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Thread: New user fee state of Alaska

  1. #1

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    New user fee state of Alaska

    So yes the state is going to provide us with new better yearly registration with a user fee of $ 150 for private. $ 250. Commercial. On top of our local user fee taxes. And faa registration. Please contact your local representative and ask that this not be implemented. Of course all government types and aircraft not in the state more than 180 days will not he subject to this user fee.
    https://aws.state.ak.us/OnlinePublic...aspx?id=187638
    Last edited by eskflyer; 11-03-2017 at 12:16 PM.
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    Barnstormer's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting this. To start with let's call this what it is when contacting our representatives. It's not a proposed user fee, it is a proposed tax.

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    Good morning Phil. Yes tax fee user fee. It's a bad idea. Hey fly on out it's only fog��, have sourdough pancakes n bacon on the grill at treasure chest, Perry's propstrike junction.

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    skukum12's Avatar
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    Tax is absolutely correct. We all need to fight back against our own state. Remember that even the Mat-Su Borough was smart enough to revoke airplane taxes because collections fell far short of costs.
    "Always looking up"

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    Dang, if we aren't careful they might charge us to register cars, too!

    The free ride Alaskans are used to is over. Tough times.
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  6. #6
    skukum12's Avatar
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    First, cut the free ride for the non producers in this state, then come talk to us about what we get.
    "Always looking up"
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    It not a matter of being a free ride, we already register our aircraft with faa, then there is borough registration taxation on top of that . Now dot wants state registration taxation on top of already being registered. We pay a fee in fuel taxes for aircraft already . And or road tax if using mogas.
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  8. #8

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    Yes, i understand. I only have a finite amount of fighting energy in me and my focus is on what's happening to the cost of health insurance. Speaking as one of those "producer" types.

  9. #9
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    It'll be interesting to hear at the meetings what benefits to owner/operators will accrue from this proposed fee. Same for the State DOTPF.

    Gary
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  10. #10
    AKCRUISER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    It'll be interesting to hear at the meetings what benefits to owner/operators will accrue from this proposed fee. Same for the State DOTPF.

    Gary
    Yes, and as mentioned, this is in addition to any local (for me the existing $75 anchorage) aircraft registration fee, which is already a b.s. tax with zero representation. Ask your reps or local government finance people what benefit we get from the existing fee, they can’t articulate an answer - cause there isn’t one.

    This ‘fee’ looks exactly the same & I’d bet there is ZERO representation for it.

    So now a potential local, state and federal registration fee...
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  11. #11
    cubpilot2's Avatar
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    So has the Alaska Airman's Association been alerted to this yet?

    When I first moved to Anchorage they wanted like $650 year per plane tax for Anchorage. It was a penalty for owning a plane as you could own an equivalent valued motorhome and pay far less.

    It took quite a bit of time for the AAA and some upset airplane owning attorneys to get the change made to the $75 for single and $150 for multiengine (I think).
    Ed

  12. #12
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Knowing the State they'll likely note what benefits we as aircraft owner/operators will loose unless the fee is implemented. Be prepared to debate that issue at the meetings.

    I hope the DOTPF presentations will also be made available to those that don't attend the public meetings. It's like a FAA Notice of Proposed Rulemaking process or at least should be.

    Currently we know the proposed amendment: "17 AAC 41 Aeronautics is proposed to be added as follows...." http://dot.alaska.gov/stwdav/aircraf...ation-regs.pdf

    Now we need to discover why.

    Gary
    Last edited by BC12D-4-85; 11-03-2017 at 04:24 PM.

  13. #13
    skukum12's Avatar
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    The above link is very ambiguous, is there a more specific link?
    "Always looking up"

  14. #14
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skukum12 View Post
    The above link is very ambiguous, is there a more specific link?
    The proposal from the OP's link above: http://dot.alaska.gov/stwdav/aircraf...ation-regs.pdf

    Gary
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    Barnstormer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eskflyer View Post
    Good morning Phil. Yes tax fee user fee. It's a bad idea. Hey fly on out it's only fog��, have sourdough pancakes n bacon on the grill at treasure chest, Perry's propstrike junction.
    What! I can fly somewhere and there is food waiting for me?! Have I died and gone to heaven?

    I'd fly over today, I mean I can see a good hundred feet and that's more then enough to get in the air. Of course the rest isn't so good, you know, that whole vertigo thing.

    So where are these sourdough pancakes n bacon and do they happen on days without fog?

  16. #16
    Barnstormer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eskflyer View Post
    ...aircraft not in the state more than 180 days will not he subject to this user fee.
    By the way, this is exactly the reason ADS-B is being rammed down our throat. Does anyone REALLY think it won't be used for exactly these kind of things, as a revenue generator? Give me a break.

  17. #17
    skukum12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    The proposal from the OP's link above: http://dot.alaska.gov/stwdav/aircraf...ation-regs.pdf

    Gary
    I should have been more specific myself. Where do we leave comments?
    "Always looking up"
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  18. #18
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skukum12 View Post
    I should have been more specific myself. Where do we leave comments?
    "You may also submit written comments and questions relevant to the proposed action to Rich Sewell, Aviation Policy Planner, Alaska Department of Transportation and Public Facilities, P.O. Box 196900, Anchorage, Alaska 99519, or by email to: StatewideAviation@alaska.gov "

    Gary


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    I started researching this and called Rich Sewell at the State Aviation office of AKDOT. This registration is being brought to you on recommendation of the Aviation Advisory Board. AKDOT maintains approx. 340 airports at a yearly costs of $36mil. The legislature taxes both Avgas and Jet A and these fuel taxes brought in slightly less that $2mil this past year. The proposed registration fees on 10,000 aircraft at the "private" rate would bring in another $1.5mil per year.

    So I asked what I get...you get state maintained airports. What if I already pay to maintain a private airport and don't use state maintained airports...you get state maintained airports.

    This is nothing more that a money grab by bureaucrats from aircraft owners. They can't call it a tax because only the legislature can tax. Many other ways to help this budget, including spending less, user fees, or transferring airport ownership to local communities etc. To avoid the R&R section I'll stop my comments there...

    In the AK public comment link, there is a link to public comment meetings to be held in Juneau, ANC, and FAI.

    v/r
    Bryan
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  20. #20
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    From the above "So I asked what I get...you get state maintained airports." Ok that's what I suspected.

    Now...what about registering with a user fee every group like local residents, commercial businesses, land owners, various corporations, and so on that benefit from the same airport? Not likely to happen as that would be construed as a tax. With an election year coming up I doubt the Legislature would be interested in bringing this topic to the floor out of committee for a vote.

    I pay the State to park at a State maintained airport. If I buy fuel there I pay a tax. This registration will benefit me less than folks that depend on the 340 airports for support services.

    Gary

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    I hope you guys fight it big time. And if there is a place to sign a petition, send it to me. Down here in Missouri, they are starting to steal from our pockets too.

    Blue skies,
    Denny
    If you get lost while flying, don't try hail a cop. Pick up the first railroad you find and hug it until you get somewhere.

  22. #22
    aktango58's Avatar
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    So much I can not say in public, but I will say that there are actually better ways to approach this issue than the above.

    First, make your voice heard to the aviation advisory board. Never heard of them? Figured as much- make sure you include that in your email because as a group supposed to represent, I have not seen them out there.

    Next- email this guy: dot.commissioner@alaska.gov

    Please be respectful, use substantiated arguments, and realize he really is for aviation and the public.

    Now an important point: We have had a good ride for many years up here. The state coffers are getting bare, and there are 600,000 people asking for money to be put towards their favorite program. If we don't want to pay a plane registration fee, but want the same level of service, what can we offer to do to help the funding shortfall? Where can we reasonably offer DOT to save dollars? They have seen more than a 25% cut in the last 6 years. You have not seen roads closed, airports closed, or harbors closed.

    Let's as a group step up and find a solution instead of just berating DOT. The dollars are not there currently to continue as they have been.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by aktango58 View Post
    So much I can not say in public, but I will say that there are actually better ways to approach this issue than the above.

    First, make your voice heard to the aviation advisory board. Never heard of them? Figured as much- make sure you include that in your email because as a group supposed to represent, I have not seen them out there.

    Next- email this guy: dot.commissioner@alaska.gov

    Please be respectful, use substantiated arguments, and realize he really is for aviation and the public.

    Now an important point: We have had a good ride for many years up here. The state coffers are getting bare, and there are 600,000 people asking for money to be put towards their favorite program. If we don't want to pay a plane registration fee, but want the same level of service, what can we offer to do to help the funding shortfall? Where can we reasonably offer DOT to save dollars? They have seen more than a 25% cut in the last 6 years. You have not seen roads closed, airports closed, or harbors closed.

    Let's as a group step up and find a solution instead of just berating DOT. The dollars are not there currently to continue as they have been.
    George,

    You are wise beyond your years in a kilt!

    The Oklahoma Legislature’s DOUBLEING of aircraft registration fees goes into effect this year...JOY!

    Kirby
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  24. #24
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    I don't think berating DOT is the venue or intent so far...what the issue means to me and ultimate question becomes is who is going to continue to pay for existing services? We already pay taxes/gallon via our purchase of motor fuel in Alaska that are passed on to us by the wholesalers and distributors - http://www.tax.alaska.gov/programs/p...dex.aspx?60210. That's likely to increase to generate revenue. Those that burn lots of fuel will wage that the registration fee will be cheaper than more taxes on fuel.

    As a non-commercial pilot I might be able to land at an airport beyond my base but only by choice and not for compensation. It hasn't happened in 25 years but it might someday. All my ops are off airport or on private strips or ponds. Other than that I pay $540/year to park at FAI. For that I get to maintain my lot and have a place to park. Fair enough. The State plows snow on the taxiways when able. I don't use paved surfaces for takeoff and landing.

    I suggest the real negotiable cost exclusive of the three International airports are the non-urban airports. Should we as owner/operators be tasked to support what we don't or rarely use compared with commercial operators or local dependent residents? That'll be a good item for debate as we hear more about effects of reduced services.

    Gary

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    Snow Machine registrations are great for south central!
    Tim

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    Deleted. double post
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    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    What George said.

    And NOBODY has mentioned the $1100 Permanent Fund Dividend. Is it still per PERSON - not household? Paid out of State savings, not current oil income. I lived in Ak when that started. And I lived in Ak before that, when I paid a State income tax.

    600,000 population now? Doubled since I was a resident. Yikes!!

    And lessee, when I moved, the sales tax in the Juneau Borough was 4.something %. Now in Wa, it's 8%, and yeah, we have an aircraft registration tax. No wait - a user fee.
    Last edited by Gordon Misch; 11-03-2017 at 11:42 PM.
    Gordon

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  28. #28
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    An example of a previous resolution by the DOT&PF Aviation Advisory Board (http://dot.alaska.gov/stwdav/AAB.shtml) to support Rural airports: http://dot.alaska.gov/stwdav/documen...System2017.pdf

    This shouldn't be vetted as an urban<>rural issue and I hope it doesn't become that via fees.

    Gary

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    We pay DOT around $1300 a year for the property lease our hangar sits on. They keep the snow plowed, even on the taxi way when they have time. Guess I can pony - up another $150.

    "The only thing cheap about an airplane is the person who owns it." gdc, 1988
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbflyer View Post
    We pay DOT around $1300 a year for the property lease our hangar sits on. They keep the snow plowed, even on the taxi way when they have time. Guess I can pony - up another $150.

    "The only thing cheap about an airplane is the person who owns it." gdc, 1988
    The ramp is in great condition at PAGS too. Thank you and big Mahalo Brah for letting me use your hangar, trucks etc... Alaska mo beta!

    Click image for larger version. 

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  31. #31

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    Taxes are coming for Alaskans. We've lived on the oil companies for so long our entitlements are engrained in us and resistance to taxes and fees is a reflex. In a couple of years this $150 registration fee will seem trivial. If we can invigorate our economy we all can absorb taxes and fees pretty easily. The key is to stimulate growth in the economy but Alaskans are against everything. No mines, no dams, no logging, no gas pipeline. No private development interest at Birchwood. I hope whoever makes those little anti mining bumper stickers is making bank because that's the only new industry Alaska has seen in several years. Maybe they can pay a crapload of taxes so the rest of us won't have to?
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    CamTom12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    i hope whoever makes those little anti mining bumper stickers is making bank because that's the only new industry alaska has seen in several years. Maybe they can pay a crapload of taxes so the rest of us won't have to?
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  33. #33
    aktango58's Avatar
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    I was looking up the "aviation advisory board" and who exactly is on it. Pretty much what you would expect: 135 guys, 121 guys, international airport people, big city office folk and a token private guy.

    My resistance is not as much to be paying for what we use, but what I suspect is that this is going to further allow the big airports to continue building, but the rural airports will not get the benefit. Also, we small guys parking on private strips will be paying for what we don't use.

    I see this as an encompassing tax to maintain places that are essentially commercial operators only. Many airports out west see almost no private planes land on them, but are needed for the commercial operators to bring people in and out.

    At least with automobiles if you don't take them on roads you don't need to register them.

    I think I would be very receptive to an increase in fuel tax, as that is more a pay for what you use; also less paperwork for me!
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
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  34. #34
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Bargaining chip...vehicle registrations in Alaska are for a two year period. If the requested fees ($150/$250) are enacted then it should cover two years at the suggested rate before renewal, and not be an annual expense at that rate. Then there's enforcement...who's going to be tasked as the Aircraft Registration Police?

    Gary

    Edit: Enforcement police identified:

    17 AAC 41.040. Display of registration.
    (a) An aircraft’s current certificate of registration shall be carried in the aircraft at all times.
    (b) An aircraft’s certificate of registration shall be made available for examination upon reasonable request by any authorized official or employee of the department, or person charged with the duty of enforcing laws of this state.
    Last edited by BC12D-4-85; 11-04-2017 at 02:21 PM.

  35. #35
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    The more I peel this registration and fee onion the weirder it gets. Here's a draft of a proposal from 9/8/16 regarding aircraft registration in Alaska and the justification. The suggested fee ($5) and estimated administrative expenses are noted in the text: http://www.alaskaaircarriers.org/upl...er_-_draft.pdf

    Wonder what's next?

    Gary

  36. #36
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    If you read the above article that mile posted. It says in it this is walker himself proposes this as a user fee. But it is not fairly being implemented. Every aircraft that uses Alaska airports should be taxed not just the ones that live up here. And also see that his royal highness wants to bring avgas taxes to almost a buck now. Please contact your local representative , and ask for this to be voted down.
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  38. #38

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    I am not in favor of taxing aircraft not based in the state. How would you like doing a flying tour in lower 48 and have to pay a tax in every state you landed in?
    DENNY
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  39. #39
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    Here is MN for you. After awhile one loses the the energy to fight as mentioned earlier in the thread. I had no idea AK didn't have a registration fee. Is the oil money getting tighter or does that have nothing to do with it? Everywhere one turns nowadays are reasons the flying GA ownership population grows smaller. If you were running a caravan the reg fee in MN would be $2000.
    http://www.dot.state.mn.us/aero/airc...formation.html
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  40. #40
    CamTom12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DENNY View Post
    I am not in favor of taxing aircraft not based in the state. How would you like doing a flying tour in lower 48 and have to pay a tax in every state you landed in?
    DENNY
    Like Canada? I think if there's a Use Fee, all aviation that uses the services should share it. If there's a tax, I think that's a state/borough thing.

    I got a bill for something around $20 from Canada last time I flew through there. Pretty reasonable. I've heard they're accrued quarterly. Doesn't seem terrible.

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