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Thread: Landing BLM land Wyoming

  1. #1

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    Landing BLM land Wyoming

    Does anybody have experience landing BLM land off strip. Wyoming. Legalities. These are all landlocked BLM areas surrounded by private land. I'd like to access it. Land and camp.

    I called them. I'm looking fir someone that may be doing this. Fortification creek area

    help

  2. #2

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    I haven't yet but I did (quite a while ago) go in and ask at the local (Casper) BLM. They actually didn't know so they said to come back after they consulted with the mother ship (Washington)). I did go back a week later and they said it was allowed with some restrictions. These were no landing in game wintering grounds and to not land where it was wet and the tires would cause damage. He was not a pilot so I had to explain to him that landing in wet areas was detrimental to a long life of plane and/or pilot and that no one in their right mind would do so. Basically it was a green light with a good dose of common sense. I left with us both seeing eye to eye and on good terms. This was an older gentleman and it was long enough ago it is doubtful that he is still there or even retired. Sometimes when you talk to government employees you'll get as many answers as there are employees.

    Now as to landing on land locked by private land; just expect possible confrontation. More than once I have only avoided a problem (driving) by being calm and offering to stay put while the confrontee (if that is a word) contacted the sheriff or BLM; as well as being conspicuously armed. I was in the right and knew it and so did they so nothing came of it except a lot of shouting on their side. I do not recommend confrontation in any form but ranchers are very protective of "their" leased BLM land and in some places it is getting worse. I hear that some folks are having issues in the Crazys in MT (making them even more land locked). Only you can balance the value of risk/reward.


    You say you called; called who, the land owner that is surrounding or the BLM? What did they say?
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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I always heard it was easier to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission. Sorry, I couldn't resist.

    We have are legal to land in the Brazos River as determined by local law enforcement when reviewing the law. The local hunters don't like it very well. I was asked not to fly the river between Sept and December the other day. The threat of tee posts and snares traping some animal I had never heard of was mentioned several times. I could have gotten mad and said game on but I asked where he and his buddies hunted and told him I would avoid their property during deer season. After talking to the game warden I could tell they had given him an ear full. He told me to continue to do what I have been doing but I want to keep the peace as long as it is somewhat reasonable.
    Steve Pierce

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    BLM in Casper and another guy that’s in charge at BLM. Checked with RAF too, not much help. BLM will get back to me get back with me beginning of the year. Seems confrontation with ranchers and hunters may be a bigger issue.

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    And make sure you have a trusted wingman flying high cover!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    I always heard it was easier to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission. Sorry, I couldn't resist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    And make sure you have a trusted wingman flying high cover!!

    I have a Barrett .50 you can tie on the struts

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    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
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    I have personaly talked with blm in mt. And beings its federal i would assume the law is same on blm everywhere. You treat it as a motorised vehical. If there is an established 2 track or road on blm you are legal to land. Ive checked into that for landing, camping, and hunting the next day (in mt its not legal to fly and hunt same day).
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers

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    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
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    The picure that comes up with my posts was taken on blm.
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers
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    Did just that for the great eclipse. Talked with Casper BLM. They said we could land anywhere as long as there was no "resource damage". Found a nice land locked, flat mesa. Landed (two track road, by the way) and got a royal ass chewing by the lessee Rancher. He settled down once he found out that we knew that we has done our homework. Helped that we had also called the Sheriff's office and he knew the Deputy that we had talked with.
    His biggest bitch was that we had not called him and asked for permission. We had not even thought of that. He settled down pretty quick and even offered to run into town and get a keg of beer if we wanted.
    Several of the guys took family members for airplane rides around the ranch the next morning. It all worked out great. The gals are all friends on Facebook now.
    The big takeaway: Find out who is the Lessee and call ahead.
    Tom
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    tedwaltman1's Avatar
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    How does one find out the lessee without making a science project out of it? If someone is leasing the land to run cattle, aren't they still under the auspices of the BLM--which is a public entity?

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    All the rancher owns is grazing rights as I understand it. He has a reasonable right to protect hs cattle although. I hunted on BLM land in Az all the time.

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    Getting an ass chewing by a rancher leasee has never been a problem for me, and has never even crossed my mind. I wouldn't think it'd be much different in Wyoming or Montana, except for the "ruined' parts (built up/bought up by newbies). You do realize that his grazing lease is not a lock on the land, just permission to run cattle on there? There are lot's of dirt bike trails I ride my e mountain bike on as an example, that have cattle grazing, am I supposed to ask the rancher's permission?! At least that's my understanding and how I deal with it. I sure don't go out of my way to land near cattle, but many times have landed an area that had cattle in the general vicinity, scrapping dried cow crap of the bottom of the wing is just part of off airport flying in Idaho. Over the years I've had nothing but good interactions with range riders and cattleman when out screwing around and landing wherever, (the very rare times when our paths actually cross) our shared attitude seems to be : "ain't it great to be out enjoying (and making a living) on OUR land." I also know enough of them in my area to do some name dropping, but's that's never even been close to being required.


    The day I took this picture at 7800', I was on my bike, after over flying the same area one day and noticing trails that looked like they'd be fun to ride. When I came back to ride them (on a bad day for flying, too windy) I realized I could also land this ridge, and did so later. No cattle were harmed or even annoyed, amused maybe.

    I met this cowboy at Copper Basin this summer, the day of a 900 bike race through the area (news to me, not my thing at all) being grazed by 5000 head of cattle. The cattle and bike people got together on it and it again went smoothly. I overflew it later and got the big picture....landing once at a cowboy camp (I landed the airstrip proper earlier) to BS with them a bit, and got invited to breakfast. Great people, as a kid raised near Detroit, I still can't quite believe I know REAL cowboys.
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    Garmin has a GPS that takes a "WY chip" that details ownership of all the land. That would be a good place to start as far as permission, if you choose to ask it (don't expect a yes). Even more so, that GPS can, in itself, defuse a situation. Virtually every confrontation I have had, even mild ones, the confrontee was lying out his ass as to the property I was on. The GPS comes out and the BS stops...usually.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by WYflyer View Post
    Garmin has a GPS that takes a "WY chip" that details ownership of all the land. That would be a good place to start as far as permission, if you choose to ask it (don't expect a yes). Even more so, that GPS can, in itself, defuse a situation. Virtually every confrontation I have had, even mild ones, the confrontee was lying out his ass as to the property I was on. The GPS comes out and the BS stops...usually.

    Good advice. I’ve had “discussions” with lessees on government allotments that ended abruptly when I pointed out our location on a map of government land. More ranchers are just fine with it, as long as you’re not spooking their cattle, but there are a few out there who would like you to believe they own everything west of Arkansas.

    One other thing: Don’t assume that government agency rules are applied identically everywhere. BLM tends to be sorta consistent, but, for example, if the land is under Monument status, off road and Aircraft landings MAY be prohibited.

    MTV

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    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
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    Doesnt matter who leasee is. They dont own it. As long as your not hurting their livestock. Ive been there also. If your on blm and they make problems, its harrasment. Report them to blm and if they persist on runnining you off, tell them to call the sherrif.
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers

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    jr.hammack's Avatar
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    would suggest you be positive you know exactly what ground you are on as most western lands are checker boarded with private,blm,forest,and state. in the grounds are grazing rights,water rights(most are private),mineral rights(mining,oil,gas,and surface rights!!it ain't all that simple concerning western land rights,as a lot considered federal land grab as just that!!

    jr.
    can almost see real alaska from here

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    And they know a real crane operator


    Quote Originally Posted by courierguy View Post
    Getting an ass chewing by a rancher leasee has never been a problem for me, and has never even crossed my mind. I wouldn't think it'd be much different in Wyoming or Montana, except for the "ruined' parts (built up/bought up by newbies). You do realize that his grazing lease is not a lock on the land, just permission to run cattle on there? There are lot's of dirt bike trails I ride my e mountain bike on as an example, that have cattle grazing, am I supposed to ask the rancher's permission?! At least that's my understanding and how I deal with it. I sure don't go out of my way to land near cattle, but many times have landed an area that had cattle in the general vicinity, scrapping dried cow crap of the bottom of the wing is just part of off airport flying in Idaho. Over the years I've had nothing but good interactions with range riders and cattleman when out screwing around and landing wherever, (the very rare times when our paths actually cross) our shared attitude seems to be : "ain't it great to be out enjoying (and making a living) on OUR land." I also know enough of them in my area to do some name dropping, but's that's never even been close to being required.


    The day I took this picture at 7800', I was on my bike, after over flying the same area one day and noticing trails that looked like they'd be fun to ride. When I came back to ride them (on a bad day for flying, too windy) I realized I could also land this ridge, and did so later. No cattle were harmed or even annoyed, amused maybe.

    I met this cowboy at Copper Basin this summer, the day of a 900 bike race through the area (news to me, not my thing at all) being grazed by 5000 head of cattle. The cattle and bike people got together on it and it again went smoothly. I overflew it later and got the big picture....landing once at a cowboy camp (I landed the airstrip proper earlier) to BS with them a bit, and got invited to breakfast. Great people, as a kid raised near Detroit, I still can't quite believe I know REAL cowboys.

  18. #18

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    I have researched this situation and landed on wyoming BLM land. I went to the BLM headquarters in Cheyenne and asked them. They didnít even know where to start. They also mentioned that I need to go to the local office (in Casper) and ask them if there were any active leases on the land. When I asked why, they told me that I wouldnít be able to access the PUBLIC land if a rancher was leasing it. That being said, I read over and over the Wyoming BLM land management policy to make sure I understood the plan that they have implemented for use. The majority of the blm land in Wyoming falls under a use category that allows motorized vehicles on any existing 2 track road. Once I interpreted that, I decided I had tried hard enough and went on my way. Landed on some BLM land I may hunt some year and spent the night. I do believe that the interaction with the adjacent landowner will be the most difficult part, especially since most of them treat the land as their own. When the land managers donít even know their own rules and you have spent the time to understand what they allow, I would suggest that you enjoy it.


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  19. #19

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    A fellow pilot just turned me on to an app. called "on x hunt"
    provides real time info of exactly where you are and designation of land - BLM, private etc, includes landowner info, hunt zones etc.
    Good way to de escalate an argument over property lines
    7 day free trial to check it out

    heres a screen shot of "Dead Cow" lakebed in NV.
    BLM-yellow. Red outline-private with owner name.
    Green-hunt zone and boundaries
    if I were on the lakebed my location would be indicated by a blinking blue dot.

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  20. #20

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    Here's a creative way to "own" BLM land.

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  21. #21
    SteveE's Avatar
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    Oliver, that On X map works great. I trace boundaries where we have permission to hunt and you can see where you are real time. We travel a lot in the helicopter and it keeps up real well. Also has the off line mode and saves the map where u donít have cell service.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  22. #22
    sjohnson's Avatar
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    The Garmin Earthmate app also shows land designation. It's free with the InReach tracker.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Democracy dies in conformity

  23. #23
    SteveE's Avatar
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    The on x lists the property owners name on the map. Touch it and it gives detail, address and acreage. Whether or not itís state, Indian or blm land.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

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    Talked to BLM and think I have permission. Cool and thanks

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    Can you give us a bit of the verbiage used by BLM. Did they have restrictions or other caveats, especially how to handle unfriendly lessees?

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    Will post it when I have it. For now it’s just a verbal

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    jr.hammack's Avatar
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    can only wonder who's going to except the responsibility for damage after EL TORO EATS THE COVERING OFF YA'R cub!!!!

    jr.
    can almost see real alaska from here
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  28. #28
    jr.hammack's Avatar
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    also the horses and cattle seem to think there portable rubbing equipment placed there for their use!!!

    jr.
    can almost see real alaska from here
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  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by jr.hammack View Post
    also the horses and cattle seem to think there portable rubbing equipment placed there for their use!!!

    jr.
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    This is what happens when a charolais momma cow decides to lick and then bite your tailpipe. F’d up the lower cowl also. Good thing I got back before she rubbed my tailfeathers off
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  30. #30
    gbflyer's Avatar
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    Had a herd of broom tails eat the hood off my pickup once. They'd already eaten all the fence posts.

    I loath them.
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  31. #31

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    As a landower,lessor and pilot, I would like to offer my 2 cents. Maybe first try to get along. You have access to everything you need to find out the surrounding landowers. Maybe contact them before you want to go there. Let them know your intentions. Many times that will go along way toward a good relationship with the surrounding landowers. Not always but it sure wouldn't hurt either. With the right landower they may even let you hunt on private land. Keep in mind towards the end of hunting season tempers could be getting short after dealing with tresspassing on private property and rude hunters for a month and a half. Not that all hunters are like that but by the end of hunting season all we want is for it to end. If I see an airplane land or just setting anywhere on the ranch I'm going to go check it out private or leased land. It would be unusual to see. Am I harassing you? No what if you had mechanical or physical problems. Would you not want some help?
    Act belligerent he's probably not going to care if his cows or horses wreck your airplane. Personally I would worry more about other hunters than landowers. That is what has stopped me from doing what you want to do.
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    jr.hammack's Avatar
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    blm indictment against bundy's dismissed with predudice,justice may still be alive!!

    jr.
    can almost see real alaska from here
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  33. #33
    Cub Special Ed's Avatar
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    If you land on blm while their livestock is in there, your at your own risk. Granted some stock and wool growers over extend their grazing intervals and their au's. Keep this in mind when confronted by a leaseholder.
    Ive been confronted by one who said i was on his property and not blm. I had a gps with a current card in hand. Told him "give me proof im on your land because im giving proof i was on blm". He couldnt. I got blm involved. I was right. The only reason i got on the fight was because the stock grower approached me on the fight.
    Im a livestock owner and a pilot. If a leaseholders' first words are "you lost?" Hes only there to run you off. What does he have in mind when approaching you? Recreational aviation or the ranch commodity? Lets be honest. Whats the odds an aicraft (be it a cub or any typical aircraft of the bush nature) landing on an established 2track, and on a land locked piece of blm? And you think the aircraft has a problem? Those of us that are doing this are not the problem. We know exactly where we are, the laws, and respect land and livestock, or we wouldnt attempt it. Who is going to risk their oodles of $$$ plane to land on a landlocked piece of blm if they wern't for absolute certain it is legal? Just my $.02.
    "There are 3 kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." Will Rogers
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  34. #34
    jr.hammack's Avatar
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    from a low of 20% (hawaii) to84.9%(nevada) most western states federal land are extreamly out of proportion with eastern states,which most having less than 10%! search for a map showing federal holdings nation wide,you might begin to understand why western folks have a problem with federal intervention !! jr.
    can almost see real alaska from here
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    I have landed on BLM and Forest Service land for years and never a problem. I had one gentleman that had some of the property leased for grazing fuss a little but when the wife invited him to share our lunch he became right friendly. Hungry maybe? Had one fellow ask "since you got her in here just how the hell are you gonna fly her out"? mostly good folks out there.
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  36. #36
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Long ago, landed the -12 in a pasture between some cow-critters in Colorado, due to thunderstorm buildups all around. It wasn't long before the pickups appeared at high speed. I was thinking, uh-oh, here comes the grief. But not. We were invited to steak dinner and a bed. We helped with evening chores, enjoyed a GREAT meal, and left with some new friends. What a delightful precautionary landing!!
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO
    My SPOT: tinyurl.com/N4328M (case sensitive)
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  37. #37

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    Had a similar experience this past summer, without wx though, just out having fun.
    flew over a grassy ridge top on a large private cattle ranch. Looked down to see a guy on an atv waving frantically.
    What better excuse to land is that?
    Parked the plane, the guy ran up with a huge grin and shook my hand, turned out to be the ranch owner.
    Told him I thought he was in trouble, how can one argue with a good sameritan act that?
    Weve become good friends and 4400 acres of new playground.
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