Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 55

Thread: Ferrying a Super Cub to Bolivia

  1. #1
    DJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bolivia
    Posts
    95
    Post Thanks / Like

    Ferrying a Super Cub to Bolivia

    Looking for ideas/advice on putting ferry tanks in a Cub.
    Planning to go the Caribbean route with the longest required leg being just under 700sm. The plane is an experimental 180 hp Super Cub with stock tanks, (no headers) a cargo pod and 35s. Shipping the 35s and pod is not really an option. I figured that to have climb fuel and 2 hour reserve I'll need around 90 gals usable to make 700 miles.
    The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands. Psalms 19:1

  2. #2
    nanook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    northern alaska
    Posts
    1,502
    Post Thanks / Like
    With that setup, the dry land route would be preferable.
    Likes Superdan00 liked this post

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    corvallis,or
    Posts
    353
    Post Thanks / Like
    Put the 35's in the cargo pod and run 6:00 -6". Or put the 35's in the back seat.
    Likes Jon Delamarter liked this post

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,089
    Post Thanks / Like
    1. Get a old 90 gal spray tank with pump and strap it on the belly. (YOU LOOSE THE POD)
    2. Keep pod and put fuel bladder in pod and back seat with pump. (spend money)
    3 9 Bushwheel bags in pod/back seat refuel at piss stops.
    DENNY
    Likes akwing liked this post

  5. #5

    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Bellingen, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    697
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by DJ View Post
    Looking for ideas/advice on putting ferry tanks in a Cub.
    Planning to go the Caribbean route with the longest required leg being just under 700sm. The plane is an experimental 180 hp Super Cub with stock tanks, (no headers) a cargo pod and 35s. Shipping the 35s and pod is not really an option. I figured that to have climb fuel and 2 hour reserve I'll need around 90 gals usable to make 700 miles.
    Your only realistic option is a 60 gallon Turtlepac on the back seat, but even then this is a stretch and that would be heavy and behind your CG. With that Cub's cruise speed the effects of any unexpected headwind could be disastrous. I think this is an unwise undertaking. Your margins are narrow.

    https://www.turtlepac.com
    Thanks Eddy Lewis thanked for this post
    Likes skipster liked this post

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Meanwhile,...
    Posts
    4,367
    Post Thanks / Like
    Take the wings off and put it in a shipping container.
    Remember, These are the Good old Days!

  7. #7
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    7,243
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by DJ View Post
    Planning to go the Caribbean route with the longest required leg being just under 700sm. The plane is an experimental 180 hp Super Cub with stock tanks, (no headers) a cargo pod and 35s... I figured that to have climb fuel and 2 hour reserve I'll need around 90 gals usable to make 700 miles.
    Just thinking out loud. This is what I would plan on doing. But then I wouldn't even think of that distance over water without floats under the plane or two engines and lots of fuel.
    700 miles between possible landing locations.
    A carburetor 180 Lyc at 75% burns roughly 10 gph. Yes you can pull the throttle back for less fuel burn with the accompanying loss of speed.
    What is the cruise speed of this Cub, 80-85 mph? Let's call it 70 mph to account for unplanned head winds. It doesn't take much of a head wind to drop a Cub's ground speed a lot.
    700 miles @ 70 mph = 10 hours plus 2 hours reserve = 12 hours X 10 gph = 120 gallons.
    120 - 36 = 84 gallons extra. 84 gallons = 11.2 cubic feet. Or 504 extra pounds of fuel.
    You need a 11.2 cubic foot tank in the back seat area. Build it so that the front of the tank is against the back of the front seat. Pay attention to the CG location expecting an over weight situation. The Cub will handle the weight as long as the CG is within reason. A custom built aluminum tank for this purpose is common for long distance ferry flights.

    Your tolerance may be different than mine. Having been in situations where there was nowhere to go for more gas, with unexpected headwinds, flying for nearly an hour with the gauges on E, I consider the above a minimum. If you have an accurate fuel flow meter on board you may be able to tighten the requirements a bit.
    N1PA
    Thanks Bassackwards, Airhutch, pfm thanked for this post
    Likes FdxLou, C-FIJK liked this post

  8. #8
    behindpropellers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    6,561
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Just thinking out loud. This is what I would plan on doing. But then I wouldn't even think of that distance over water without floats under the plane or two engines and lots of fuel.
    700 miles between possible landing locations.
    A carburetor 180 Lyc at 75% burns roughly 10 gph. Yes you can pull the throttle back for less fuel burn with the accompanying loss of speed.
    What is the cruise speed of this Cub, 80-85 mph? Let's call it 70 mph to account for unplanned head winds. It doesn't take much of a head wind to drop a Cub's ground speed a lot.
    700 miles @ 70 mph = 10 hours plus 2 hours reserve = 12 hours X 10 gph = 120 gallons.
    120 - 36 = 84 gallons extra. 84 gallons = 11.2 cubic feet. Or 504 extra pounds of fuel.
    You need a 11.2 cubic foot tank in the back seat area. Build it so that the front of the tank is against the back of the front seat. Pay attention to the CG location expecting an over weight situation. The Cub will handle the weight as long as the CG is within reason. A custom built aluminum tank for this purpose is common for long distance ferry flights.

    Your tolerance may be different than mine. Having been in situations where there was nowhere to go for more gas, with unexpected headwinds, flying for nearly an hour with the gauges on E, I consider the above a minimum. If you have an accurate fuel flow meter on board you may be able to tighten the requirements a bit.
    I would do the above, plus give yourself a 4-7 day window an pick a time when you have a nice tailwind.

  9. #9
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    7,243
    Post Thanks / Like
    Also educate yourself on the "trade winds" in the Caribbean. In some locations you will have a tail wind at a particular altitude and a head wind at another altitude. Needless to say there is more to this flight than just gasoline.
    N1PA

  10. #10
    DJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bolivia
    Posts
    95
    Post Thanks / Like
    I appreciate the ideas....I've done the route southbound twice and northbound twice (in faster airplanes) and the winds weren't too bad either time. The land route through Columbia has even longer required legs.
    35s don't fit in the pod or in the back seat. The 60 gal turtle pac bladder was the original plan. Have looked at a 60 gal Sorensen tank but the owner wants $2K without plumbing or pumps (and I loose my pod like Denny said).

    With the Caribbean route the longest overwater distance between islands is pretty short (less than 70 miles) as long as I follow the island chain.

    I have an accurate fuel flow meter. I should know later this week what cruise speeds I can get with the 35s. I'm hoping for 83 mph indicated at 9.5K and 9 gph which will give me 100 true, minus a 10 mph headwind is 90 true. I will go higher than 9.5K if possible. 17 gals of reserve and 5 gals for the climb gives me 680 miles safe range on 90 usable. My longest leg would be 670 in Brazil.
    The big question is how to get the fuel in the plane.
    Does anyone have a big ferry tank or bladder (or two smaller ones?)
    The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands. Psalms 19:1

  11. #11
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    chugiak AK
    Posts
    8,562
    Post Thanks / Like
    thinking out loud.. not simple..

    how much fuel do 35's hold? how would you transfer it in flight?

    wasn't there a mini dirt bike decades ago with fuel in the tires?? I can picture it, just can't remember the name of it... even seen one for sale up here...

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,089
    Post Thanks / Like
    Most of the 180 cubs tend to be pretty fast even with 35's. Depending on the prop you should be able to do 90 with a 8 gal/hr fuel burn. To get the fuel to the tanks put a T in the line with a one way valve and a 12 v fuel pump. As tank gets low add until full, don't forget to turn pump off, repeat until home. A good fuel flow is the key. Do you usually carry a raft and PLB?
    DENNY

  13. #13
    DJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bolivia
    Posts
    95
    Post Thanks / Like
    This one has an incidence of 7 degrees, a Catto 86/38 and TK1s. I'm afraid its slower than most. Getting the fuel burn down to 8 or less would really help the range. Will have life vests, a PLB, Delorme Inreach, Laser Flare and Spot, still working on borrowing a raft. I figured I would T into the left tank and use it primarily. That way I could keep the right tank full for the reserve.
    The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands. Psalms 19:1

  14. #14
    tcraft128's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    St. Marys GA
    Posts
    744
    Post Thanks / Like
    I have a metal cruise prop in the classified section that gave me a honest 110mph on 180hp. It uses the same bolts as the Catto and my plane is setup the same as Dans with the exception of 31s.
    Turning money into noise since 1996

    Our Build here

    Likes barrow pilot, Steve Pierce liked this post

  15. #15
    mvivion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Bozeman,MT
    Posts
    9,369
    Post Thanks / Like
    I’m curious why not ship the Bushwheel’s? Is there a Customs tax or? Seems you’d increase speed and thus save gas enough to pay for shipping.

    Or not.

    if you didn’t have the pod to deal with I’d suggest finding a Soenson belly tank.

    Otherwise, it seems like a ferry tank behind the pilot seat is your only option.

    MTV

  16. #16
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    chugiak AK
    Posts
    8,562
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    thinking out loud.. not simple..

    how much fuel do 35's hold? how would you transfer it in flight?

    wasn't there a mini dirt bike decades ago with fuel in the tires?? I can picture it, just can't remember the name of it... even seen one for sale up here...
    ok maybe not hard.... to me...

    the one hour of thought solution to carrying fuel in the 35” tires….


    dual transfer collar on face of rim, with inflatable seals
    one hole under one track of transfer collar in rim with tube and weight on it so it always lays at bottom of tire(this might be exterior/interior transfer from tire to transfer ring, think like valve stem)
    other hole/track in transfer collar to air valve stem, to pressurize tire to push fuel, and inflate tire to proper pressure after fuel transfer…


    other parts,
    small air pump(s?) pressure gauge & switch
    valve(s)?
    fuel line to gas tank


    that cures the getting it out of tire….
    getting the gas In the tire probably need kick stand under axel while you fill tire with fuel… (how?? gas cap is what??)

  17. #17
    DJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bolivia
    Posts
    95
    Post Thanks / Like
    Yes the taxes would be $1000-1500, plus shipping, and I wouldn't see them for 6 months plus unless they went air freight ($$$$)
    The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands. Psalms 19:1

  18. #18
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    chugiak AK
    Posts
    8,562
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by DJ View Post
    This one has an incidence of 7 degrees,
    can you make a new bolt on front wing attach fittings on wing like others have, to set different incidence angles... think 'extra vertical holes'

  19. #19
    DJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bolivia
    Posts
    95
    Post Thanks / Like
    I think it would require re-rigging everything and refitting windshield etc. The aileron cable runs above tubes in the top deck. I guess I can't picture an easy change.
    The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands. Psalms 19:1

  20. #20
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    chugiak AK
    Posts
    8,562
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by DJ View Post
    I think it would require re-rigging everything and refitting windshield etc. The aileron cable runs above tubes in the top deck. I guess I can't picture an easy change.
    cable would be below tubes then....

    making fairing would be easy...

  21. #21
    PerryB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Northern Calif.
    Posts
    1,274
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mike, you're thinking of a Rokon. It was also 2 wheel drive.
    After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF !
    Likes mike mcs repair liked this post

  22. #22
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    chugiak AK
    Posts
    8,562
    Post Thanks / Like
    actually,
    getting fuel into the tires would be easy... it would already be plumbed to transfer FROM tire to TANK... so you would just fill tank, transfer to tires, then refill tanks...

  23. #23

    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas
    Posts
    22
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    actually,
    getting fuel into the tires would be easy... it would already be plumbed to transfer FROM tire to TANK... so you would just fill tank, transfer to tires, then refill tanks...
    Beginner's question here. You're talking about using the aircraft-mounted tires as holding tanks for gasoline to be transferred in flight? I must be misunderstanding this - tires and gasoline don't mix and gas dissolves tires, not to mention hot brakes and vapors. What am I missing?
    Likes FdxLou liked this post

  24. #24

    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Platinum
    Posts
    182
    Post Thanks / Like
    What about....thinking about a radar dome on the E3 Sentry....something like a roof mount car luggage carrier? Cept...it would look like an oblong drop tank mounted above the fuselage....Structure is there...wing attach fittings.. streamline tubing to create the tank support structure... plumb into one of the fuel level sight gauges and install a little ball valve...


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Likes mike mcs repair liked this post

  25. #25
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    chugiak AK
    Posts
    8,562
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaywalker View Post
    Beginner's question here. You're talking about using the aircraft-mounted tires as holding tanks for gasoline to be transferred in flight? I must be misunderstanding this - tires and gasoline don't mix and gas dissolves tires, not to mention hot brakes and vapors. What am I missing?
    same company that makes the bushwheels make rubber fuel bags, so they probably know how/what....

  26. #26
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    chugiak AK
    Posts
    8,562
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_Moyle View Post
    What about....thinking about a radar dome on the E3 Sentry....something like a roof mount car luggage carrier? Cept...it would look like an oblong drop tank mounted above the fuselage....Structure is there...wing attach fittings.. streamline tubing to create the tank support structure... plumb into one of the fuel level sight gauges and install a little ball valve...


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    thats a heck of a good idea.... have to get randy at carbon concepts on it.... http://www.carbonconceptsak.com

  27. #27

    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    29
    Post Thanks / Like
    My longest leg would be 670 in Brazil
    Any strips or landing sites you could land on and fill from jugs carried in the back seat? maybe amphibs are in order?

  28. #28
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    chugiak AK
    Posts
    8,562
    Post Thanks / Like
    Cessna's got rubber fuel tank bladders.....

  29. #29

    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas
    Posts
    22
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    same company that makes the bushwheels make rubber fuel bags, so they probably know how/what....
    Same company doesn't necessarily mean same rubber compound in both tires and fuel bladders.

    https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiret...jsp?techid=262 They're pretty clear that gasoline damages tires.

  30. #30
    Little_Cub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Palmer, Alaska
    Posts
    237
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by DJ View Post
    Yes the taxes would be $1000-1500, plus shipping, and I wouldn't see them for 6 months plus unless they went air freight ($$$$)
    do you need 35's down there? can you load enough fuel and stow the 35's?

    hows the oil burn in that machine?

    would sure have an alternate (possibly mechanical) pump in place.. just cause.

    super-cruse prop

    wait for the winds!

    fill the belly

    thats a knee knocker!

  31. #31
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    chugiak AK
    Posts
    8,562
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_Moyle View Post
    What about....thinking about a radar dome on the E3 Sentry....something like a roof mount car luggage carrier? Cept...it would look like an oblong drop tank mounted above the fuselage....Structure is there...wing attach fittings.. streamline tubing to create the tank support structure... plumb into one of the fuel level sight gauges and install a little ball valve...


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    it would be pretty easy to fab one of those up using aluminum & rivets, put the seams out on the sides, some pro seal.... do the bottom mount with angle aluminum cross ways? rivet that to floor first and pro seal before doing sides....

  32. #32
    Tim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Petersburgh, NY
    Posts
    3,351
    Post Thanks / Like
    Get Dan to fly it down there, let him worry about it
    Likes tcraft128, Steve Pierce liked this post

  33. #33
    cubdriver2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    upstate NY
    Posts
    8,050
    Post Thanks / Like
    This guy can (has) do it

    https://youtu.be/pFTf9fmxdic

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
    Thanks Oz. thanked for this post
    Likes tcraft128, Ruffair, Oz. liked this post

  34. #34

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Wanaka,NZ
    Posts
    298
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    With that setup, the dry land route would be preferable.
    The aircraft does not know it's over water.
    Just finished building a back country cub

  35. #35

    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    29
    Post Thanks / Like
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	rTE.PNG 
Views:	98 
Size:	1.10 MB 
ID:	33469Would this work from Trinidad?
    Georgetown and Boa Vista airports are ports of entry, miles are approx. (Google Earth).

    TTPP> SYGO 300NM
    SYGO>SBBV 280NM
    SBBV>SBEG 355NM
    SBEG>SWHT 320NM Carry 20 gallons from Manaus to Humaita and land there to pour it in, or buy car gas.
    SWHT>SBPV 90NM
    SBPV>SBVH 327NM
    SBVH>SLVR 345NM
    Last edited by Cappt; 10-30-2017 at 10:52 PM.

  36. #36
    nanook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    northern alaska
    Posts
    1,502
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by ron View Post
    The aircraft does not know it's over water.
    hundreds of pounds over gross, glide ratio of a rock with 35"s and pod, only 90 miles of open water to cross.
    what could possibly go wrong?

  37. #37
    DJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bolivia
    Posts
    95
    Post Thanks / Like
    Looking into the cruise prop idea. Got one 30 gallon tank in the backseat area and there is still lots of room for more. 60 gals back there would make me happy.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using SuperCub.Org mobile app
    The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands. Psalms 19:1

  38. #38
    Speedo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    AK
    Posts
    1,641
    Post Thanks / Like
    For a trip of that distance, it seems like a cruise prop is essential. Is Brian Sutton’s constant speed prop an option? It sure makes long trips go faster, and would help with the efficiency.

    I guess the problem would be finding someone who wants it when you get to your destination .
    Speedo

  39. #39
    L18C-95's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    353
    Post Thanks / Like
    Interesting dilemma - a Super Cub I fly was ferried across the Atlantic, I can see it been done with a belly tank, but not sure how you stay within CofG envelope with a large ferry tank in the rear.


    Sent from my iPad using SuperCub.Org

  40. #40
    DJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bolivia
    Posts
    95
    Post Thanks / Like
    I thought I would give an update on this ferry project.

    I tested two cruise props and the results were interesting.
    I didn't have OAT so the True airspeed calculations are approximate but conditions were similar.
    When testing the 76/60 prop I had 120 pounds of extra weight in the rear baggage.

    The airplane is a bit draggy with 7 degrees incidence, 35s, TK1s, dual shock T3, safety cables, and a belly pod.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20171124_163644.jpg 
Views:	107 
Size:	75.7 KB 
ID:	33906

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20171126_120241.jpg 
Views:	99 
Size:	84.1 KB 
ID:	33907
    Catto 86/38
    Redline 2700 rpm - 103 mph (about half throttle?)
    Static ~ 2350 (can't hold it, brakes slip, tires slip or tail comes up)
    Cruise @ 6500 ft and 7.7 gph - 84 indicated ~ 93 mph TAS (2500 rpm)


    Sensenich 76EMS - 54 pitch
    Full throttle at 1500 ft - 2750+ (115 mph)
    Static 2520+
    Cruise @ 6500 ft and 7.6 gph - 88 indicated ~ 97 mph TAS (2450 rpm)


    Sensenich 76EMM - 60 pitch
    Full throttle @ 1500 ft 2650 rpm ~ 117 mph
    Static ~ 2350 rpm
    Cruise @ 6500 ft and 7.7 gph - 88 indicated ~ 97 TAS (2400 rpm)

    I matched up the EGTs to the same temp each time on cylinder #1 at 7.7 gph to give the most apples to apples comparison.
    I really liked the way the 54 pitch performed. A 56 might be a little better in cruise?
    The 60 would be a great break-in prop but otherwise didn't seem very useful on a draggy Cub.

    The difference between the Catto and the 54 seemed about the same as the difference between the 54 and the 60 in takeoff and climb. The 60 really suffered with two people and full fuel.

    I'm thinking I'll stick with the Catto and not bother buying a cruise prop and paying import duty on it.

    We have two 29 gal tanks that will be installed in the rear seat area and baggage area totaling 58 gal. My empty CG with 6 qts. oil is 11.1 so the CG works out fine.

    Usable Fuel ~ 90
    Longest Legs - 650 sm (Brasil)
    Climb Fuel Allowance - 5 gals
    Reserve Fuel - 20 gals

    Cruise 95 MPH TAS @ 6500 ft (I'll go higher if weather permits)
    Cruise fuel burn 8 gph

    This basically gives me 8+ hours at 95 mph (8 x 95) = 760 miles

    With a 15 mph headwind (8 x 80 mph) = 640 miles + 10 miles covered during the climb = 650 miles

    More than 15 mph headwind I relax in a hotel and wait for a better day
    The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands. Psalms 19:1
    Likes Gordon Misch, pfm, pzinck liked this post

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-14-2015, 01:06 AM
  2. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-15-2015, 10:43 PM
  3. Super Cruiser Elevator/stick/system/ is super Cub type
    By Fortysix12 in forum Cafe Supercub
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-14-2012, 10:07 AM
  4. Off airport in Bolivia PA14-220?
    By DJ in forum Cafe Supercub
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 02-08-2009, 08:38 PM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •