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Thread: The Friendly Aviation Administration?

  1. #1
    Scouter's Avatar
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    The Friendly Aviation Administration?

    I really havent had much interaction directly with the FAA, other than repeatedly yanking my chain 4 times kicking back a registration for a plane owned by an LLC, It was no fun at that time
    This past weekend a different story. I and several others on this site have been involved with Wings for Wishes, a fundraising event planned out by a 15 year old boy. He has been working thru all the channels for a year and a half coordinating the event. It was both a fundraiser and to commemerate the 80th anniversary of Charles Lindberg landing on the beach at Old Orchard Beach

    www.wings4wishes.org

    The plan was to land 35 planes on the beach. The local guys at the Portland FSDO are good guys, they have been helping out
    Then the higher ups at the FAA got a sniff of it, and said no airplanes , none. It was only thru a lot of lobbying from the city and groups involved, they relented and let 16 land.
    I was lucky enough to be one. The FAA guy was running around like the airboss on a carrier. One of our guys did a go around for a bunch of seagulls and got a facefull of mr FAA
    I met a few make a wish kids and would have liked to give a couple rides but of course having fun would not be allowed
    I understand the need for safety with 6000 people at the "airport" but it felt like being in Russia

    The event was a huge success and raised over $14000 at last count for Make A Wish

    The FAA should be advocates for all of us in aviation not the adversary My post is not meant to start a firestorm, it was dissapointing to all of us to have to deal with it after so much work by so many people
    I hope someone from the FAA responds

    A dissapointed pilot

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    Last edited by Scouter; 10-04-2017 at 03:36 PM.

  2. #2

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    What justification did the Feds have to pick a number (16) to limit? Did anyone ask them who gave them authority to limit landings?

    I've been thru a few encounters like these, IMHO sometimes better to do it and ask for forgiveness than ask for permission.
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  3. #3
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    It's a shame the FAA higher-ups had to be a stick in the mud-
    esp when it was for a worthy cause.
    But good on you guys for sticking to your guns.
    And more good on you for raising that money.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  4. #4
    n40ff's Avatar
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    Lately there only consideration seems to be CYA

  5. #5
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
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    Jim, I'll tell you my most recent story out of that office, I lost a lot of respect for them

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    Half as many of us and five times as many of them, and they are complaining of overwork. I hear the pay is quite good.
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  7. #7
    G44's Avatar
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    Its time to name names, make these guy's famous.

    Jim, you are a good man, it must have been heartbreaking not to be able to give some of these kids rides.
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  8. #8
    kestrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouter View Post
    I really havent had much interaction directly with the FAA, other than repeatedly yanking my chain 4 times kicking back a registration for a plane owned by an LLC, It was no fun at that time
    This past weekend a different story. I and several others on this site have been involved with Wings for Wishes, a fundraising event planned out by a 15 year old boy. He has been working thru all the channels for a year and a half coordinating the event. It was both a fundraiser and to commemerate the 80th anniversary of Charles Lindberg landing on the beach at Old Orchard Beach in Maine

    www.wingsforwishes.org
    That link goes to a web site that seems unrelated...

    <goes searching...>

    Try these:
    https://wings4wishes.org/
    https://www.facebook.com/wings4wishesmaine/
    --
    Bearhawk, RV-4

  9. #9
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    You are a good man Jim. I am at a loss as to how the FAA thinks that this event was any of their business. Landing areas are controlled by the State Aeronautics commissions. The property is owned by the town which gave permission to use it. It was a private event with a self imposed limitation on the number of planes allowed. There was a snow fence in place to keep the general public separated from the airplane landing area. Any rides offered to the kids would have been a not a for hire operation. None of these functions is any of the FAA's business. At least you were able to get half the number of planes that you had planned. This was a good lesson for that energetic 15 year old boy. He has learned what a bureaucracy is.

  10. #10

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    I agree with all of that except for the "giving rides" part. Here is the little known and mostly ignored rule (14 CFR sect 91.146):

    (b) Passenger carrying flights for the benefit of a charitable, nonprofit, or community event identified in paragraph (c) of this section are not subject to the certification requirements of part 119 or the drug and alcohol testing requirements in part 120 of this chapter, provided the following conditions are satisfied and the limitations in paragraphs (c) and (d) are not exceeded:
    (1) The flight is nonstop and begins and ends at the same airportand is conducted within a 25-statute mile radius of that airport;
    (2) The flight is conducted from a public airport that is adequate for the airplane or helicopter used, or from another location the FAA approves for the operation;

  11. #11

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    Welcome to Aviation!..........do I have some stories like that for you!........don't forget they're here to help you.
    If you get lost while flying, don't try hail a cop. Pick up the first railroad you find and hug it until you get somewhere.
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  12. #12
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    This guy?


    Sent from my imitation glass cockpit using SuperCub.Org mobile app

  13. #13
    Scouter's Avatar
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    Yep

  14. #14

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    So as Bob pointed out the regulation above, what was the reason for the FAA's action. From your account this was a planned and set up event and then the FSDO contacted the organizers and said no.

  15. #15

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    When dealing with a bureaucracy like the FAA I have a few rules that seem to work:

    When you contact them, make it seem like they are the first people you have talked to about your plans. They feel important that way

    Ask for the moon, then scale it back it back to make yourself look reasonable

    If it is charitable thing, book them a heavy guilt trip. I mean hang "Scrooge and Marley" signs on them. You say things like "Oh the kids will be so disappointed" and have the kids already writing or drawing pictures of their dreams. Give the powers to be a chance to look magnanimous.

    Steer your conversations so things look like their idea. It works wonders when they think they thought of it.

    As a last resort, especially when you are dealing for your carrier or operation say something like, "I will have to brief in my replacement on this." Then the inspector will inquire and you say something like, "Well they will most likely replace me when I can't get the spec they are looking for done, that is really all I am here for." Then they start thinking, "I'm going to have more work if I don't approve this because I will have to do an approval ride for a new check airman. IOW, show them they will have a lot more work if they don't approve it.

    We guys and especially pilots are always direct, to the point and by the book. Think how your wife manipulates you into doing something you don't want to do, and use those tactics.




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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeeBee View Post
    Think how your wife manipulates you into doing something you don't want to do, and use those tactics.

    Uhmmm, I'm not sure about that....
    After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF !

  17. #17

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    Living Up to the motto: " we're not happy until you're not happy "
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  18. #18
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Or "My Senator who is planning to be there will be very disappointed. I'm sure that she will remember this since she is on the committee which is negotiating the new FAA budget."
    N1PA
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by logjam View Post
    Living Up to the motto: " we're not happy until you're not happy "
    this is why FAA is sometimes called the Folks Against Aviation.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!
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  20. #20
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    Finally some decent video showing up

    https://m.facebook.com/story/graphql...kyNzU2MTkzOTQw

    The feds even shut down the drones after awhile

    Jim
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  21. #21
    G44's Avatar
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    Highest unlit obstacle to aviation is the local FSDO.
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  22. #22
    aktango58's Avatar
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    6,000 people watching is a problem?

    Guess OshKosh will no longer be held.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

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