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Thread: My SQ2 Mods

  1. #1
    Barnstormer's Avatar
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    My SQ2 Mods

    Decided I'd post mods I make in here going forward. I've already posted about the TK1 suspension and T3 suspension in different posts.

    So this first post here will be about getting cylinder head temps down. Being the prototype SQ2 mine has a cowling that is unique to my plane, but this might still help others. From the beginning my problem has been with No. 3 cylinder. When on a sustained climb it would head north of 400 quickly so I'd have to slow to about a 200 or 250 fpm climb. Around here the only sustained climbs I do are to cross the Turnagain Arm (3,500 feet) and to cross the Cook Inlet at the Forelands (5,500-6,500 feet) so it wasn’t a huge problem-just annoying.

    First thing I did was inspect all the cylinder baffling to make sure it was in place. Then I sealed up 99% of leaks between the baffling and the cowl (not much help really).

    Increased the carb jet size. That helped delay the temperature rise but didn't do much else.

    About all that was left was to install cowl louvers. I really like the monster ones on the new XCub but alas they wouldn't work on my cowling and are crazy expensive.

    After much searching I located some that would work and installed them. Bingo! That dropped No 3 in line with the others and now I can do a sustained 750fpm climb with CHT holding at 395. What is really interesting though is what must be going on inside the cowling regarding airflow. When I first start the engine and let it warm up No 3 climbs far faster then the others, in the same manner/pace it did when climbing before putting the louvers on. Yet as soon as I'm flying No 3 falls right in line with the others.

    I got the louvers from Flyin’ Miata.

    IMG_9764.jpg
    Phil Whittemore
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    Aktahoe's Avatar
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    I retarded my timing 2 degrees and now all my temps are under 390. My number 3 as well has always run hotter than the rest. It’s still the one I watch on hard climbs but after adjusting my timing it’s helped dramatically

    akt
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    CamTom12's Avatar
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    Did you put them on both sides or just the one? Looks good, will be barely noticeable once you paint them

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    Timing. Thanks for that post. I forgot I pulled the manifold hoses off the PMags long ago because the hyper advanced timing at cruise caused No 3 to run too hot. I'll have to hook them back up and see if that problem is solved as well, get me a little better gph if it is.

    Both sides. And built some replacement flat plates in case I need the extra heat in the winter.
    Phil Whittemore
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    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    That's them.
    Phil Whittemore

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    I think the louvers look good on the plane. Any reason the SQ don't have open cowl cheeks like on a cub?
    DENNY
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    Quote Originally Posted by DENNY View Post
    I think the louvers look good on the plane. Any reason the SQ don't have open cowl cheeks like on a cub?
    DENNY
    I certainly don't know the answer to that, but have wondered the same thing. Of course I don't know if it would make a difference or not. I'll try and remember to ask next time I see Wayne Mackey.
    Phil Whittemore

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    Phil,
    I don’t post much on the other thread but on the topic of Helios.....SOAR Aviation in Bolivar, MO. Talked to them at OSH. They offer training/checkout in a Helio. Seemed pretty reasonable per hour. Explained all the models and showed me examples parked near by. They seemed to have a thumb on most of the flying Helios. They are pigs to push on the ground Good luck with the hunt
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    Mike schooled me on this today. The back side of #3 won't flow air through the cooling fins. The baffle needs a spacer to allow air to flow down and reach the aft lower quadrant of the cylinder. Here's a pic of the front of #2, which is the back side on #3. The second pic is the front of #1, or the back of #4. It explains why #3 gets hot on some planes. Does your aft baffle allow some air space on the back side of #3?


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    Last edited by stewartb; 11-04-2017 at 07:16 PM.
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    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Mike schooled me on this today. The back side of #3 won't flow air through the cooling fins. The baffle needs a spacer to allow air to flow down and reach the aft lower quadrant of the cylinder. Here's a pic of the front of #2, which is the back side on #3. The second pic is the front of #1, or the back of #4. It explains why #3 gets hot on some planes. Does your aft baffle allow some air space on the back side of #3?


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app
    not that I came up with this,

    but I always wondered why some Lycoming style baffle installations had a spacer on right rear cylinder, but not on left rear....

    by studding cylinders, noticed one side pf cylinder head is not the same as opposite side...

    when it's installed as a left rear cylinder, the cylinder has FINS all around to let air FLOW from TOP to & through Bottom fins

    right does not, it's blocked by head/no fins at center...

    so that = NO flow for top rear to/through bottom rear fins on #3....

    that spacer on cylinder #3 is important...

  12. #12
    Barnstormer's Avatar
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    Hmmm, very cool info. I'll take a look in the morning. Thanks Stewart and Mike!

    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Mike schooled me on this today. The back side of #3 won't flow air through the cooling fins. The baffle needs a spacer to allow air to flow down and reach the aft lower quadrant of the cylinder. Here's a pic of the front of #2, which is the back side on #3. The second pic is the front of #1, or the back of #4. It explains why #3 gets hot on some planes. Does your aft baffle allow some air space on the back side of #3?


    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app
    Phil Whittemore

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    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    How much space seems to work best, Mike? My #3 is hottest also.
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO
    My SPOT: tinyurl.com/N4328M (case sensitive)

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    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    No idea. Just food for thought.

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    I like the louver idea. Louvers have served well on my 180. I wonder if anyones's crafted a cowl flap on an SQ cowling?

    Re: the baffle. Here's what mine looks like. You can see the baffle is boxed to move it away from the back of #3. The top view shows about 3/8" of space behind the cylinder.


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    I think the Grumman Tiger baffles built a little “box” around that part of the fins. I’ll try to google a pic. I’ve got a couple of washers under that bolt on my O-320 as well, dropped my #3 in line with the others in cruise. In climb my #2 is the highest and probably for the same reason.

    EDIT: I couldn't find the particular picture I was looking for. Google for "baffle mod" as well.

    Last edited by CamTom12; 11-05-2017 at 09:55 AM.
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  17. #17
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    Looks like I do have a standoff baffle on No 3 cylinder.

    IMG_9768.jpg
    Phil Whittemore
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  18. #18
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    The SQ-2 is now wearing a pair of Carbon Concepts Skis w/ Airframes Alaska Grizzly Claw Ski Drag.







    The pedestal is taller then most other skis. The sides of the skis are turned up helping the ski not catch an edge while the plane is turning.







    The bulk of the rigging was purchased from Stoddards. The brake hoses and fittings from Alaska Rubber.
    http://www.stoddardairparts.com
    http://alaskarubbergroup.com







    The blue brake line fitting on the Grizzly Claw comes installed loose from Airframes so be sure and either replace it with a different one you prefer or tighten it. A 5/32" Allen wrench is required to remove the cylinder so the fitting can be tightened.


    The next weather day I do my first ever flight on skis!


    Last edited by Barnstormer; 11-19-2017 at 12:40 AM. Reason: spelling
    Phil Whittemore
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  19. #19
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    nice.

    but, those ski brakes are still an unholy marriage of levers & hydraulics and 80% more size weight than they need to be... like an unreduced fraction... I've exchanged emails with them, but wasn't able to get through to them....

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    nice.

    but, those ski brakes are still an unholy marriage of levers & hydraulics and 80% more size weight than they need to be... like an unreduced fraction... I've exchanged emails with them, but wasn't able to get through to them....
    Did you talk to Abe? He was very receptive to ideas and changes when I was testing the T-3.


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    Phil Whittemore

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    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barnstormer View Post
    Did you talk to Abe? He was very receptive to ideas and changes when I was testing the T-3.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    no, one of the engineers the owner forwarded to me...

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    Gabe. Greg Niesen's son. Great kid. Respectfully submitted.
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  23. #23
    Barnstormer's Avatar
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    PM'd you with Abe's contact info.

    I've met and talked with Gabe but don't have a working relationship with him. Maybe between the two...
    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    no, one of the engineers the owner forwarded to me...
    Phil Whittemore

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    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barnstormer View Post
    PM'd you with Abe's contact info.

    I've met and talked with Gabe but don't have a working relationship with him. Maybe between the two...
    think Abe is the new Engineer ...

  25. #25
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    You’ll really like those skis. Once you get a good feel for them try pushing some forward stick into it to make some really tight turns. Either direction.

    Hopefully we will get some more valley snow soon and I’ll have mine back on. Skis are fun.

    Mike, that “Unreduced fraction” line put a smile on my face.
    "Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything." Wyatt Earp
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    What parts did Airglas have that you needed?

    The crust cutter through the spring is a no-no. Guys still do it but they usually sleeve the cable so it doesn't saw on the spring.

    I wouldn't trust those zip ties holding your brake lines. Cold temperatures and crusty snow will probably break them.

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    Bungees instead of springs was what I was primarily looking for that I couldn't get elsewhere.

    I was told the cable through the spring is the front limit cable. He put it through the spring so if the spring has a catastrophic failure it won't slap into the propellor. What can it be sleeved with?

    Yea I figured the zip ties won't like the cold. Haven't come up with another solution yet. Kind of a temporary solution anyway as once my mechanic gets back from vacation we are going to change out the fittings on the ski drag from No 4 to No 3 and use a No 3 hose to match the other brake hoses. Any ideas would be appreciated.

    Also, any thoughts on what's best to put on the top of the skis where I'm likely to step from time to time? Being an ex-Stearman driver my mind went straight to wing-walk paint.

    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    What parts did Airglas have that you needed?

    The crust cutter through the spring is a no-no. Guys still do it but they usually sleeve the cable so it doesn't saw on the spring.

    I wouldn't trust those zip ties holding your brake lines. Cold temperatures and crusty snow will probably break them.
    Phil Whittemore

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    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barnstormer View Post
    Bungees instead of springs was what I was primarily looking for that I couldn't get elsewhere.

    I was told the cable through the spring is the front limit cable. He put it through the spring so if the spring has a catastrophic failure it won't slap into the propellor. What can it be sleeved with?

    Yea I figured the zip ties won't like the cold. Haven't come up with another solution yet. Kind of a temporary solution anyway as once my mechanic gets back from vacation we are going to change out the fittings on the ski drag from No 4 to No 3 and use a No 3 hose to match the other brake hoses. Any ideas would be appreciated.

    Also, any thoughts on what's best to put on the top of the skis where I'm likely to step from time to time? Being an ex-Stearman driver my mind went straight to wing-walk paint.
    reeve has bungies

    you put vinyl hose over cable if in spring

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    I’ve had a roll of no-skid tape for long enough that I can’t recall where I got it. Mine is aluminum tape with about an 80 grit surface. It works great on skis.
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    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    I think the zip ties will hold. I use them on the tire chains of my bobcat. They take a real beating. Slit any plastic tube and slide it on from bottom use that silicone rescue tape from state fair at top and every 6 inch or so to close tube and lock at bottom and top with tape. That will also do brake line if you want. I use fuel hose as standoff with zip tie.
    DENNY
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    I don't like both cables going to one tab on the ski. If you get into rough stuff and the check cable is slapped to its limit it may weaken the tab's attachment to the ski.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by DENNY View Post
    I think the zip ties will hold. I use them on the tire chains of my bobcat. They take a real beating. Slit any plastic tube and slide it on from bottom use that silicone rescue tape from state fair at top and every 6 inch or so to close tube and lock at bottom and top with tape. That will also do brake line if you want. I use fuel hose as standoff with zip tie.
    DENNY
    We know but it would help to show with a pic the tie and fuel hose standoff?

    Gary

  34. #34
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randyk View Post
    I don't like both cables going to one tab on the ski. If you get into rough stuff and the check cable is slapped to its limit it may weaken the tab's attachment to the ski.
    Yes on this...should be two separate tabs and two seperate staged eyes. There is a reason for redundancy there. From AC 43 13.2 A: “It is strongly recommended that tension cords and safety cables be attached to entirely separate fittings at their fuselage ends. Although the attachment fitting detail shown in Figure 5-2 may be adequate for some installations where alternate attachment locations are unavailable, we recommend that each cord and cable be attached to its own fitting (such as the right-hand fitting in Figure 5-3) and attached at separate points on the fuselage when possible. Provide separate means of attaching cables and shock cords at the forward and aft ends of the skis.“

    Good advice there.

    And, too late now, but I prefer the limit cables attatched to lower engine mount, not top of gear. Looks like your limit cables are short enough in any case, though.

    Nice looking Skis! The pedestals look like Atlee’s old setup, which was outstanding.

    MTV
    Last edited by mvivion; 11-20-2017 at 09:03 AM.
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  35. #35
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    I used AC 43.13 for data to increase size on cable, thimble, and swedges. Used to (2) separate attachments on airframe and skis. After reading Transport Canada and NTSB analysis on ski plane accidents, summed it up that rigging is often compromised from either human rigging error, abuse, or lack of inspection.
    You_Doodle+_2017-11-20T16_37_15Z.jpg
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  36. #36
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    Thanks a bunch for your comments guys. I like the idea of wing walk paint for non-slip but I'm thinking I can't paint it in the cold so will most likely go with one of the tapes you guys suggested. And as soon as my mechanic gets back we will add another attach point for the front limit cable, and I'll get some tubing over that cable.

    I realize I'm in test pilot mode today since (1) I've never flown on skis, and (2) this is a new install. So my plan is to spend some time taxiing around on my runway and doing a bunch of turns (turn left turn left). Then taking off keeping her in ground effect down the runway and landing, doing that a couple of times. If all feels well then I'll head over to a close by big lake and start practicing.

    I did contact Don Lee and will be taking lessons from him in late February or early March. He even offered to do it in the SQ-2 knowing there are no controls in the back seat- a brave man indeed. Looking forward to that.

    On the subject of zip ties I've had a hard time locating the ones I really like which have a metal "catch" instead of a plastic one. Seems like all the ones I find in auto parts stores and places like Home Depot are all plastic. A zillion years ago when my uncle worked for the phone company I'd get ones from him, and they were of outstanding quality. Anyone know where really good zip ties can be purchased?
    Phil Whittemore

  37. #37
    8GCBC's Avatar
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    BTW love your bird! And this thread!

    More of my ski thinking...
    I noticed the exhaust gasses may interfere with the starboard return spring. Similar issue on the Scout. C3000A STC calls out using a common Aeroquip hydraulic hose fire shield over the bungee. Exhaust gases are very corrosive and dirty, not good for ringing. I have also seen exhaust extensions, custom fabricated, which bend the exhaust gasses downward away from ringing (used on seaplanes too)
    You_Doodle+_2017-11-20T17_04_53Z.jpg

    You_Doodle+_2017-11-20T17_20_27Z.jpg
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    IA/A&P, ATP, SES, CFII, MEI, Rotor PPL (2500 TT)
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  38. #38

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    One brand of high quality cable ties is Thomas&Betts. Amazon has them, they have the stainless steel locking tabs.
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  39. #39
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barnstormer View Post
    On the subject of zip ties I've had a hard time locating the ones I really like which have a metal "catch" instead of a plastic one. Seems like all the ones I find in auto parts stores and places like Home Depot are all plastic. A zillion years ago when my uncle worked for the phone company I'd get ones from him, and they were of outstanding quality. Anyone know where really good zip ties can be purchased?
    I buy mine in black with a metal tab at Brown's Electric Supply in Fairbanks next to me, or Alaska Industrial Hardware. Both have branches on the Kenai.

    The standoff mentioned above consists of a short piece of fuel hose with a tie threaded both ways through the center...one wrap goes around the object be held and the other loops around a base spot. The hose goes in between.

    Gary
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  40. #40
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Phil,

    The zip ties with a metal tab are sold at electrical supply places. Don’t sweat the first flight, you aren’t the first to tackle ski flying on your own. Just take your time, think things through, and don’t be afraid to shut down get out and push the tail around.

    Have fun!

    MTV
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