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Thread: Garmin Pilot/Foreflight Setup in Alaska

  1. #1

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    Garmin Pilot/Foreflight Setup in Alaska

    Hello,

    Located in Alaska and looking at Garmin Pilot or Foreflight on a tablet and had a few questions. Ive read past posts which have me leaning towards the Garmin application due to living in Alaska and having reduced cell/4g access. I still have a few questions to get me going.

    Application is a vfr cub w/o ads-b. Currently have a garmin 296 gps. My initial purpose behind adding this software to my flying is to not have to continue purchasing current charts (still carry expired paper charts) and to assist in my flight planning.

    1. Any recent experience/recommendations in the last year on Garmin vs Foreflight preference in Alaska?
    2. What tablet do you prefer for the application (data capacity, size and brand) ? I prefer not to have another data plan and would use the gps capability of the tablet? I do not require apple however if there is increased app capability then it would be of interest.
    3. With the tablet recommendation what mount do you prefer?
    4. Are additional GPS sensor/antenna required or recommended for use?
    5. Does Garmin Pilot/foreflight replace your current GPS (in my case garmin 296) or is it supplemental?

    Thanks for the assistance and any other recommendations are greatly appreciated!

  2. #2
    mvivion's Avatar
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    I don't have experience with these softwares in Alaska, but be advised that Foreflight only plays on I Pad/I Phone.

    This stuff is pure magic. I use Foreflight on an IPad mini in the lower 48, and it is simply wonderful. You don't need cell coverage to make it navigate, by the way. With cell coverage, you can get weather, but....

    I use the Mini as a kneeboard. Attach a strap to a good case, and its fine.

    MTV
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  3. #3

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    Both apps work great. I prefer Garmin Pilot. More guys prefer Foreflight. I like a topo view on a moving map and Garmin has that. Features are similar between the two.

    My charts and other database updates load automatically. I like that a lot. Obstacles, high def terrain, runway diagrams... lots of cool stuff. All that plus about 1/3 of Alaska charts consume about 1-1/2 gigs of memory.

    Cell iPads have GPS receivers built in. Wifi models do not. You can add a bluetooth GPS receiver for about a hundred bucks but it’s easier to buy a cell iPad and not connect it to a cell plan. Or add a Stratus or GDL39 to get ADS-B services. That takes care of the GPS, too.

    I never use my panel mounted Aera. My iPhone running Garmin Pilot is much more capable and is easier to use. Plus it has music, other apps, takes pictures, and even makes phone calls!
    Last edited by stewartb; 01-09-2018 at 07:40 PM.

  4. #4

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    I have thoroughly enjoyed using Foreflight for the past year (I have not used Garmin's product at all). Foreflight's screen navigation seems very intuitive, has what you need where. Very easy to be sitting at home on the couch, when you're thinking about flying that day, and quickly getting the big picture of weather, route planning, etc.

    I will second the fact about Ipads and lack of GPS capability in some models. I have an Ipad Mini4 that's not cell capable and learned after the fact that I needed the cell capable model for GPS features, which I was first slightly bummed about. For fun, I built a stratux (http://stratux.me/) for around $150, and it has worked great. Little airplane marks my spot (just in case I forget how to use a map, and keep track where I am and will also show me updated METAR data and traffic.. When I'm around Fairbanks and picking up a tower. It's fun handing the ipad to infrequent flyers in the back seat who can following along.

    Cheers

  5. #5
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    1. Any recent experience/recommendations in the last year on Garmin vs Foreflight preference in Alaska?
    As I've stated elsewhere I've had Foreflight since its beginning and Garmin Pilot for at least three years now. Pilot's VFR Map (which I use almost exclusively) and terrain map have better resolution then Foreflight. Garmin's Smart Airspace, which is far ahead of Foreflight's, is an excellent feature- especially when trying to navigate in/under/around/between more complex airspace such as the Anchorage area (or OMG San Diego CA). Foreflight has Canada fuel prices if that's important to you, Pilot does not.

    2. What tablet do you prefer for the application (data capacity, size and brand) ? I prefer not to have another data plan and would use the gps capability of the tablet? I do not require apple however if there is increased app capability then it would be of interest.
    As has already been said Foreflight only runs on iDevices, Pilot runs on both but has a bigger feature set on iDevices, which may/may not be of value to you. As far as horsepower I always buy the biggest with the mostest- but I can write if off as a business expense and I need to stay current with technology for my business. As far as size I prefer the iPad Mini.

    3. With the tablet recommendation what mount do you prefer?
    In the SQ2 I have the Mini panel mounted. In the 185 I had the Mini in an X brace up on the windshield where the whiskey compass used to mount. In my next 185 I will panel mount the Mini.

    4. Are additional GPS sensor/antenna required or recommended for use?
    No, the built in GPS antenna is more then sufficient. As previously stated if you want ADS-B In you can get that with either a Stratus or a GDL 39. The advantage of the GDL 39 is it works with both Foreflight and Garmin Pilot. The disadvantage is its black in color, Stratus is white in color and has a built-in cooling fan. For Alaska operations the color probably doesn't matter. I owned both a Stratus 1 and a Stratus 2, sold those and decided on a GDL 39. If you decide to purchase a Stratus or GDL 39 (and plan on using it all the time) then you will have the option of purchasing a Wifi only iPad as both those devices have builtin WAAS GPS. Oh, if you want the best Wx coverage and display be sure and get the cell version and a data plan, or tether it to your iPhone. Cell supplied Wx display is superior to ADS-B Wx display. And Pilot's Wx display is superior to Foreflight's.

    5. Does Garmin Pilot/foreflight replace your current GPS (in my case garmin 296) or is it supplemental?
    Absolutely replaces everything else. A 795 in the SQ2 and a GTN650 in the 185. An iPad with either Pilot or Foreflight is far superior technology, and a lot less costly- unless you need the ability to do IFR approaches.

    Another advantage of Pilot over Foreflight...although both allow a subscription to be on three devices, Pilot doesn't care what the device is, Foreflight does- they restrict it to one iPhone and two iPads. I carry an AT&T iPhone and a Verizon iPhone for those places in Alaska that don't have AT&T but do have Verizon - such as areas of The Wrangells.

  6. #6

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    Garmin Pilot/Foreflight Setup in Alaska

    Iím using Foreflight with the Stratus 2. The synthetic vision is nice...use iphone 7 plus in a suction mount to the lower corner of the wind shield. Knee pad for the eye pad....donít use synthetic vision much on my lap. In my yet to be finished PA20 the iPad Air cellular version is mounted in the panel with a flypad mount.. my cell service is GCI...Verizon and AT&T are not in most villages in rural Alaska, whereas GCI is in every village. In rural Alaska believe AT&T works in Bethel, Dillingham, Nome and Egigik. Not a clue on Verizon service coverage..




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    Last edited by Mark_Moyle; 01-09-2018 at 10:10 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_Moyle View Post
    ..my cell service is GCI...Verizon and AT&T are not in most villages in rural Alaska, whereas GCI is in every village. In rural Alaska believe AT&T works in Bethel, Dillingham, Nome and Egigik. Not a clue on Verizon
    Verizon must have some deal with GCI because it uses that network when itís own isnít available but GCI is.


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  8. #8
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Cell iPads have GPS receivers built in. Wifi models do not.
    I use a Samsung Android tablet with Garmin Pilot. It does not have cell capability but does have good GPS.

    Edit: I can set up the phone as a hotspot, then the tablet can have internet. But I haven't done that for flight purposes. I get in-flight XM weather by wifi to the tablet.

    An iPad with either Pilot or Foreflight is far superior technology, and a lot less costly- unless you need the ability to do IFR approaches.
    Garmin Pilot on my Android does include geo-referenced approach plates. It is also possible to superimpose the approach plate on the main map, with user-selectable opacity.
    Last edited by Gordon Misch; 01-09-2018 at 10:37 PM.
    Gordon

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  9. #9
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    I am a ForeFlight fan. You DO NOT need to have cell service to have all of your electronic charts/plates/AFD supplements, or other documents when you fly, they are downloaded on your iPad/iPhone. I have an iPad mini with no cell phone, and get GPS from Stratus 2S/ESB. Connect to WiFi when not flying to get preflight info and like SB said all charts, plates, documents automatically update on the FAA cycle.

    Do yourself a favor and at least get ADS-B IN to drive ForeFlight or Garmin Pilot. You can do this with an $800 Stratus or a $200 Stratux. Then you get AHRS, synthetic vision, traffic (limited to ADS-B IN only coverage, but helpful), weather, and radar as your flying.




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  10. #10
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vj88 View Post
    Hello,

    Located in Alaska and looking at Garmin Pilot or Foreflight on a tablet and had a few questions.
    Have you looked at Avare? https://apps4av.com/ I haven't tried it but it appears to cover Alaska.
    N1PA

  11. #11

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    Another advantage for cell service is when you have it? You can look at the weathercams. I still use MCS Mike's app all the time, especially on fuzzy days.
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  12. #12

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    My primary is a Garmin 660 and love it, but I like Garmin Pilot in my iPad mini for flight planning and it is my number 1 go to for terrain while flying in the mountains. I’ve never used Foreflight but have many friends that use it and like it. I think what happens is everyone likes the one they start out with and don’t want to learn a new system. I have to say though, terrain on GP is the bomb!

  13. #13
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    I use Avare.
    No Alaska experience, but it works great in western Washington.
    I originally got it to use as an electronic chart, and planned on using my old G-196 as my primary nav.
    But the tablet quickly became "nav 1" and got wired to a spare circuit breaker.
    I still have the 196 mounted in the airplane but rarely turn it on.

    Avare is an android-only app. I bought an 8" Samsung tablet specifically to use Avare.
    I paid $200 at Best Buy a couple years ago for mine, but I just saw them at Costco for $120.
    No cell capability, I download charts wx etc via wifi or a cellphone hotspot.

    Do you have an android cellphone?
    If so, it won't cost you anything to download Avare & give it a try.
    It does most of the stuff the other apps do,
    but like most things it requires some familiarity to use.
    Here's a link to the Avare website.

    https://apps4av.com/
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  14. #14
    Barnstormer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Misch View Post
    ...I get in-flight XM weather by wifi to the tablet.

    Garmin Pilot on my Android does include geo-referenced approach plates. It is also possible to superimpose the approach plate on the main map, with user-selectable opacity.
    Foreflight also has geo-referenced plates but we can't legally use Foreflight or Pilot for IFR approaches, we can use them for reference purposes like the plates you mentioned but not for actually flying (navigating) the approach- I should have been more clear.

    XM weather isn't available in Alaska except in parts of Southeast, I wish it was.

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  15. #15

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    I have a garmin 795 in my cub and really like how easy it is to use and see. I know several pilots that use foreflight and love it. We are thinking of putting that with iPad in our 180. If you are flying part 91 you do not need current charts or current gps download. I usually grab a current pink book in the spring it makes trip planning easy. If I had to do it over I would get a iPad and firelight great bang for the buck.
    DENNY

  16. #16

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    I use an iPad mini with Foreflight. The iPad uses a simple magnetic mount stuck to the right side of my panel. Doesn't cover any panel instruments nor does it stick up high enough to restrict my view. I like that I can easily lift it off if I want to hold it in my hands.

    I also have a Garmin Area 660 that I just purchased to replace the Area 500 that came with my cub. I use the Garmin mount for the 660 and will be using the GPS output capability to feed GPS data to my 406 ELT and eventually to an EI FP-5L fuel monitor.

    I have a Stratux set up for ads-b in and it works pretty well. That also keeps me on Foreflight. Eventually I'll probably move to either a Stratus or Garmin GDL product (maybe the GDL 82).

    For now I've settled on Foreflight for my flight planing and primary navigating but am still waffling whether to stay with Foreflight or switch to Garmin Pilot since I have the Aera 660.

    jeff

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    Love or hate Garmin, there's no denying they execute well. Currently, Garmin Pilot (GP) offers detailed road maps via OpenStreetMaps as a choice for background maps in flight, which is nice for more populated areas but not so helpful in AK. Still, it's pretty amazing.

    Also not mentioned yet is Garmin's recent integration of the Inreach satellite communicator with GP. I use the Inreach as my communication & tracking device as opposed to a Spot, SpiderTracks, satphone, etc. GP now allows me to write texts on my iPad Mini and send them with the Bluetooth-connected Inreach. This can be done from the most remote areas of Alaska.

    Also, GP has search grid overlays on its maps to assist in SAR ops, weight & balance calculator and a host of other stuff that I find myself using.

    As previously mentioned, the iPad Mini is a good choice, but getting the cellular-enabled model is necessary for an internal GPS. I like redundancy, so it made sense to have that.

    After using a tablet and Garmin Pilot since early 2012 (it seems like longer), I am still amazed at the capability we can easily and relatively cheaply carry in our cockpits. I remember lugging around an 80 lb. satellite communication unit in the 90's. How times have changed.
    Last edited by JohnnyR; 01-10-2018 at 10:35 PM.

  18. #18

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    As I said, I love my 660 and one of the benefits with GP on the iPad is to Bluetooth the flight plan from the iPad to the 660. But the terrain on the GP iPad is excellent. I have no experience with it in Alaska though.

  19. #19

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    Does the 660 serve as the same purpose as the stratus/gdl? If so Does the 660 offer more detailed maps than the 296?


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  20. #20

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    I have this, with Avare app that's free https://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung...nium/5000029.p

    Should work great in Alaska as long as you have a gps coverage. The built in GPS in the tablet works well. I have to use an ipad at work and it is so buggy, the droid works smooth and no problems so far, my ipad at work locks up in the jepp app it's a mess.

    Avare is free so you don't have to pay anything for a moving map chart, you could buy the tablet from bestbuy and download avare and a few maps, it has IAP charts, VFR sectional and WACS, a ton of info, as much as my jepp app does at work that I hate LOL

    $169. dollars for the 8 inch samsung tab, it's exactly the same size as ipad mini, try it for two weeks and if you don't like it, i can't imagine that though, but if you decide want the more expensive stuff than best buy gives you two weeks to return it for a full refund. But I highly doubt you will be disapointed with the samsung tablet or avare app, it just rocks.
    Last edited by Supertwotwo; 01-11-2018 at 01:22 PM.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by vj88 View Post
    Does the 660 serve as the same purpose as the stratus/gdl? If so Does the 660 offer more detailed maps than the 296?


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
    There is an excellent discussion of your questions over at BeechTalk
    https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/vie...?f=34&t=120026


    Sporty's has a nice page devoted to telling us all about the Aera 660.
    http://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/gar...-americas.html


    The maps and functions are greatly enhanced over the older 296 units.

    You would still need either a portable or panel mount ADS-B/FIS-B "in" source to see the FIS-B weather and ADS-B traffic displayed on the Garmin 660. You would not need such to merely have a moving map and IFR charts/IAP's.

    And, keep in mind that both the Garmin Pilot software on an iPad or Android device (iPads work better, in my experience) and the Garmin Aera portables
    require
    a Garmin source for the ADS-B/FIS-B info., such as the GDL39 antenna or the GTX345 transponder/ADS-B transceiver unit. Again, either type of device will run maps & plates without the ADS-B "in," but having that additional info displayed in the cockpit is a true game changer for cross country and IFR flights.

    The Garmin devices will not interpret/display data from the Stratus or other non-Garmin portable antennas, or other non-Garmin ADS-B transceivers like the Lynx.

    Foreflight is now able to get an ADS-B/FIS-B signal from a Garmin GDL39 antenna https://www.foreflight.com/connect/garmin/
    Last edited by JohnnyR; 01-11-2018 at 12:49 PM.

  22. #22
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    That's the same one I have.
    I see Best Buy has them down to $170 now, mine cost me $200 there a couple years ago.
    I saw the same tablet at Costco the other day for $120.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  23. #23

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    Yes, I have seen them for 129 at bestbuy. I have had several droid tablets, none with the cell service, the avare app only needs gps not a cell service, I read a few posts about ipad requiring cell service to have a gps, that must be apple ipad thing, no droids i ever had were cell service, wifi only and they all have built in gps and work avare just fine.

    If I am using my droid tablet to watch a movie during airline flights deadheading home I will pop avare open and see where i am, locks on and shows us scooting along the moving map, gives my position airspeed altitude eta everything the jet gives me LOL awesome app

  24. #24

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    I started with Foreflight and a couple years ago I tried Garmin Pilot, but went back to foreflight because I like operating with a split screen showing the moving map and synthetic vision. I don't know how it is now but at the time garmin pilot wouldn't let me operate with a split screen.

    The iPad is mounted on end and sticking slightly above the panel but low enough that it does not restrict the view over the nose at all. Synthetic vision is at the top and the moving map is underneath and it's kind a cool to Glance down in synthetic vision and see the same view as out the window, with no head movement that might induce vertigo if the conditions were wrong.
    Last edited by logjam; 01-14-2018 at 06:01 AM.
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  25. #25

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    I Have Avare.
    At this time I cannot say I have found all it's features but I do feel it truly lacks compared to FF or GP. I have Avare on both an older TF101 and a new LG 8" Droid. The older one has no cell, both have decent GPS.
    One feature I like is the ADSB In only needs an antenna, just a total of $30 including the needed App.
    I would say this is not an App I would use as my primary flight system but it will still guide you to where you desire to go.

  26. #26

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    GP with the iPad Mini/iPad/iPhone has the split screen function showing both the moving map and synthetic vision.

    There are numerous discussions of the differences b/t the various apps on www.pilotsofamerica.com and www.beechtalk.com

    I suggest prospective buyers check out those sites, as there are literally hundreds of pilots' inputs.

    For a quick and dirty overview, check out https://ipadpilotnews.com/2017/04/fo...que-strengths/ I think Garmin developers must have read the review, because most of the issues brought up therein have been dealt with.

    Quote Originally Posted by logjam View Post
    I started with Foreflight and a couple years ago I tried Garmin Pilot, but went back to foreflight because I like operating with a split screen showing the moving map and synthetic vision. I don't know how it is now but at the time garmin pilot wouldn't let me operate with a split screen.

    The iPad is mounted on end and sticking slightly above the panel but low enough that it does not restrict the view over the nose at all. Synthetic vision is at the top and the moving map is underneath and it's kind a cool to Glance down in synthetic vision and see the same view as out the window, with no head movement that might induce vertigo if the conditions were wrong.
    Last edited by JohnnyR; 01-14-2018 at 10:12 AM.
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  27. #27

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    Garmin Pilot/Foreflight Setup in Alaska

    In the Pilot app select the map page, then menu at the upper right, then select split screen from the drop down. A little arrow will appear in the margin to open or close a split screen view. Open the view and the arrow is in the middle where the two views are divided. Immediately above that arrow is a menu tab to select what you want to see in the split screen. You can easily toggle the map view from topo to chart to IFR chart, adjust overlays and opacities, etc, or dance around the menu to change the view on the right pane. I canít remember GP not having a split screen view.




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    Last edited by stewartb; 01-14-2018 at 10:34 AM.
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  28. #28

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    iPad Pro offers multi tasking features that include split screen to use multiple apps at the same time. Garmin pilot doesnít play well with the iOs split screen but I can open another app in an overlay. Hereís GP with the Gaia GPS app running in an overlay. I can see chart or topo view on GP and see a Google Earth view in Gaia, and those views are downloadable to use when not in cell range. This stuff isnít important for short local flights but itíll be nice to have for some flights.





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  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by vj88 View Post
    Application is a vfr cub w/o ads-b. Currently have a garmin 296 gps. My initial purpose behind adding this software to my flying is to not have to continue purchasing current charts (still carry expired paper charts) and to assist in my flight planning.
    If thats all you are looking for than Avare will do the job. Current charts are free downloads done from the Avare app.

    If you want more than a nice moving map GPS tablet with free charts there is a ton of info in this thread LOL, but if you only want to replace buying charts and have a nice moving map tablet than Avare does a great job of that and free.


    Quote Originally Posted by vj88 View Post

    1. Any recent experience/recommendations in the last year on Garmin vs Foreflight preference in Alaska?
    2. What tablet do you prefer for the application (data capacity, size and brand) ? I prefer not to have another data plan and would use the gps capability of the tablet? I do not require apple however if there is increased app capability then it would be of interest.
    3. With the tablet recommendation what mount do you prefer?
    4. Are additional GPS sensor/antenna required or recommended for use?
    5. Does Garmin Pilot/foreflight replace your current GPS (in my case garmin 296) or is it supplemental?

    Thanks for the assistance and any other recommendations are greatly appreciated!
    1. No Alaska experience or GP or Foreflight. Avare covers all my moving map GPS navigation needs.

    2. Mentioned above, Samsung Droid wifi only model has built in GPS receiver thats all that Avare needs.

    3. Two inch wide velco strips from Ace Hardware, velcro strip on top of dash and another where bottom of tablet rests on panel, 2 velcro strips on back of tablet, secures well.

    4. No only built in tablet GPS required, no cell service needed.

    5. Avare app is primary, does all navigation requirements. Have back up installed on my Droid phone with all Sectional, Wac and Instrument approach charts downloaded in case tablet fails.

  30. #30
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    After seeing all the options here, I'm kinda glad I just have Avare.
    "Multi-tasking" with split screens, etc sounds like too much distraction for me.
    As a passenger, great, but as a pilot?
    I'd probably tend to not look out the window enough.

    But then again, I can't play a proper game of cribbage if people have having a conversation within hearing distance.
    Probably got a bit of ADD going on maybe?
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  31. #31

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    Thanks for setting me straight about split screen in Garmin Pilot. I could use a split screen moving map/ guages but couldn't get synthetic vision/moving map. I talked to their help people and at the same time asked about user way points in synthetic vision. Could be that i confused them with too many questions or confused myself with too many answers. Either way I might look at Garmin pilot again thanks.

  32. #32
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Garmin Pilot doesn't do split screen on my Android phone, but it does fine on my Android tablet. Don't even have to go to the menu at the upper right, as Stewart showed; there's a little arrow at the bottom of the map screen that enables split screen.

    I haven't tried using the multiple apps to share the screen, as Stewart showed, though that might be a good way to have Google Maps (road maps) share the screen with Garmin Pilot. Gotta check that out. Thanks, Stewart.
    Gordon

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    Gordon, it doesn’t split screen on iPhone, either. Just my iPad.

  34. #34
    AK_Logan's Avatar
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    I've been using Garmin Pilot with a IPad mini and a Garmin GLO for gps for a few years now. The app is great and Garmin has been doing a really good job lately with useful updates that really make things better. I do not have the newest Inreach but I want it for the integration between them both. I have had issues with the GLO tho. The battery all but died after about a year and a half so now it just has to be plugged in. Isn't a huge deal for now but I want to give the GDL a go and see if it's worth upgrading to. The ADS will be nice but adds more features to the screen you prolly shouldn't be focused on anyways.
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  35. #35

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    For anyone interested in Garmin Pilot, here’s a webinar that Garmin did that’s available in their archives. Just do the simple registration and it begins. Make sure you turn on the sound at the lower right corner speaker icon.

    https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/rec...59341518563330
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  36. #36
    WanaBNACub's Avatar
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    I have been using Garmin pilot since I started flying. I have also tried Foreflight and I am currently flying with 2 others that use Foreflight. Both programs have pretty much exactly the same features, just in a slightly different layout. I prefer the Garmin interface as it is almost identical to my 660 and all the other garmin products that I have used over the years, but you cant go wrong with either one. I am not sure if they still offer it, but both would let you try it free for a month a while back.


  37. #37
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Garmin Pilot version 6.3.0 has downloaded onto my tablet, and the accompanying notes include "New: Added radar coverage mask".

    I don't know what this means, I haven't found those words in the menu tree, and haven't found anything online. Anybody know about this?
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO
    My SPOT: tinyurl.com/N4328M (case sensitive)

  38. #38

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    In iOS you click on the maps icon and you can choose your preferred weather radar and IR weather displays and colors.

  39. #39

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    Thanks for the info everyone. Yesterday was my first flight with the samsung tab A and garmin pilot.


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
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  40. #40
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    In iOS you click on the maps icon and you can choose your preferred weather radar and IR weather displays and colors.
    Thanks Stewart. Yes, that is the second bullet point in the release notes, and I found that and played with it.

    But then the third bullet point is "New: Added radar coverage mask". Because they're separate bullet points, I have to assume they are separate features. But I still haven't found that third one.

    Any additional ideas anyone?
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO
    My SPOT: tinyurl.com/N4328M (case sensitive)

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