Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 57

Thread: Wing recover

  1. #1
    jimboflying's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    475
    Post Thanks / Like

    Wing recover

    What items are normally checked or replaced when doing a wing recover?

  2. #2
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    chugiak AK
    Posts
    9,902
    Post Thanks / Like
    normally??

    or what I do?
    1. all steel parts removed sent for blasting, inspection, powder coating
    2. all hardware removed is replaced
    3. wing measured & trammed
    4. ribs replaced as needed
    5. hanger blocks replaced or repaired as needed
    6. new leading edge from Univair blanks since it's already removed(and is less time/$$ then cleaning and bondoing old junk..
    7. maybe replace trailing edge if bad shape...
    8. maybe prime leading and trailing edge to help prevent corrosion..
    9. hang and align flaps and ailerons with wing in proper twisted position
    10. replace tip wood bow
    11. replace lighting wires
    12. add Atlee Hurricane tie downs if not already installed
    13. extend top leading edge back 14"~ if wanted..


    thats the pre fabric 2 minute thoughts...

  3. #3
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Graham, TX
    Posts
    18,132
    Post Thanks / Like
    Here is a list in Google Drive that my daughter and I came up with. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...t?usp=drivesdk
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
    Thanks tedwaltman1, flybynite, mike mcs repair, txpacer, Wag2+2 thanked for this post
    Likes Hardtailjohn, WanaBNACub, Philly5G liked this post

  4. #4
    cubpilot2's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Anchorage Alaska
    Posts
    710
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    normally??

    or what I do?
    1. all steel parts removed sent for blasting, inspection, powder coating
    2. all hardware removed is replaced
    3. wing measured & trammed
    4. ribs replaced as needed
    5. hanger blocks replaced or repaired as needed
    6. new leading edge from Univair blanks since it's already removed(and is less time/$$ then cleaning and bondoing old junk..
    7. maybe replace trailing edge if bad shape...
    8. maybe prime leading and trailing edge to help prevent corrosion..
    9. hang and align flaps and ailerons with wing in proper twisted position
    10. replace tip wood bow
    11. replace lighting wires
    12. add Atlee Hurricane tie downs if not already installed
    13. extend top leading edge back 14"~ if wanted..


    thats the pre fabric 2 minute thoughts...
    Mike can you still get the leading edge extension approved? I was led to believe that they wouldn't allow it anymore without engineering. (This has been several years ago now).
    My 180 cub has it and I sure like it!
    Ed

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    4,106
    Post Thanks / Like
    I think Mike's enjoying the freedom of the experimental category. I know I am!

    Before.





    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app
    Last edited by stewartb; 06-29-2017 at 01:28 PM.
    Thanks jimboflying, flylowslow thanked for this post

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    4,106
    Post Thanks / Like
    After.




    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app

  7. #7
    skukum12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    The Last Frontier
    Posts
    1,055
    Post Thanks / Like
    If you can get the leading edge extension approved, do it! It's worth it's weight in platinum!
    "Always looking up"
    Likes mike mcs repair liked this post

  8. #8
    cubdriver2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    upstate NY
    Posts
    9,521
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by skukum12 View Post
    If you can get the leading edge extension approved, do it! It's worth it's weight in platinum!
    Why?

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"
    Thanks 62E thanked for this post

  9. #9
    aktango58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    18AA
    Posts
    8,907
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    After.




    Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org mobile app
    Super nice!
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
    Likes WanaBNACub liked this post

  10. #10
    skukum12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    The Last Frontier
    Posts
    1,055
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    Why?

    Glenn
    No scalloping. It creates a uniform airfoil all along the wing.
    "Always looking up"
    Likes DENNY, mike mcs repair liked this post

  11. #11
    skukum12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    The Last Frontier
    Posts
    1,055
    Post Thanks / Like
    No scalloping!IMG_4236.JPG
    "Always looking up"
    Likes mike mcs repair, 180Marty liked this post

  12. #12
    cubpilot2's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Anchorage Alaska
    Posts
    710
    Post Thanks / Like
    I had a friend that did one of the leading edge extensions years ago. Prior to the work he had done some slow flight competition alongside a buddy of his and they were about at the same speeds.
    After the change he could stay in the air when his buddy was stalled out. This was prior to using VGs.
    He said that it made a big improvement in flight characteristics. Both had stock round tip wings.

    I did several mods to mine plus VGs at the same time so it was hard to say what helped the most but lift was better. The changes caused the tail to not be as effective as it used to be. I then added the VGs to the stabilizer which helped.

    Another side benefit is that when the Ravens use my cub to have lunch on they don't poke holes through the fabric anymore....

    Stewart: I think that I am about ready to go the Exp. Route myself.
    Ed

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    4,106
    Post Thanks / Like
    I like it for sweeping wings. The area where metal is added is where snow gets crusty and stubborn. It's the place where the ribs are the most vulnerable to damage from a broom. It's also the place on the plane where I have the most leverage and the least control of my broom. I appreciate the added reinforcement.

    Here's a good old thread that discussed wing covering. It's worth the read.
    http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...pson-Wing-Help
    Last edited by stewartb; 06-30-2017 at 10:40 AM.
    Thanks cubpilot2 thanked for this post
    Likes skukum12, akwing liked this post

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    4,106
    Post Thanks / Like
    Lots of exp Cub stuff happens that doesn't surface here. I know of guys who've tried bands of pre-shrunk fabric between ribs and other guys who mimicked that using 3-4" carbon fiber strips to bridge between ribs. From what I heard neither proved worth the effort. I believe 8856Charlie has customers who've used carbon sheet to extend the leading edges like the aluminum in the picture. I wonder how that's worked? It seems like lots of guys favor minimizing the fabric scallop.

  15. #15
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Toledo, Wa (KTDO)
    Posts
    3,175
    Post Thanks / Like
    Well, looks like I managed to delete my own post by accident. There was a long thread on this topic in 2009. It referenced this article from NACA.

    Also, this more recent article re whale flippers is interesting, though I don't know if it applies to the scallops on Cub wings.

    In any case, properly conducted tests would be informative. "One good test is worth a thousand expert opinions"
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO
    My SPOT: tinyurl.com/N4328M (case sensitive)

  16. #16

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    4,106
    Post Thanks / Like
    Memories of the whale flipper champ at Birchwood. That brings a smile. That's a very different discussion than scallops between ribs.

    http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...nd-howz-it-fly
    Last edited by stewartb; 06-30-2017 at 07:04 PM.

  17. #17
    cubpilot2's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Anchorage Alaska
    Posts
    710
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    I like it for sweeping wings. The area where metal is added is where snow gets crusty and stubborn. It's the place where the ribs are the most vulnerable to damage from a broom. It's also the place on the plane where I have the most leverage and the least control of my broom. I appreciate the added reinforcement.

    Here's a good old thread that discussed wing covering. It's worth the read.
    http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...pson-Wing-Help


    I had forgotten that old thread and especially the part about the fabric not shrinking equally.

    I checked the polyfiber manual which was last revised a year after the posting and they basically said the same thing about the scollops in the fabric. They suggested the medium weight if you don't want to see them and advised that using the heavy weight fabric with the blanket method would produce scollops.
    Their recommendation was that if you wanted to use the heavy wt. then to consider an envelope which would run the fabric cord wise.

    I have a set of wings that are ready to cover and I think that I'm going to do a bit of sewing.... (Well maybe the wife will)
    I never liked seeing the seams in the wing fabric but.... Oh well. Piper did some of the worst ones. Ive seen as many as 5 splices on one wing; with some only a couple feet apart, and running cockeyed. Piper didn't waste any fabric.
    Ed
    Likes stewartb liked this post

  18. #18
    AkPA/18's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Big Lake Ak
    Posts
    627
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by cubpilot2 View Post

    I did several mods to mine plus VGs at the same time so it was hard to say what helped the most but lift was better. The changes caused the tail to not be as effective as it used to be. I then added the VGs to the stabilizer which helped.

    .
    Watched your cub come out of the north pothole Lake Hood last Friday. Hands down one of the best performing cubs on floats I have seen. Great job Ed!

    Mark
    http://thrustline.com/

    Takeoffs are optional--Landings are mandatory
    Thanks cubpilot2 thanked for this post

  19. #19
    cubpilot2's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Anchorage Alaska
    Posts
    710
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by AkPA/18 View Post
    Watched your cub come out of the north pothole Lake Hood last Friday. Hands down one of the best performing cubs on floats I have seen. Great job Ed!

    Mark
    Its because of the thrust line kit a guy sold me....
    Ed

  20. #20
    jimboflying's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    475
    Post Thanks / Like
    I am getting PA12 wings with flaps ready for recover. When I removed the leading edges for replacement I found these loose metal parts underneath. They were only attached by tape. Are they supposed to be there?
    IMG_1235.JPG
    When I removed the stock tank I compared the offset of the DCA part that is to the rear of the tank, I noticed that is was quite a bit smaller. It is on this offset that the tank and antichaffe strip sits. Do I have the wrong part? It is also longer than the original part. Any help with these issues would be helpful.
    IMG_1239.JPGIMG_1240.JPGIMG_1242.JPG

  21. #21
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Graham, TX
    Posts
    18,132
    Post Thanks / Like
    That reinforcement under the leading edge was used under 3003 aluminum outboard 3/4 skins. When Piper went to 2024-T3 skins on the Tri-Pacer and Super Cub they eleminated the reinforcement.

    I would call Dakota Cub on the false spar. Might be for their tank installation. Talk to Brian.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  22. #22
    jimboflying's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    475
    Post Thanks / Like
    Steve,
    Thanks for the followup. If I have new Univair leading edges would I leave those reinforcements out?
    Jim

  23. #23
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Graham, TX
    Posts
    18,132
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by jimboflying View Post
    Steve,
    Thanks for the followup. If I have new Univair leading edges would I leave those reinforcements out?
    Jim
    I would and do, thy use .020" 2024-T3 like the later Pipers.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  24. #24
    jimboflying's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    475
    Post Thanks / Like
    The aileron hangers had an external reinforcement on the outside of the trailing edge as well as the internal side. The flap hangers which were added at a later time to add flaps did not have the external reinforcements. Do they also need external reinforcements? This is on an experimental PA12.

  25. #25
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Graham, TX
    Posts
    18,132
    Post Thanks / Like
    The Super Cub has a reinforcement on the inside of the inboard flap hinge, that is all. Do you have the Northland Drawing CD. Lots of good information there.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  26. #26
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    chugiak AK
    Posts
    9,902
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by jimboflying View Post
    The aileron hangers had an external reinforcement on the outside of the trailing edge as well as the internal side. The flap hangers which were added at a later time to add flaps did not have the external reinforcements. Do they also need external reinforcements? This is on an experimental PA12.
    you need the external reinforcement with the Day and Night flap STC... the INTERNAL ones are not required/superseded(Aileron also) I throw them away, they are REPLACED by that external one, per the AD on -12 Aileron hangers...

    http://www.univair.com/content/PIP_SB0107.pdf

  27. #27
    jimboflying's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    475
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mike,

    Thanks for the help as usual. Where would I get the external ones for the flaps?

  28. #28
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    chugiak AK
    Posts
    9,902
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by jimboflying View Post
    Mike,

    Thanks for the help as usual. Where would I get the external ones for the flaps?
    same as aileron ones... Univair

  29. #29
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    chugiak AK
    Posts
    9,902
    Post Thanks / Like

  30. #30
    cubpilot2's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Anchorage Alaska
    Posts
    710
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by cubpilot2 View Post
    I had forgotten that old thread and especially the part about the fabric not shrinking equally.

    I checked the polyfiber manual which was last revised a year after the posting and they basically said the same thing about the scollops in the fabric. They suggested the medium weight if you don't want to see them and advised that using the heavy weight fabric with the blanket method would produce scollops.
    Their recommendation was that if you wanted to use the heavy wt. then to consider an envelope which would run the fabric cord wise.

    I have a set of wings that are ready to cover and I think that I'm going to do a bit of sewing.... (Well maybe the wife will)
    I never liked seeing the seams in the wing fabric but.... Oh well. Piper did some of the worst ones. Ive seen as many as 5 splices on one wing; with some only a couple feet apart, and running cockeyed. Piper didn't waste any fabric.

    Update: So I did just that... Using the heavy weight fabric we sewed the three strips together and using the old methods of attachments at the trailing edge. The difference in scalloping between the blanket method and this was amazing!
    The photos below is of a cub covered with the heavy fabric in the blanket method (glued span size to the leading edge.) The scallops are 5/8 or more between ribs depending on the rib spacing.

    With the "envelope type" method on the wing that I just finished in silver, the scallops are 3/32 to 1/8 inch deep as measured with a strait edge over the cap strip reinforcing tapes.

    The Red wing is my 180 cub with the 12 inch L.E. extension.

    I am no aeronautical engineer but IMO when you allow the vertical cross section of the airfoil to be reduced this way; that there has to be some difference in the lift component.

    I would bet that if you did one wing with the blanket method and the other in the envelope; that it would be wing heavy as hell.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Ed

  31. #31
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    chugiak AK
    Posts
    9,902
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by cubpilot2 View Post
    Update: So I did just that... Using the heavy weight fabric we sewed the three strips together and using the old methods of attachments at the trailing edge. The difference in scalloping between the blanket method and this was amazing!
    The photos below is of a cub covered with the heavy fabric in the blanket method (glued span size to the leading edge.) The scallops are 5/8 or more between ribs depending on the rib spacing.

    With the "envelope type" method on the wing that I just finished in silver, the scallops are 3/32 to 1/8 inch deep as measured with a strait edge over the cap strip reinforcing tapes.

    The Red wing is my 180 cub with the 12 inch L.E. extension.

    I am no aeronautical engineer but IMO when you allow the vertical cross section of the airfoil to be reduced this way; that there has to be some difference in the lift component.

    I would bet that if you did one wing with the blanket method and the other in the envelope; that it would be wing heavy as hell.
    no...

    It all has to do with the order of which direction you shrink it.....

  32. #32

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    King Salmon, AK
    Posts
    64
    Post Thanks / Like
    The end shape during flight is totally different anyway, as the fabric balloons up instead of being stretched down. The tighter fabric may end up shaped more like the ribs than the other one.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Likes Dave Calkins liked this post

  33. #33
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    8,616
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    no...

    It all has to do with the order of which direction you shrink it.....
    Correct, place the iron on the ribs first to shrink the fabric span wise. This will pull the span wise fibers up to the level of the ribs. Then shrink between the ribs. If you shrink between the ribs before the fabric is pulled up to the rib caps it WILL always have a belly in it.
    N1PA
    Likes mike mcs repair liked this post

  34. #34
    cubpilot2's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Anchorage Alaska
    Posts
    710
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Correct, place the iron on the ribs first to shrink the fabric span wise. This will pull the span wise fibers up to the level of the ribs. Then shrink between the ribs. If you shrink between the ribs before the fabric is pulled up to the rib caps it WILL always have a belly in it.
    That is what I always thought.
    Keep in mind that this is the "heavy weight fabric; and medium does not react the same. I was involved in all of the wings in the photos and they were all ironed using the same basic technique.
    The Polyfiber manual even corroborates what I experienced. They say that you Will get the scallops with the heavy fabric! I just never thought that it could be to that extent, and that it is preventable.

    I have aireal photos of the Blue cub and the wing fabric does not balloon up. The shape is still there.
    The airplane is also a good performer and flies nice.

    In the old thread mentioned above the guy built a 2 x 2 frame of pvc pipe as it is flexible enough to show the stresses; and covered it with the heavy fabric.
    When shrunk the frame distorted nearly an inch in one direction and hardly any on the other. It does not pull evenly.

    IMHO either use medium wt fabric or change your install methods to avoid the scalloped look. After seeing how tight and flat this turned out; I am no longer seeing as much desire for the extended leading edge.
    Ed

  35. #35
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Graham, TX
    Posts
    18,132
    Post Thanks / Like
    It also depends on which generation of fabric you have. I have seen a lot of differences in the shrinking characteristics with the runs of fabric over the years.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  36. #36
    cubpilot2's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Anchorage Alaska
    Posts
    710
    Post Thanks / Like
    I went back and re-read this old post.
    Check out the testing that was done. It explains it very well and my results were exactly what he achieved.

    http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...pson-Wing-Help
    Ed

  37. #37
    cruiser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    South Glens Falls, NY
    Posts
    1,418
    Post Thanks / Like
    The 1991 Stits manual states the thread count at that time was equal in both directions. I would guess that would have a big influence on how the fabric reacts to heat.

  38. #38
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    8,616
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by cruiser View Post
    The 1991 Stits manual states the thread count at that time was equal in both directions. I would guess that would have a big influence on how the fabric reacts to heat.
    That is correct, but if you start shrinking in the bay between the ribs the chordwise fabric will pull down between the leading and trailing edges before the spanwise threads holding them down creating the scallop.
    N1PA

  39. #39

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Fargo
    Posts
    630
    Post Thanks / Like
    Medium-5 is 63x75 thread count and heavy-4 is 144x57 these are the current products. Just messured the scallop on my plane with medium-5 covered in the blanket meathod and shrunk over the ribs 1st and it's 1/4" to 5/16" max and this is one of the best flying Cubs I've build or flown. Also messured a factory original 1976 cub I've got in the shop that has the original heavy ceconite 101 installed by the sock meathod and it's identical at 1/4" to 5/16".


    Attachment 32716

  40. #40

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    STL
    Posts
    249
    Post Thanks / Like
    I'm getting close to placing my wing order from Javron and Jay is admandtley against the wing leading edge extension but I'm getting mixed reviews. Have you guys who have done it totally happy with it? Worth the weight?
    Blue Skies,
    Denny
    If you get lost while flying, don't try hail a cop. Pick up the first railroad you find and hug it until you get somewhere.

Similar Threads

  1. landing recover
    By skysigns in forum Cafe Supercub
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-16-2016, 05:38 AM
  2. Hrs to recover?
    By larrym in forum Super Cub Sick Bay
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-24-2012, 10:18 PM
  3. Repaint or recover
    By chilecubdriver in forum Cafe Supercub
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 03-22-2011, 10:22 AM
  4. Recover and Repairs
    By supercubc37 in forum Modifications
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-13-2002, 04:12 PM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •