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Thread: non certified floats on certified plane

  1. #1

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    non certified floats on certified plane

    it seems the lsa and experimental market has exploded some in the float area.

    is anyone familiar with what it would take to get an approval for non certified floats on to an old tcraft

  2. #2
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    I tried once with a home built set of Montana amphibs on a certified PA-18. I was friendly with the chief of engineering for the NE FAA. Tried to get them approved in the restricted category. It would have required a bunch of engineering on my part and flight tests. Too much even with my connections. Perhaps we could have hired a DAR, my friend who owned the plane didn't want to go there. So he sold the floats and bought a set of Wips. It sure flew nicely on the Montanas though.
    N1PA
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  3. #3
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Maybe bootleg an Edo sticker onto a set of (composite) floats?
    Kinda like the McCatto prop deal.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  4. #4
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    Maybe bootleg an Edo sticker onto a set of (composite) floats?
    Kinda like the McCatto prop deal.
    Except that EDO has a metal data plate riveted to each float. And years ago there was someone making EDO copies using stolen data plates. The evidence popped up when it was discovered that the data plates were out of date.
    Last edited by skywagon8a; 12-17-2017 at 12:38 PM.
    N1PA

  5. #5
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Well, yeah, anyone taking a close look, esp if they know their floats,
    and the jig is up.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

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    yeah just makes me wonder being the only plane on the lake

  7. #7

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    Sell the T-cart and buy a similar experimental?

  8. #8

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    yeah thought about it... be tough to get into it for the price I'm in this.. and i need to be responsible and find a 4 place plane since we just had a kid and all of our friends live 4 to 10 hr drives away

  9. #9
    mvivion's Avatar
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    There are EDO 1320s show up with some regularity.....and probably cheaper than those last floats. Find a set that needs some work or not, bolt em on and splash.

    MTV
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    mvivion any suggestions where to shop.. I'm in oklahoma but willing to look.. have seen some pop up on craigs list some but didn't know if there were better options

  11. #11
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    This is a source for new floats. http://aquafloat.com/products/aqua-model-1500/ They may be able to point you towards some second hand floats.
    N1PA

  12. #12
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Check Barnstormers.
    I just did--
    the very first set of floats listed under "Edo"are 1320's w/ T-Craft rigging.
    $5K, located near Atlanta GA.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  13. #13
    Fat Kid's Avatar
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    Anchorage Craig's list had a set of 1500's and 1320's with Tcraft rigging needing repair.

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    Good luck with that one. I got Baumann 1500 amphib approved after replacing 1500 straight Baumann on my Tcraft F21. It took 9 months with 6 of that trying to find a DAR who knew what to do to satisfy the feds. I had to do some re-drawing of prints while he wrote the notes. Two months of waiting for the feds to take a look and find their right guy to sign it. Worth the effort since I have been back and forth to arctic Labrador twice with those floats. If you just want straight floats, find EDO 1320s. Lots around. Try Ed Peck up in Nova Scotia. I can give you the name of the DAR if you send me a PM.

    Jim
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  15. #15

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    flat top 1500 in wasilla now to figure out how to ship here

  16. #16

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    Took me about 2 1/2 years to get the Baumann 1500 Amphibs field approved on my 11. Was into it really deep when Baumann closed the door on me but lucky I had some really good help. I have a set of EDO 1320's with cub rigging that will probably never go back on my 11 but sounds like ones with t-craft rigging would be a good deal if not in really rough condition.

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    so my plane has a 85hp and gw increase to 1500.. whats it like flying at 1500 on 1320s

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    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swoeric View Post
    so my plane has a 85hp and gw increase to 1500.. whats it like flying at 1500 on 1320s
    You shouldn't be doing that but it will do it if your careful

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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    cafi19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Except that EDO has a metal data plate riveted to each float. And years ago there was someone making EDO copies using stolen data plates. The evidence popped up when it was discovered that the data plates were out of date.
    Yup. I remember that deal as well. Seems to me he is no longer with us.

    cafi

  20. #20
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swoeric View Post
    so my plane has a 85hp and gw increase to 1500.. whats it like flying at 1500 on 1320s
    Main float buoyancy.
    (a) Each main float must have -
    (1) A buoyancy of 80 percent in excess of the buoyancy required by that float to support its portion of the maximum weight of the seaplane or amphibian in fresh water;

    Minimum floatation for 1500 lbs gross weight-- 1500 x 0.9=1350
    Maximum gross weight for 1320 displacement-- 1320/0.9=1466.7lbs

    If your plane has a gross weight of 1500 lbs it will be restricted to 1466 lbs when on 1320 floats.
    N1PA

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    First you need a climb prop, if you don’t have one you will need at least 1/2 mile of water depending on floats. I have owned two different t-craft the 1320’s lightly loads are fine. loaded to 1500 lbs at least double the amount of water needed. Best floats for the airplane are Baumann’s 1420’s or 1500’s or edo 1400. Most people don’t realize you have a useful load greater than 500lbs
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  22. #22
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mnjoe View Post
    First you need a climb prop, if you don’t have one you will need at least 1/2 mile of water depending on floats. I have owned two different t-craft the 1320’s lightly loads are fine. loaded to 1500 lbs at least double the amount of water needed. Best floats for the airplane are Baumann’s 1420’s or 1500’s or edo 1400. Most people don’t realize you have a useful load greater than 500lbs
    1400s are the biggest dog EDO ever built, um..,.. maybe tied with 1650s. Ask any old timer who flew everything EDO ever built and they will tell you that EDO has tried to replicate the performance of 1320 in every float they built and failed. Round top floats with flat hulls suck compared to concave hulled flat top 1140s and 1320s.
    All modern floats that perform hulls are copies of early 1140 and 1320s EDOs no matter who is building them

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
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  23. #23
    supercrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    1400s are the biggest dog EDO ever built, um..,.. maybe tied with 1650s. Ask any old timer who flew everything EDO ever built and they will tell you that EDO has tried to replicate the performance of 1320 in every float they built and failed. Round top floats with flat hulls suck compared to concave hulled flat top 1140s and 1320s.
    All modern floats that perform hulls are copies of early 1140 and 1320s EDOs no matter who is building them
    Glenn
    Glenn, I agree with you for the most part; always loved my 1320's. But to be fair if you shorten the rear struts on a set of 1400's to match the incidence of the 1320's it makes a HUGE difference, and makes them very usable. I think they must have flattened the incidence on the 1400's to gain cruise speed? Why else would you change something that works?
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  24. #24

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    super appreciate all of the awesome information.. east west i have probably 2 miles without making a turn either way up the lake north south i can also line up 2 miles but would have .5 mile taxi to the house

  25. #25
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    The strut length adjusting deal may not be an approved method in case someone wonders. I've done it on EDO 2000's/PA-18 but didn't last two flights before was returned to factory specs (rear strut lengthened 3/4"; heels hit more on takeoff). I saw an F-19 on PK1800's that did it and removed the mod as well for the same reason. Manufacturers do lots of tests we never know about before they arrive at a compromise.

    The OP wants T-Craft floats and there's many options here. This was also discussed elsewhere on the Taylorcraft Forum to a lesser degree.

    Hope it works out ok,

    Gary

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by TcraftF21 View Post
    Good luck with that one. I got Baumann 1500 amphib approved after replacing 1500 straight Baumann on my Tcraft F21. It took 9 months with 6 of that trying to find a DAR who knew what to do to satisfy the feds. I had to do some re-drawing of prints while he wrote the notes. Two months of waiting for the feds to take a look and find their right guy to sign it. Worth the effort since I have been back and forth to arctic Labrador twice with those floats. If you just want straight floats, find EDO 1320s. Lots around. Try Ed Peck up in Nova Scotia. I can give you the name of the DAR if you send me a PM.

    Jim
    Jim, hope they are working well for you. It was a fun project to do!

    David


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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