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Thread: Airwolf oil chiller

  1. #1
    Cubuser1099's Avatar
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    Airwolf oil chiller

    Has anyone installed the Airwolf oil chiller? It's basically a set of cooling fins for your oil filter. I'm running a C85 and at oat above 85f my oil temp gets up near the red line and pressure is nearing the bottom of the green. Just thinking this might take the edge off a bit.


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    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Yes two years ago on my C-85 Stroker in a Taylorcraft. The effectiveness was in the 10's of degrees cooler. Worth the cost and effort. Not half the temp but lower...on floats below redline now versus close to it otherwise.

    The effectiveness probably depends on the location of the oil filter and how much cool or warm air flow it's exposed to. If you have the filter attached to the left rear engine pad with the F&M adapter then try to keep the fins out of the hot blast from the rear cylinder and provide some cooling air to them. Putting a 2" Y adapter in your heat muff cool air source and ducting it to the filter and fins may be one option in summer. If the filter's remote on the firewall then it should get enough airflow to help, or use a cool air source.

    Gary

  3. #3
    Cubuser1099's Avatar
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    Got a screen now but intending to install the filter adapter and add a flange and blast duct to put the cooling air directly into the fin area. Kinda thought about something similar to the plastic snap on vacuum pump coolers but don't want to add so much stuff as to make it look gaudy and Jerry rigged.


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  4. #4
    Cubuser1099's Avatar
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    Gotta modify that rear baffle anyway. It partially covers the mounting pad as it is.


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    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Suggestion: If you pull intended cooling air from the rear baffle area put the exit hole as high as possible away from the rear cylinder. My mechanic put in a hole close to the cylinder top and it didn't cool as well as no hole with the filter on the F&M Adapter. Better to take the air from in front of the engine or on top of the cowl with a NACA flush vent or similar.

    Tempest oil filter adapters: http://www.tempestplus.com/Products/...sAdapters.aspx

    Oil Chiller gizmo: http://www.airwolf.com/aw/products/oil-filter-chiller

    It drops temps 10-20 deg indicated depending on OAT. I take it off in the winter below 40F.

    Gary
    Last edited by BC12D-4-85; 05-18-2017 at 11:37 PM.

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    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Is this the type of plane that you have?


    That horizontal oval opening is supposed to direct cool air to the lower part of the crankcase. Some airplanes like the Taylorcraft have a baffle similar to a tray attached to the bottom of the engine with the aft end directing air flow over the kidney oil sump for cooling purposes. Do you have a similar setup? If not perhaps you should investigate something similar.
    N1PA

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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Had a friend who installed the lower duct that runs under the crankcase and directs air to sump on his 85 hp TCart but still ran warmer that he liked. Put the small cooler that Steve's Aircraft STC'd and he is a happy camper.
    Steve Pierce

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  8. #8
    Cubuser1099's Avatar
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    Sorry should've given all this info. 7EC champion. 85 hp. I do have the tray underneath the engine however it doesn't have the dome shaped piece around the oil sump like the Cessna 140. Have replaced and repaired all the baffling and it is as the drawings show. When flying at ambient temps above 85f oil temp climbs slowly to around 215 after about 20 minutes of flying. With a rear seat adult it will go to the redline and pressure will drop to around 18 psi. The temp doesn't worry me as much as much as the low pressure. At around the 215 mark the pressure is around 20-21. Cylinder head temperature doesn't run over 300f. Usually runs around 250-275.
    Cold weather with a heavy rear seat passenger and all is well.


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  9. #9
    Cubuser1099's Avatar
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    From what I see on the site steves oil cooler is not currently available.


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    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubuser1099 View Post
    Sorry should've given all this info. 7EC champion. 85 hp. I do have the tray underneath the engine however it doesn't have the dome shaped piece around the oil sump like the Cessna 140. Have replaced and repaired all the baffling and it is as the drawings show. When flying at ambient temps above 85f oil temp climbs slowly to around 215 after about 20 minutes of flying. With a rear seat adult it will go to the redline and pressure will drop to around 18 psi. The temp doesn't worry me as much as much as the low pressure. At around the 215 mark the pressure is around 20-21. Cylinder head temperature doesn't run over 300f. Usually runs around 250-275.
    Cold weather with a heavy rear seat passenger and all is well.


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    How big is the lip in the bottom cowl? You could experiment with a bigger lip taped on?

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  11. #11
    Steve's Aircraft (Brian)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubuser1099 View Post
    From what I see on the site steves oil cooler is not currently available.


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    This is true... After the owner of F&M passed we stopped production since most of our STC sales included the sale of an oil filter adapter... We have been contemplating starting it back up again but are hesitant to spend the large amount of coin for the quantity needed to actually make something off of them when we sell... Have also thought about selling off just that particular STC and keeping our other STC's...

    Brian.

  12. #12
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Here's some oil temp/pressure thoughts from a non-A&P owner. In two C-85's and a C-90 with low to mid-time engines I've seen 200-220 oil temps in summer on floats (60-80F for us) and pressures 30 psi or more in flight. Floats can slow the plane from little to up to 5 mph vs conventional gear. Lower pressures are noted at idle but that's expected.

    That's using 50W or 20W-50 oil. The 20W-50 will drop pressure up to about 5 psi as it reaches time for changeout vs straight weight I assume from shearing of the viscosity improvers they add to the 20W base to maintain 50W equivalent viscosity at 200+.

    A lip on the lower cowl exit is essential on some float configurations but the OP's CHT seem reasonable if not a bit lower than I see. Adding a 1-2" cowl lip offset down 30-45* might help oil cooling. It's a gray art experiment. Tinnerman type nuts or clips make seasonal removal easy.

    Time and wear history of the OP's engine should be considered in the scheme of things. Blowby of combustion gasses past worn exhaust valve guides and rings can increase oil temps over new in all engines. Quick darkening of the oil and breather venting are typical symptoms in my experience.

    Rather than speculate I'll leave the possible cause and effect of oil temp vs pressure to the experienced engine folks here.

    Gary
    Last edited by BC12D-4-85; 05-19-2017 at 11:53 AM.
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    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubuser1099 View Post
    Has anyone installed the Airwolf oil chiller? It's basically a set of cooling fins for your oil filter. ....
    Years ago, my old 145hp C170 ran high oil temps in the summertime. I installed something very similar to this "oil chiller" on the spin-on filter,
    but I didn't notice much if any improvement with it installed. FWIW mine came from Napa or JC Whitney and cost a helluva lot less than the $150 Airwolf wants for theirs:

    http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalo...oilchiller.php
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  14. #14
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    They were developed for auto and motorcycle applications many years ago...JC Whitney and I go back 57 yrs BTW. For any radiator to function it takes a positive flow of cool air over the assembly. Cars and bikes provide that when in motion. As noted I see between 10 and 20* drop in indicated oil temps but no more.

    I'd address the high oil temp and low pressure first before I'd add a JC Whitney gadget and expect a magic fix. If the engine's normal then any cooling may help.

    Gary

  15. #15
    Cubuser1099's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure I'm just putting a band aid on a leaking wound but I'm hoping to get a few more years out of this engine. When I overhaul I plan to drop in the c85 crank or find a c90 and overhaul it while I can still fly. That would put it back to type cert configuration.


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  16. #16
    Cubuser1099's Avatar
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    I suspect some oil pressure leakage internally. The small continentals are notorious for that. However it's a low time 300ish hour engine. Way over on calendar time however I have had a cylinder off and see no corrosion problem.
    20deg drop when loaded would put me in the 190-200 range where the pressure is fine. I'd be happy with that. I'm probably gonna pull the trigger on this I can't see any reason not to put the oil filter adapter on anyhow. And the little fin thing is a bit Jc Whitney-ish I agree.


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  17. #17
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Life's the greatest experiment so why not do some here?

    Your preferred oil is? Try the heaviest single weight consistent with your temps vs multi vis to minimize internal leakage?
    The filter by itself may slightly cool the engine oil...it does on Harley's when remoted. See what that does to temps?
    The fins will add cooling if subject to airflow. See how much and evaluate?

    My experience with an earlier fresh C-90 in a PA-11 versus my current C-85 Stroker in the Taylorcraft is the latter is at least an equivalent as far as performance. In my case the latter turns the same M76AK-2-40 prop about 120 static more. Some is the engine and the rest is better intake and exhaust.

    Gary

  18. #18
    Cubuser1099's Avatar
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    Which intake and exhaust?


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  19. #19
    Cubuser1099's Avatar
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    Right now I'm swinging a metal Mac 1A90CM7142 prop 2350 static and climb it does ok. Running Phillips X/C 20W50 and a quart of FAA approved oil pressure improver during warm months.


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  20. #20
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    I turn my 74-40 prop described above at 2440 at 500' MSL on a pretty standard day. Oil's good that's what I use/try Shell 50W some day and see if anything changes.

    Intake: Donaldson P10-7150 air filter better flow than Brackett (http://donaldsonaerospace-defense.co...dfs/007217.pdf) and new rebuilt tight air box. Exhaust: Cessna 150 dual exhaust cans with stack extensions. That's versus a slightly more restrictive Brackett air filter on rebuilt box and Piper's PA-11 exhaust. I like mufflers that flow in one direction and not fed from both ends to a third outlet.

    Gary

  21. #21
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubuser1099 View Post
    .... and a quart of FAA approved oil pressure improver during warm months.
    ?? 90w gear oil ??
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  22. #22
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Here's a story. The previous owner ( a smart good mechanic) of my plane had this similar oil overheating/low pressure problem and finally fixed it by overhauling the engine. Didn't get all the details but words like crankshaft and bearings were used. Might have to log in for free to view that thread number:

    http://www.j3-cub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19547

    I had the engine overhauled and stroked with new internal parts and cylinders when I got it.

    When the engine starts talking to you I start listening.

    Gary
    Last edited by BC12D-4-85; 05-20-2017 at 12:34 PM.

  23. #23
    Cubuser1099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    ?? 90w gear oil ??
    Lucas


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  24. #24
    Cubuser1099's Avatar
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    Airwolf oil chiller

    That is FAA approved right?
    Ahhhem (minor alteration)


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  25. #25
    Cubuser1099's Avatar
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    Airwolf oil chiller

    So today I really worked it hard. Put about 5.5 on the tach loaded with a passenger and tools made a cross country trip to rescue a broken Rotax (blown turbo). About 90 nm out and back oat on the ground was 90 or so. Cruising at about 2500-3000 (ft not rpm). Oil temperature ran about 200 deg and pressure ran 30-34 psi. All was good. Landed for fuel and the short leg home. Lower altitude and higher oat 90 plus. Temp climbed just to red line but the pressure held in. 31-32 just at the bottom of the green. I can handle that. And was waay heavy


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    Last edited by Cubuser1099; 05-21-2017 at 10:32 AM.

  26. #26
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    From my link above by the previous owner of my engine...before two subsequent overhauls. The thread goes on for 5 pages after:

    "Hi,
    I have a Taylorcraft, with a Continental C-85-12F that is overheating. It has an enclosed cowling, with tight fitting engine baffling. I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions as to what it might be. The motor was overhauled by B.J. Custom Aircraft in Palmer, AK in 1995 it has 450 SMOH. The lowest compression is 69/80. It is making no metal. The engine is running smooth, it has correct timing for the mags, 28 degrees on one mag and 30 degrees on the other. It has a Sensenich 76AK-2-42 Prop, brand new Marvel Schebler 10-4240-1 Carb, New Baffling, with inter cylinder baffling, Brand new accurate Oil Temp Gauge, lower lip on the bottom cowling that extends downward approx. 2". During test flights the temperature rose as high as 250 degrees on a 55 degree Alaskan Day, and the airplane only went to 2150-2200 RPM static on the ground and only went to 2200 RPM on the takeoff roll. As a byproduct of this the oil pressure dropped as low as 20 pounds. I have tried running different types of oil thinking that it could play some role in this problem, only to find that it makes no difference. I am completely lost as to the what the problem might be. It seems as if it should have plenty of cooling getting to the engine, but it is not he case. I am up for any ideas before I split the case to see if it is something inside the motor."

    Gary

  27. #27
    Cubuser1099's Avatar
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    Yep that's about right but mine doesn't get that hot. Never have I seen it get over the redline and seldom get to it just awful close a few times but the minor alteration to the oil increased the pressure a solid 8 lb and lowered the temp nearly 10


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  28. #28

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    I thought C85 oil pressure should be 30 to 35 psi at cruise which is 2400 rpm. 21-22 is not the bottom of the green. I think you still have a problem. I would not be comfortable flying behind that engine. jrh
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  29. #29
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Overhaul Manual specs 30-60 psi for cruising/10 at idle. Not my expertise to suggest what lower than 30 would mean for continued airworthiness. Seems like lots of Cirrus planes with chutes using them these days.

    Gary

  30. #30
    Cubuser1099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cubuser1099 View Post
    So today I really worked it hard. Put about 5.5 on the tach loaded with a passenger and tools made a cross country trip to rescue a broken Rotax (blown turbo). About 90 nm out and back oat on the ground was 90 or so. Cruising at about 2500-3000 (ft not rpm). Oil temperature ran about 200 deg and pressure ran 22-24 psi. All was good. Landed for fuel and the short leg home. Lower altitude and higher oat 90 plus. Temp climbed just to red line but the pressure held in. 21-22 just at the bottom of the green. I can handle that. And was waay heavy


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    Edit
    My mistake.
    Where I said 20-21 I should have put 30-31. The green is marked correctly on the gauge I made a mistake last night posting. The only time the pressure drops below 30 is at reduced power settings for approach and at idle and then it rarely drops below 20 at idle.

    I certainly would not continue flying at oil pressures around 20


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