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Thread: PPonk ID

  1. #1
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    PPonk ID

    Can you identify a -50 PPonk via visual inspection?

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    The STC requires a supplemental engine data plate be added to the original.

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    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    cylinders are bigger

  4. #4
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    cylinders are bigger
    Do 520 jugs look any different other than size?

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    No. Slightly bigger in diameter in bore but otherwise identical. Same with case and accessories. If the motor is legal it should have the supplemental data tag. Another mod that most guys opt for is the seventh stud, a common hold-down plate between cylinders, but the presence or absence isn't conclusive evidence.
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  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    Do 520 jugs look any different other than size?
    Mines striped down for annual at the moment, you want me to measure something or take some pics in the morning?
    .
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

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    Ruffair's Avatar
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    Yes
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    "...We're fast enough to get there, But slow enough to see..."
    Fron the song "Barometer Soup". By Jimmy Buffett
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    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLDCROWE View Post
    Mines striped down for annual at the moment, you want me to measure something or take some pics in the morning?
    .
    A pic of the data plate would help! Thanks.

  9. #9
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Do they all have the MA4-5 Marvel carb?

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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    O-470-K
    100_4191.JPG

    An IO-520E converted to an O-520-D and then to an O-470-50.
    DSCF5320.jpg

    The P-Ponk is a pretty sweet set up for sure.
    100_5334.JPG
    Steve Pierce

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  11. #11
    SJ's Avatar
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    That last one is no longer as shiny....

    sj
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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    It sure was purty though. .
    100_5313.JPG
    Steve Pierce

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  13. #13
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Do they all have the dual stack exhaust?

  14. #14
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Depends on which model 180. Had to have the exhaust flanges changed to the 4 bolt from the original 2. Cowls and airboxes were different on different model years.
    Steve Pierce

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    SJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    It sure was purty though. .
    Hmmm I can't help but notice Dave's hat...
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
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  16. #16
    SJ's Avatar
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    Eddie, if you have not read this, you will want to: http://skywagons.com/content/cessna-...n-year-changes

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
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    180Marty's Avatar
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    SJ, I'm surprised you didn't upgrade to the Knisley dual exhaust. When I did my K install, I ran what you have for a year and then got the Knisley. Flanges match up to the bigger exhaust ports and not all the clamps.

  18. #18
    SJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 180Marty View Post
    SJ, I'm surprised you didn't upgrade to the Knisley dual exhaust. When I did my K install, I ran what you have for a year and then got the Knisley. Flanges match up to the bigger exhaust ports and not all the clamps.
    Marty, I was already in WAY too deep if you know what I mean

    sj
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    O-470-K
    100_4191.JPG

    An IO-520E converted to an O-520-D and then to an O-470-50.
    DSCF5320.jpg
    Interesting that both of these engines appear to have primer lines going to only 4 of the 6 cylinders.
    Any particular reasoning behind this?
    My 53 C180's 470K primer lines are plumbed with a couple tees, going to only 2 cylinders.
    Don't remember exactly which ones but they're both on the LH side.
    A buddy's 54 C180's 470J had all 6 cylinders primed, with a 6-way distribution block as shown here.
    I thought mine had been goobered up by someone, but my C180 IPC shows it can be either way.
    Seems to me like priming all 6 would be the way to go. ??
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  20. #20
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    Interesting that both of these engines appear to have primer lines going to only 4 of the 6 cylinders.
    Any particular reasoning behind this?...?
    so you can't flood ALL of the cylinders...

  21. #21
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    just a FYI, if you use a IO-520 and convert it to a PPonk you do NOT get the higher TBO, or so FAA determined to the dismay of a customer...

  22. #22
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    just a FYI, if you use a IO-520 and convert it to a PPonk you do NOT get the higher TBO, or so FAA determined to the dismay of a customer...
    I don't pay much attention to the manufacturer's TBO anyway. Luckily I only work on Part 91 stuff and these times and calendar times are not regulated.
    Steve Pierce

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  23. #23
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    FWIW the son of a guy I knew was selling a C180 with a Texas Skyways engine conversion.
    It had 1600 or 1700 hours on it but was advertised as being "mid time".
    IMHO it was not mid time, regardless of the (claimed) TBO of 2400 or 2500 hours.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  24. #24
    texmex's Avatar
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    A buddy's 54 C180's 470J had all 6 cylinders primed, with a 6-way distribution block as shown here.
    Now that can be deceptive. I've got the same 6-way block on mine and I found out last weekend when changing out six cylinders that the middle two were blanked at the cylinder end. The lines from the block were running to the blanks.

    My buddy who spent years overhauling Lycomings tells me he's seen the 360's with everything from 1 to 4 with priming lines.
    Last edited by texmex; 11-01-2017 at 04:05 PM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    just a FYI, if you use a IO-520 and convert it to a PPonk you do NOT get the higher TBO, or so FAA determined to the dismay of a customer...
    How many people get TBO on any Continental?

  26. #26
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    How many people get TBO on any Continental?
    we went through a few for airtaxi and a few prop strikes got a few.

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    How many people get TBO on any Continental?
    I fully expect to and plus, but I fly it a bunch.
    Last edited by OLDCROWE; 11-01-2017 at 08:30 PM.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!
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  28. #28
    gdafoe's Avatar
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    We (MAF) just about always do and have for many years. But then we fly them several hours most every day, that makes all the difference.
    Gerald

  29. #29
    Ruffair's Avatar
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    Saw something like 2000 hours on an 0-470R. Was using 1 qt oil about every 20 hours. changed oil
    every 25 hours.

    I think recommendated TBO was 1500 or 1700 hours.
    Last edited by Ruffair; 11-01-2017 at 11:32 PM.
    "...We're fast enough to get there, But slow enough to see..."
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    Quote Originally Posted by texmex View Post
    Now that can be deceptive. I've got the same 6-way block on mine and I found out last weekend when changing out six cylinders that the middle two were blanked at the cylinder end. The lines from the block were running to the blanks.....
    What do you mean when you say "blanks"?
    If I was disconnecting some of the primer lines, I would remove the tubing and install a plug at the distributor manifold.
    Some people might go the quick and dirty route, and just pinch the tubing flat at either end.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  31. #31
    texmex's Avatar
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    What do you mean when you say "blanks"?
    If I was disconnecting some of the primer lines, I would remove the tubing and install a plug at the distributor manifold.
    Some people might go the quick and dirty route, and just pinch the tubing flat at either end.
    Sorry it's been a few days. But this afternoon I pulled the nozzle out from number three cylinder.

    Note the six way fuel priming distribution block. And in particular the line running to number three cylinder.

    IMG_3250.jpg


    And when the nozzle is pulled out you can see it's been plugged. The same with number 4 cylinder. I know of this because recently I put six overhualed cylinders on the engine.

    But why? I have no idea.

    IMG_3253.jpg

  32. #32
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Soak in Hoppe's #9 gun cleaning solvent. Will come out like new.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  33. #33
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    I think I'd clean those out if it was me.
    As far as "so you don't flood ALL the cylinders", that seems like a poor reason.
    It's all about technique.

    FWIW the Lyc 320 in my old C150/150 was primed at all cylinders.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  34. #34
    texmex's Avatar
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    Not square on, but the one on the left has a big hole through it. Four primming nozzles are like this.

    The one in the centre has a blank that sits proud. To be sure I filed the with a points file.

    The one on the right, has a blank that sits inwards. I poked around it with a pick and it's blank.

    I don't have access to 'Hoppe's gun wash' but instead soaked the two blanks in acetone and then blew them off with acetion in a spray gun. (I'll try to locate some Hoppe's when next in the big town)

    I have no idea why two are blanked, and why they're blanked with different shaped plugs.

    But there it is. The six way distribution block does not necessarily mean all are being primed.

    IMG_3843.jpeg

  35. #35
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by texmex View Post
    Not square on, but the one on the left has a big hole through it. Four primming nozzles are like this.

    The one in the centre has a blank that sits proud. To be sure I filed the with a points file.

    The one on the right, has a blank that sits inwards. I poked around it with a pick and it's blank.

    I don't have access to 'Hoppe's gun wash' but instead soaked the two blanks in acetone and then blew them off with acetion in a spray gun. (I'll try to locate some Hoppe's when next in the big town)

    I have no idea why two are blanked, and why they're blanked with different shaped plugs.

    But there it is. The six way distribution block does not necessarily mean all are being primed.

    IMG_3843.jpeg
    only the center one MIGHT be a primer.....

    it should have a very small hole only.... it needs to atomize the fuel some not just dump it in...

    left one is just a fitting, or it lost it sodered in guts...

    you need to go shopping or modify them

  36. #36
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...erfittings.php "The (AN780-2 brass primer fitting)is not a primer fitting. AN780-2 is a 1/8 pipe thread to 1/8 cone fitting. Most commonly used in a primer system. This is a bad nomenclature description. AN4022-1 is a primer discharge nozzle or fitting."

    IF your lines have that style end fittings...

  37. #37
    texmex's Avatar
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    Thanks Mike.

    AN4022-1

    Six ordered now. (I was thinking the one on the left is a big hole, but knew no better)

  38. #38
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    I had a PPONK in an L-19 Bird Dog. It was made from a TSIO 520, with the blower removed, hence the lower compression ratio. Other wise they're built up from a modified O-470. The biggest problem is getting enough fuel to the cylinders to keep them cool with the MA4-5. This engine would be a lot better off with injection. Since we used it for banner towing, our cylinder issues could heave been the application, and/or more than one pilot flying the plane. When a pilot asked me how much they should have leaned flying at 500 feet, I became apoplectic. (I think that means nuts)

  39. #39

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    Here's mine, with Dane Wagner's Leading Edge exhaust. Great combination, especially when paired to a light airframe.
    Steve Pierce: Can you explain your fuel line setup? It looks like you have a hose from the gascolator to a fitting on the lower right side of the firewall, thence to the carburetor.
    Pictures would be appreciated, if not causing problems with the thread.
    Also: How are you securing the lower part of the crankcase vent tube? Again, a picture is worth a thousand words.

    Piloto
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  40. #40
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piloto66 View Post
    .....Steve Pierce: Can you explain your fuel line setup? It looks like you have a hose from the gascolator to a fitting on the lower right side of the firewall, thence to the carburetor......
    Looks to me like a "cube" flow-meter for a fuel flow gauge.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

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