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Experimental constant speed prop governor install

pfjay52

pfjay52

FRIEND
Port Lincoln, South Australia
i am building an Experimental Javron Cub 'Downunder'. i have a nice, almost zero time Lycoming A1A IO-360 that i have sitting on the engine mounts now. i want to install a Whirlwind Aviation 80" 210 Constant Speed prop, and i'm having issues with the governor fitting. my only option is the accessory mount on the back of the engine and i have just under 6" clearance between the firewall and the back of the engine. that is enough to install the 'Jihostroj' governor that Whirlwind sell. But i didn't take into account the drive adaptor (Lycoming #75153) that attaches the governor to the back of the engine, which in itself is about 2" deep. that rules out using a governor over 4" in length. in the parts manual it shows a gear drive that looks like it will mount the governor direct onto the case without the adapter (Lycoming #LW12914)
anyone here have any thoughts on this? i see MT make an electric governor/prop control, i wonder if anyone has any experience with these? are there any other ways of driving the governor, or other proven options.
thanks in advance.
cheers,
Phil
 
that's an option i have considered, but not actually looked at closely. there is bracing behind the area, and i'd just about guarantee it will foul anything i try to fabricate. and somehow i'd have to have a cable and actuating arm back in the recess? i'll have a closer look in the morning.
thanks,
Phil
 
Phil,
Assemble the engine on the mount with the governor to the airplane without the firewall being in place. Notice how much clearance there is from the fuselage tubing. If you have enough room for the governor to move around when the engine is shaking without touching the steel tubing, cut a hole in the firewall large enough. Then build a steel box to extend that portion of the firewall into the cockpit. Don't forget to allow for the push/pull control.

This is the method which is used on an STCd installation.

My fuselage made by Javron has this tubing in the first bay forming an "X". Piper had this tubing in the shape of a "V". The "V" shape allows room for the governor. The "X" shape does not.
 
Thanks skywagon,
on the face of it, i'm out of luck 'cos i have a Javron kit, but the only way to know is to try it. i'll be in the hangar first thing in the morning to do as you suggest.
cheers,
Phil
 
Last edited:
pfjay52 said:
i see MT make an electric governor/prop control, i wonder if anyone has any experience with these? are there any other ways of driving the governor, or other proven options.
Click to expand...
Phil,
It appears that the MT electric control is nothing more than an adapter on the head of the governor for the electric function. This would still require a hole in the firewall.
https://www.mt-propeller.com/en/entw/pro_gov.htm
Now if someone had an electric motor gearbox unit to mount directly on the prop to move the blades????? The old Curtis-electric props of WW2 worked in this manner.
 
My SQ2 fuselage was built by Javron, when I installed a whirlwind constant speed I was able to make a box with enough clearance for the governor. The only problem was having to swing the engine out about 6" on one side to work it. I also made the lid of the box removeable to adjust the governor linkage.
Steve
 
Thanks guys,
i knew i'd get some good answers here. looks like i'll be removing the firewall today and doing some experimenting. but isn't that what building an 'experimental' aircraft is all about?
Mike , do you have something in mind for an actuator/linkage to actually operate the governor? i have my electronics guy coming over to do some work tomorrow i'll run it past him, plus i have a friend who is very good with industrial controls, he might be the one to ask.
i can see myself building a box while Jake is doing his wiring thing.
the big issue in this scenario is the adapter pad on the back of the engine, if that could be removed and the governor attached direct to the back of the engine, all my problems would be solved. but from the answers here it looks like people way more clever than me have looked at it and decided to build a box!
cheers,
Phil
 
Phil, That adapter drive is actually about 4-5". It sticks out of the engine by 2" but the rest of it goes inside with the gear on the end which connects to the gears in the accessory case. I've studied it and can see no way to shorten it without a major redesign. Part of it is to route engine oil to the governor where the pressure is boosted to run the prop. Then there is also a return port to dump the oil back into the sump. A lot happens in that adapter.

I think that Mike is talking about a separate electric powered hydraulic pump as a substitute for the governor.
 
thanks skywagon,
yes, i have the whole assembly in a zip loc bag on the bench and separated the old governor yesterday. the separate electric driven hydraulic pump is something that crossed my mind when i first came up against the problem. looks like building a box is the easiest way to go and i'm about to head for the hangar and play! i have a damaged Jihostroj governor that i can bolt to the pad and swing the motor back to check for clearance. i only ordered the prop/governor last week, so i'm glad i found the issue now and not once i took delivery. at least i haven't been blind sided.
cheers,
Phil
 
Phil,
If you find that the governor will not fit, then you can change your prop order to the ground adjustable version. That's what I have. It is a compromise but still a good performer. OR, you could relocate the tubing in the fuselage.
 
thanks Skywagon,
i went out this morning and did as you suggested. the governor cleared the X brace and looks like it will need a box about 1.625" deep to clear the end. i have marked up the firewall and taking it into my sheet metal guy in the morning. a buddy happened to have two jihostroj governors out of a wreck so i could actually see what i needed to do. my fallback option was to change my order for a GA prop, which was my original idea, but i am happy that i can do something with what i have and make it work. just getting back to Mikes idea of using the Geckodrive, i wonder how that would go driving a Ray Allen Servo to push/pull the governor. i have a Tosten stick grip with a four way hat switch. just sayin' ,that's all. :)
thanks for all the help guys. i'll post photo's when i get it all together.
cheers,
Phil
DSC04711.jpg
 

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pfjay52 said:
...just getting back to Mikes idea of using the Geckodrive, i wonder how that would go driving a Ray Allen Servo to push/pull the governor. ..
cheers,
Phil
Click to expand...

different use of word "servo"... not push pull like you say.... no governor in this scenario, this IS the governor

it's just a motor driver that chases a result... make oil pump/motor spin faster or slower trying to keep at whatever target point(s)...

what it would take to make the control to define that target?? haven't thought much about that, but you can read actual engine RPMs from mag P-leads, then have a control of some sort that you adjust to set wanted RPMs at servo driver...???
 
Sheet metal man? Come on, be an airplane builder. Go down to the kitchen pan store and get a small stainless mixing bowl. Rivet it to your fire wall with some stainless rivets.
 
yeah, i've seen what happens when you let loose a bunch of airplane builders, here's one result.
DSC00843.jpg
ornithopter.jpgand another
 

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pfjay52 said:
i am building an Experimental Javron Cub 'Downunder'. i have a nice, almost zero time Lycoming A1A IO-360 that i have sitting on the engine mounts now. i want to install a Whirlwind Aviation 80" 210 Constant Speed prop, and i'm having issues with the governor fitting. my only option is the accessory mount on the back of the engine and i have just under 6" clearance between the firewall and the back of the engine. that is enough to install the 'Jihostroj' governor that Whirlwind sell. But i didn't take into account the drive adaptor (Lycoming #75153) that attaches the governor to the back of the engine, which in itself is about 2" deep. that rules out using a governor over 4" in length. in the parts manual it shows a gear drive that looks like it will mount the governor direct onto the case without the adapter (Lycoming #LW12914)
anyone here have any thoughts on this? i see MT make an electric governor/prop control, i wonder if anyone has any experience with these? are there any other ways of driving the governor, or other proven options.
thanks in advance.
cheers,
Phil
Click to expand...

One option, likely not preferred, would be to go with an Electric MT prop. It uses a set of slip rings and brushes attached to the ring gear to supply power to the prop and an electric motor in the prop hub to adjust the pitch. The control is panel mounted and can be configured as controllable pitch or constant speed. (google MT P-120-U for a picture of the controller). No governor to mount to the back of the engine. The down side is that the electric prop is slow to respond as compared to a hydraulic prop, so may not be ideal for a SuperCub.

-Cub Builder
 
Just cut a hole and make it fit

The Whirlwind (Ohio) CS prop is a game changer for my BCSC.

I built a box to cover the hole on the inside. Pretty easy to do.

AKT

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I have a buddy that covered there hole up with a dog dish

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IMG_20170705_143716.jpgIMG_20170705_143822.jpgHere is the box from the Professional Pilots Inc. STC'd installation on a certified PA-18.
 

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Thanks a bunch guys,
ive always found this site to be worth the admission price! Love the dog bowl��������
Cheers,
Phil
 
Thanks AKT,
Pmags? One or two? What's that billet adapter you have in front of your governor? Battery box between the rudder pedals! Earth X battery? What power plant are you using?
cheers,
Phil
 
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