that's an interesting question for me. My motor (O-375 low compression from Bart) has rocker covers on it with "Titan" stamped on them. At the risk of sounding ignorant, what does that signify?

    Goldy
    Back Country O-375 wide body extended wing cub

  23. #23
    cgoldy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Mountain Creek NSW Australia
    Posts
    315
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by elpcub View Post
    Goldy. Where is your oil cooler mounted. On the nose bowl??? Behind #4 cylinder?
    Behind # 4 but considering moving it to the nose bowl. I like your plan. You have obviously thought this problem through.
    Back Country O-375 wide body extended wing cub

  24. #24

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Anchorage, AK.
    Posts
    2,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by cgoldy View Post
    Actually, that's an interesting question for me. My motor (O-375 low compression from Bart) has rocker covers on it with "Titan" stamped on them. At the risk of sounding ignorant, what does that signify?

    Goldy
    Titan was a brand name that ECI used for their cylinders and experimental engines just like Millennium is a brand name for Superior Air Parts. Continental bought ECI and continues to use the Titan brand name for non-Continental cylinders and exp engines. Aerosport still lists their 375 engine and Titan sells a complete 370 engine. I don't know much about either one.

    What size cooler do you have on the rear baffle? When I built my 160hp -12 I used the 9 vein Niagara 20003A to increase cooling capacity. It required partial covering to maintain normal oil temps. I'd think a 9 vein cooler would be standard equipment for any hot-rodded engine, or any engine in 100* climates whether on the nose or the rear baffle. My new plane has two coolers in the nose.
    Last edited by stewartb; 01-13-2018 at 11:44 AM.
    Likes DENNY liked this post

  25. #25

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,112
    Post Thanks / Like
    I have the 9 vein behind #4 on my 160 hp cub it works great. I do have the vertical plate behind #4 with hook on the top to help direct air to the cylinder. The hot rod engines do make some heat so anything that can be done helps.
    DENNY
    Last edited by DENNY; 01-13-2018 at 07:21 PM.

  26. #26
    mvivion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Bozeman,MT
    Posts
    9,446
    Post Thanks / Like
    As a point of reference, when Aviat put the IO 360 angle valve 200 hp engine in the Husky, they had to go to two oil coolers to meet certification (read worst case) Standards. That cowling also has side vents.

    MTV

  27. #27

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Anchorage, AK.
    Posts
    2,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    I didn’t know that. Where do they mount the two coolers? How are they plumbed? Anyone have pictures?
    Last edited by stewartb; 01-13-2018 at 09:02 PM.

Similar Threads

  1. Progress on Javron Cub
    By wdoubleday in forum Experimental Cubs
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-02-2017, 06:32 AM
  2. L-21 Javron
    By avnxtek in forum Member Projects in Progress
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 09-12-2017, 01:45 PM
  3. Building a Javron Cub
    By Bill Rusk in forum Member Projects in Progress
    Replies: 2090
    Last Post: 04-29-2017, 10:55 AM
  4. New Javron Build
    By flyanozira in forum Cafe Supercub
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 11-06-2015, 09:08 AM
  5. Ron Building Javron Cub 1
    By ron cope in forum Member Projects in Progress
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 05-25-2015, 05:31 AM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •