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Icon A 5 Crash

Some folks manage to trip over or fall off a 2x4 but that doesn't make lumber inherently dangerous but some prior training and caution are advised. ICON's website (https://iconaircraft.com) is well written and documented. Same for available transition training (https://iconaircraft.com/flight-center/#already-a-pilot). That would be an excellent idea for any new owner, especially when operating an amphibian subject to different behavior. Their AOA application is a good idea (https://iconaircraft.com/news/safety-a5-angle-of-attack-aoa-development/).

I have no idea why some folks have crashed. Maybe time will reveal their history and level of training and experience.

Gary
 
Don't get me wrong I totally agree. Proper training is a must.

Some folks manage to trip over or fall off a 2x4 but that doesn't make lumber inherently dangerous but some prior training and caution are advised. ICON's website (https://iconaircraft.com) is well written and documented. Same for available transition training (https://iconaircraft.com/flight-center/#already-a-pilot). That would be an excellent idea for any new owner, especially when operating an amphibian subject to different behavior. Their AOA application is a good idea (https://iconaircraft.com/news/safety-a5-angle-of-attack-aoa-development/).

I have no idea why some folks have crashed. Maybe time will reveal their history and level of training and experience.

Gary
 
I wasn't suggesting the comments were inappropriate and apologies if that's what it seemed. I like the ICON concept and apparent thoroughness to their business plan. Owning one at my stage of life isn't an option but I were younger...

Let's hope their build is as safe and fun as claimed.

Gary
 
My understanding in somewhat following Icon since the beginning is that they still have yet to deliver aircraft to actual owners. The last published pullback from production was to re-orient a lower production to bring aircraft to "company flight centers", to further promote, instruct, and possibly deliver from...

(I could go on a lengthy opinionated discussion about their direction, published goals and marketing techniques in an aircraft that doesn't match existing performance levels, but that's a completely different topic)

The submerged Icon in FL was quoted as being a hard landing that then submerged, and the occupants got out okay.

This crash was their first fatal, sadly, and killed their test pilot and lead engineer since 2007, Jon Karkow, (formerly 21 years with Scaled Composites) and a new employee Cagri Sever.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2017/05/icon-a5-fatal-accident-occurred-may-08.html
 
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Jon Krakow. A loss not only to family, friends and coworkers but to aviation in general. I hope they figure this one out? Would seem to be a worry, if he can be lost in the airplane anyone may be at risk............?
 
As they are probably not still in any testing stages they may not have had any flight recorders on board, but it would be really really helpful if they did. Tragic event no matter what. Mr. Karkow left his mark with Scaled composites, and some patents with Icon.
 
There's always more to it than initially reported so best to wait and see. The skills and experience of the crew, configuration and weather/water conditions, that kind of stuff.

Still I hope they're eventually successful in producing a plane for sale.

Gary
 
Unfortunate and tragic for Icon and family and friends.

to trust the news reporting is folly

Kathryns and even Avweb cannot be relied upon for fully factual and accurate reports. A recent accident with reports by both sources were sprinkled with misinformation.
 
This crash was their first fatal, sadly, and killed their test pilot and lead engineer since 2007, Jon Karkow, (formerly 21 years with Scaled Composites) and a new employee Cagri Sever.
Not pointing any fingers nor voicing an opinion. Just an observation that the company pilot and engineer were in an airplane before 9:30 in the morning when winds are light or nil, over inaccessible terrain. This sounds as though they were performing a flight test of some nature. Perhaps something at the extreme edge of the flight envelope? Sometimes during these flights bleep happens. That is the life of a test pilot. Been there, done that, survived, turned down a job offer from Piper as a flight test pilot, will not repeat.
 
Truely a tragedy. Aside from the loss of life which must be devastating for their company, families, and friends (may they RIP), this company showed such promise to help a stagnant section of aviation. It will be very hard to recover emotionally and image wise. This is a loss in so many ways.
 
I know the lake, I've boated it a couple times and flown its shorelines and coves many times. I think I have an idea what happened but am not going to comment beyond I don't think there was a problem with the airplane.
 
I saw that report from a few sources, some with additional speculation "from icon". Personally it strikes me odd/unusual, to the point of it's missing some crucial info, such as the flight data they recovered. Fingers are pointing and it smells.
 
I heard from a friend out there last week that they had turned into a dead end cove and tried to turn around?

Glenn
 
Someone familiar with the canyon give us an overview of the landscape? Seems about 500 feet wide at the mouth, 400/300/200 as you progress in, and 3000 feet long. What's the height from water to clear the plateau trees? It was 86 degrees - can't climb up and out?
 
I heard from a friend out there last week that they had turned into a dead end cove and tried to turn around?

Glenn

Yes, I think this is pretty close to what happened. They got into a cove they couldn't climb out of, and didn't recognize it until it was too narrow to turn around in.
 
Thread drift.

So say you make a mistake and turn into the box canyon. Too narrow to stand on a wingtip and pull it around.

What's the option?

With enough energy pull up and do a wingover, hope you manage it well enough to pull out before ground zero?

No one ever makes the call to crash land intentionally straight ahead although it may be the smartest choice?


Sent from my imitation glass cockpit using SuperCub.Org mobile app
 
Thread drift.

So say you make a mistake and turn into the box canyon. Too narrow to stand on a wingtip and pull it around.

What's the option?

With enough energy pull up and do a wingover, hope you manage it well enough to pull out before ground zero?

No one ever makes the call to crash land intentionally straight ahead although it may be the smartest choice?


Sent from my imitation glass cockpit using SuperCub.


Org mobile app

Or land on the water ahead but maybe full of rocks? Some times the simple answer isn't so simple to do when the time comes. Hindsights 20/20. RIP

Glenn
 
" I hope the company recovers."


Why not? If that's the story it wasn't the airplane's fault. Darn shame!
 
I heard from the news - the company evaluated the black box on the crashed aircraft and immediately "ungrounded" the entire fleet. That alone speaks volumes.


It's hard to know it the accident plane was at 50' for 500' and in trouble. I always thing of the box chandelle with flaps and a low pivot airspeed and use all the canyon you can to one side turning towards the other.

I wonder if it the could have flopped onto the water, stopped, plow turned back to out and taken off again. It's hard to think of everything with the walls closing in on you.

A tragedy. An unwanted stain for Icon. Sad for everyone in that icon community. Peace to the families and friends. RIP.
 
I heard from the news - the company evaluated the black box on the crashed aircraft and immediately "ungrounded" the entire fleet. That alone speaks volumes.
Unless this was an engineering prototype with some special recording equipment, "Black box"? What small airplanes have flight recorders? Is this a news media invention?
 
The info stated flight recorder. This could be nothing more than an iPad with foreflight, and the track log data from that is exceptional. I assume other software has the same.


Sent from my iPhone using SuperCub.Org
 
Unless this was an engineering prototype with some special recording equipment, "Black box"? What small airplanes have flight recorders? Is this a news media invention?


Its a a selling point or a detractor, but all the Icons will have black boxes and like an airliner, will know the story when something goes wrong. There was a black box on this accident and apparently, according to news sources, they know it wasn't the plane.

i think the black box and REQUIRED company training for buying from Icon, or to the guy who buys it used from you. Maybe there are more unusual, but they've gotten attention with those stipulations.
 
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