Taxes are coming for Alaskans. We've lived on the oil companies for so long our entitlements are engrained in us and resistance to taxes and fees is a reflex. In a couple of years this $150 registration fee will seem trivial. If we can invigorate our economy we all can absorb taxes and fees pretty easily. The key is to stimulate growth in the economy but Alaskans are against everything. No mines, no dams, no logging, no gas pipeline. No private development interest at Birchwood. 8) I hope whoever makes those little anti mining bumper stickers is making bank because that's the only new industry Alaska has seen in several years. Maybe they can pay a crapload of taxes so the rest of us won't have to?
New user fee state of Alaska
- Thread starter eskflyer
- Start date
CamTom12
Registered User
Huntsville, AL
:lol: :lol: :lol:
aktango58
FRIEND
18AA
I was looking up the "aviation advisory board" and who exactly is on it. Pretty much what you would expect: 135 guys, 121 guys, international airport people, big city office folk and a token private guy.
My resistance is not as much to be paying for what we use, but what I suspect is that this is going to further allow the big airports to continue building, but the rural airports will not get the benefit. Also, we small guys parking on private strips will be paying for what we don't use.
I see this as an encompassing tax to maintain places that are essentially commercial operators only. Many airports out west see almost no private planes land on them, but are needed for the commercial operators to bring people in and out.
At least with automobiles if you don't take them on roads you don't need to register them.
I think I would be very receptive to an increase in fuel tax, as that is more a pay for what you use; also less paperwork for me!
My resistance is not as much to be paying for what we use, but what I suspect is that this is going to further allow the big airports to continue building, but the rural airports will not get the benefit. Also, we small guys parking on private strips will be paying for what we don't use.
I see this as an encompassing tax to maintain places that are essentially commercial operators only. Many airports out west see almost no private planes land on them, but are needed for the commercial operators to bring people in and out.
At least with automobiles if you don't take them on roads you don't need to register them.
I think I would be very receptive to an increase in fuel tax, as that is more a pay for what you use; also less paperwork for me!
BC12D-4-85
SPONSOR
Fairbanks, AK.
Bargaining chip...vehicle registrations in Alaska are for a two year period. If the requested fees ($150/$250) are enacted then it should cover two years at the suggested rate before renewal, and not be an annual expense at that rate. Then there's enforcement...who's going to be tasked as the Aircraft Registration Police?
Gary
Edit: Enforcement police identified:
17 AAC 41.040. Display of registration.
(a) An aircraft’s current certificate of registration shall be carried in the aircraft at all times.
(b) An aircraft’s certificate of registration shall be made available for examination upon reasonable request by any authorized official or employee of the department, or person charged with the duty of enforcing laws of this state.
Gary
Edit: Enforcement police identified:
17 AAC 41.040. Display of registration.
(a) An aircraft’s current certificate of registration shall be carried in the aircraft at all times.
(b) An aircraft’s certificate of registration shall be made available for examination upon reasonable request by any authorized official or employee of the department, or person charged with the duty of enforcing laws of this state.
Last edited:
BC12D-4-85
SPONSOR
Fairbanks, AK.
The more I peel this registration and fee onion the weirder it gets. Here's a draft of a proposal from 9/8/16 regarding aircraft registration in Alaska and the justification. The suggested fee ($5) and estimated administrative expenses are noted in the text: http://www.alaskaaircarriers.org/up...aircraft_registration_white_paper_-_draft.pdf
Wonder what's next?
Gary
Wonder what's next?
Gary
mike mcs repair
Registered User
chugiak AK
If you read the above article that mile posted. It says in it this is walker himself proposes this as a user fee. But it is not fairly being implemented. Every aircraft that uses Alaska airports should be taxed not just the ones that live up here. And also see that his royal highness wants to bring avgas taxes to almost a buck now. Please contact your local representative , and ask for this to be voted down.
scout88305
SPONSOR
Northern Minnesota
Here is MN for you. After awhile one loses the the energy to fight as mentioned earlier in the thread. I had no idea AK didn't have a registration fee. Is the oil money getting tighter or does that have nothing to do with it? Everywhere one turns nowadays are reasons the flying GA ownership population grows smaller. If you were running a caravan the reg fee in MN would be $2000.
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/aero/aircraftregistration/generalinformation.html
http://www.dot.state.mn.us/aero/aircraftregistration/generalinformation.html
CamTom12
Registered User
Huntsville, AL
Like Canada? I think if there's a Use Fee, all aviation that uses the services should share it. If there's a tax, I think that's a state/borough thing.
I got a bill for something around $20 from Canada last time I flew through there. Pretty reasonable. I've heard they're accrued quarterly. Doesn't seem terrible.
B
Barnstormer
I’ve been around long enough to have personally experienced that all government agencies; local, state and federal have some level of graft, collusion and corruption within. I’m also in the highest income tax bracket which means I’m allowed the least amount of tax deductions and on the healthcare side I’m now paying four times what I was before Obama care, have far worse coverage, and was told at two recent doctor visits that I have the highest copay either office has ever seen.
So I look at any increase in fees as a tax, because that is what it is. Using the word “fee” is nothing more then a way to circumvent the legislative process needed for creating/modifying a tax. Because of my personal experience I look at any proposed new tax or tax increase as something to be fought vigorously until such time it can be proved to me to be necessary and that it will be used for a very clearly defined need that is directly related to the tax, and that the monies will be well and judiciously spent.
In full disclosure I fly off of my own private airport. I have my own fuel. I pay property tax.
Having said this:
1. I am opposed to any tax levied on aircraft, airports, or pilots that goes into the general fund.
2. I am opposed to any broad tax, such as a new/increase in fuel sales tax, that benefits only a subset of the aviation industry, only public airports would be one example.
3. I support a user based tax at public airports if the need can be well documented as outlined above and the tax supports only that airport. I believe the users based at the airport; pilots, landlords and businesses, have the right to help determine how the tax is collected, and oversee how it is spent.
I also own a hangar, one of many at a private airport in the lower 48. In order for us to maintain our airport we have two classes of membership, A and B.
Class A members are property owners like myself. We each have one vote, pay an annual tax to our owner’s association, and levy an additional tax on ourselves for the balance of major expenses such as runway/taxiway repair or expansion as needed (and voted on).
Class B members are hangar renters. They have no vote, and pay a small annual tax to our owner’s association. We sell fuel at this airport, are the third lowest price in that part of the state, and the profit from the fuel sales goes into the airport association fund.
Note: a few years ago this lower 48 airport had sections owned by multiple public and private entities and individuals, including us hangar owners. As an association we decided it was in our best interest if we owned all the land at the airport (not individual hangar lots). It took us about four years but we managed to take out a loan and purchase all the separate sections of land. As an association we now own all of the airport and have the loan paid off.
A model similar to this could be used at public airports. The airport stake holders own and run the airport.
So I look at any increase in fees as a tax, because that is what it is. Using the word “fee” is nothing more then a way to circumvent the legislative process needed for creating/modifying a tax. Because of my personal experience I look at any proposed new tax or tax increase as something to be fought vigorously until such time it can be proved to me to be necessary and that it will be used for a very clearly defined need that is directly related to the tax, and that the monies will be well and judiciously spent.
In full disclosure I fly off of my own private airport. I have my own fuel. I pay property tax.
Having said this:
1. I am opposed to any tax levied on aircraft, airports, or pilots that goes into the general fund.
2. I am opposed to any broad tax, such as a new/increase in fuel sales tax, that benefits only a subset of the aviation industry, only public airports would be one example.
3. I support a user based tax at public airports if the need can be well documented as outlined above and the tax supports only that airport. I believe the users based at the airport; pilots, landlords and businesses, have the right to help determine how the tax is collected, and oversee how it is spent.
I also own a hangar, one of many at a private airport in the lower 48. In order for us to maintain our airport we have two classes of membership, A and B.
Class A members are property owners like myself. We each have one vote, pay an annual tax to our owner’s association, and levy an additional tax on ourselves for the balance of major expenses such as runway/taxiway repair or expansion as needed (and voted on).
Class B members are hangar renters. They have no vote, and pay a small annual tax to our owner’s association. We sell fuel at this airport, are the third lowest price in that part of the state, and the profit from the fuel sales goes into the airport association fund.
Note: a few years ago this lower 48 airport had sections owned by multiple public and private entities and individuals, including us hangar owners. As an association we decided it was in our best interest if we owned all the land at the airport (not individual hangar lots). It took us about four years but we managed to take out a loan and purchase all the separate sections of land. As an association we now own all of the airport and have the loan paid off.
A model similar to this could be used at public airports. The airport stake holders own and run the airport.
BC12D-4-85
SPONSOR
Fairbanks, AK.
Note DOT&PF Deputy Commissioner John Binder's recent comments regarding the continuing conversation regarding costs and benefits of potential revenue options: http://dot.alaska.gov/documents/aviation/Plane_Talk_fall2017.pdf
At least it's open to discussion and rigorous review.
Gary
At least it's open to discussion and rigorous review.
Gary
algonquin
MEMBER
Seldovia,Ak
Hi Ed, no there isn't any sales tax in AK. We pay a fee to the local area the plane is based, I think it's where the plane is one 1 Jan or something like that.
The airports in the fly in cities/ villages in AK are not just for the pilots and A/C owners. All the people that live in these areas are totally dependent on the airport for every aspect of there lives. I don't have any idea of life in Sterling but in Seldovia your plan just wouldn't work. You would be asking 15 people and a couple small 135 operators to support the whole village.
The airports in the fly in cities/ villages in AK are not just for the pilots and A/C owners. All the people that live in these areas are totally dependent on the airport for every aspect of there lives. I don't have any idea of life in Sterling but in Seldovia your plan just wouldn't work. You would be asking 15 people and a couple small 135 operators to support the whole village.
aktango58
FRIEND
18AA
Many places out in western alaska it would be worse. I think I saw a total of six or seven private planes parked at all the airports surrounding Bethel... so one for every five or six airports. There is no other way to transport goods and people out there for much of the year- so all of us at other airports will need to support those villages.
But this brings in a question: if you want to capture the users and have them pay, that would be the commercial planes- or the villages themselves.
Pandora's box here. Most of us could do with a 2,000' runway, but we now have 3,000' plus most everywhere, with wide runways so the caravans can turn around without sinking a wheel. Are we supporting needs, or wants then?
Sort of like a bunch of the roads in our state, and the ferry system. A mandate is transportation, the airport system is a major player in that. Seems to me we should be advocating for equal treatment with automobiles.
BC12D-4-85
SPONSOR
Fairbanks, AK.
This urban vs rural costs and funding can get unpleasant...pet projects, education, schools, public safety services, sanitation, and transportation in the form of roads, ferries, or runways. And who should pay and under what formula?
Best to focus on the topic of registering aircraft and attending fees, taxes on aircraft fuel, or landing fees. Otherwise it gets dark and off topic.
Gary
Best to focus on the topic of registering aircraft and attending fees, taxes on aircraft fuel, or landing fees. Otherwise it gets dark and off topic.
Gary
BC12D-4-85
SPONSOR
Fairbanks, AK.
The Federal Government via the FAA runs an Airport Improvement Program (AIP) that helps pay for many airports in Alaska. Here's an overview: https://www.faa.gov/airports/aip/overview/
Obviously there's annual maintenance once constructed and compliance with CFR 14 Part 139 if applicable at that airport: https://www.faa.gov/airports/airport_safety/part139_cert/
The State of Alaska DOT&PF is involved with owning and maintaining about 240 airports: http://dot.alaska.gov/stwdav/index.shtml They need money to operate. I suspect that's the reason for the call for collections that's prompted this fee and tax discussion during times of declining State revenue.
Gary
Obviously there's annual maintenance once constructed and compliance with CFR 14 Part 139 if applicable at that airport: https://www.faa.gov/airports/airport_safety/part139_cert/
The State of Alaska DOT&PF is involved with owning and maintaining about 240 airports: http://dot.alaska.gov/stwdav/index.shtml They need money to operate. I suspect that's the reason for the call for collections that's prompted this fee and tax discussion during times of declining State revenue.
Gary
BC12D-4-85
SPONSOR
Fairbanks, AK.
That may be for an increase in fuel tax (via SB25 and HB60) per this non-State generated but comprehensive news article above: http://mustreadalaska.com/airplane-tax-regulation-walker/
From the news article: "According to DOT, the tax (I assume she's referring to to the registration fee not the fuel tax) is needed because aircraft owners should help pay for the cost of the aviation system. Commercial rates are set higher as they use the system on a daily or weekly basis, where as weekend pilots or experimental plane enthusiasts put little pressure on the system, according to DOT."
It remains to be seen what and how any approved fee for aircraft registration is assimilated or redistributed. It's our job as owner/operators to track that process and offer our comments.
Gary
mike mcs repair
Registered User
chugiak AK
can only go into the general fund... we can't dedicate funds.. unfortunately
jwmusgrove
FRIEND
I have sent out notices to numerous local pilots. Not a one had ever heard of this.
I also sent out comments to my state legislators, the Legislative Information Office, and the links located in the basic article.
Alaska State has spent itself into a huge multi-year, multi-billion dollar hole and the legislators stand around and scratch their heads, now on their fourth special session.
Our airport is maintained by the City. I don't see how this will help us at all..........jw
I also sent out comments to my state legislators, the Legislative Information Office, and the links located in the basic article.
Alaska State has spent itself into a huge multi-year, multi-billion dollar hole and the legislators stand around and scratch their heads, now on their fourth special session.
Our airport is maintained by the City. I don't see how this will help us at all..........jw
BC12D-4-85
SPONSOR
Fairbanks, AK.
Then it becomes a political football to be played with by the Legislature, doesn't it? They may re-allocate general funds to match Federal AIP funds or facilitate annual maintenance at State owned airports. Give the fox a chicken and see how long it lasts in my experience.
Let's see what they say at the their meetings. If they were truly serious about rigorous public comment and debate they would have sent a notice to all aircraft owners listed with the FAA in Alaska. http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/statecounty_inquiry.aspx
Gary
AK_Logan
Registered User
This is A huge issue with any new fee/tax the state is trying to implement. The monies are not be put back to the programs that are providing them. They did this a few years ago with the snow machine tax. They moved the funds to the general fund and trail maintenance programs suffered greatly. Aviation will be no different.
Mark_Moyle
SPONSOR
Platinum
ADOT cut funding for maintenance building heat...as in no heating fuel to keep the equipment used clear snow from the runway, apron and taxi way warm. I topped of the tanks here in May...have sent the invoice along with the quarterly pay statement twice...still no joy....I keep the heat set at 32 degrees. Guess I won't be paying that new tax for the next 15 years...
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BC12D-4-85
SPONSOR
Fairbanks, AK.
Mark_Moyle
SPONSOR
Platinum
Eddie Foy
MEMBER
South Florida
Didn’t know I had a plan. Virtually every other state makes you pay sales tax. I paid 7% in FL. Ouch!
sj
Staff member
Northwest Arkansas
In Missouri we have both a sales tax (new or used), and an yearly property tax on aircraft. Some states allow you to not pay property tax on A/C if it is business related (not MO of course). The annual property tax is based on how many hours you fly and the value of the airplane. It can get very expensive if you fly more than 50 hours and have a newer airplane...
Is there an AC property tax in AK?
sj
Is there an AC property tax in AK?
sj
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