skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
The Icon reminds me of this airplane, an Osprey II. A very easy and nice airplane to fly, although a bit heavier with a max gross of 1560 lbs. I demonstrated one at Greenville Maine one year.
Icon A 5 Crash
- Thread starter C-FIJK
- Start date
Iconn was able to get a 250lb increase over the std amphib
lsa limit(1430lb?) by adding the usual droopy cuff LE stuff. The FAA was sooooo impressed they allowed an extra 250lbs. They got the rest of the industry seething but they got the exemption and free publicity for a supposed safety selling point. Now they have a stall/spin on their hands. If any of the target demographic (people who would otherwise be buying motorhomes and jetskiis) are still around, I'd be surprised. They are already put off by the onerous training/blackbox/transfer restrictions .(Is the requirement for a forward looking video cam feeding the box still there?) They are trying to reduce insurance costs (for the company), agonizing to watch such a big project learn the biz on the fly.
The Iconn mgt.team is a mixture of big iron pilots and world class marketers. They said (power operated!) folding wings would be a big feature when the aircraft was first announced years ago. On an LSA. Amphibian. With car interior. Still with all the money and expertise, I had hoped against hope that somehow this project would darken the skies with LSAs, but the fundamentals aren't there. The Brazillian SeaMax is the pick of the litter, it's already possible to build a very nice LSA amphib if you don't try to load it down with things only an ADD American consumer thinks they need.
lsa limit(1430lb?) by adding the usual droopy cuff LE stuff. The FAA was sooooo impressed they allowed an extra 250lbs. They got the rest of the industry seething but they got the exemption and free publicity for a supposed safety selling point. Now they have a stall/spin on their hands. If any of the target demographic (people who would otherwise be buying motorhomes and jetskiis) are still around, I'd be surprised. They are already put off by the onerous training/blackbox/transfer restrictions .(Is the requirement for a forward looking video cam feeding the box still there?) They are trying to reduce insurance costs (for the company), agonizing to watch such a big project learn the biz on the fly.
The Iconn mgt.team is a mixture of big iron pilots and world class marketers. They said (power operated!) folding wings would be a big feature when the aircraft was first announced years ago. On an LSA. Amphibian. With car interior. Still with all the money and expertise, I had hoped against hope that somehow this project would darken the skies with LSAs, but the fundamentals aren't there. The Brazillian SeaMax is the pick of the litter, it's already possible to build a very nice LSA amphib if you don't try to load it down with things only an ADD American consumer thinks they need.
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Farmboy
MEMBER
Middlebury, VT
I've not compared the SeaMax to the SeaRey, but I've spent some time in a SeaRey and it's quite a nice machine. Have you compared these two?
I haven't flown any amphibs, but from years of reading articles and classifieds it seems the SeaRey is slow and heavy, the Rotax 914 turbo is just enough power, some are going to the Viking engine(Honda Fit) for more power. The SeaMax does fine with the std lsa engine, the 912 100hp.
Farmboy
MEMBER
Middlebury, VT
If you get a chance take a ride, you will come away with a different impression. While the 914 is great for continued power at altitude, the 912 is okay. For builders the 912 with the big bore kit would be a definite consideration.
While a few (FEW) have tried the Viking (Honda), it's not a real viable option due to a very hard resell, and lingering company and engine reliability perceptions, (real or not). I've flown the SeaRey 914 and it's a 95-110 cruise depending on power and alt, has good range and performance on/off the water. It would be my first choice in a Seaplane.
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Yeah, Jan has a lot of detractors from his subaru days. But why would people take the chance unless they really needed more power? The published empty weight is 200 lbs more than a SeaMax. The stall is 42 vs 36 for the SeaMax. The Max is sorta new, the Rey is an ancient ultralight-derived craft. The Rey hauls 158sgft around but stalls higher than the 130sqft Max.
Just checked out your facebook vid on landing a SeaRey on ice. Maybe those pilots in hot humid Fla. are feeling the need for more power. There's a guy on Long Island bringing SeaMaxs in from Brazil.
,
Just checked out your facebook vid on landing a SeaRey on ice. Maybe those pilots in hot humid Fla. are feeling the need for more power. There's a guy on Long Island bringing SeaMaxs in from Brazil.
,
Farmboy
MEMBER
Middlebury, VT
I think you're looking at numbers, when you should climb in one and go fly.
Sometimes numbers are just that...ink on paper.
BC12D-4-85
SPONSOR
Fairbanks, AK.
Latest NTSB narrative 8/2017:
https://ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20170508X45426&ntsbno=WPR17FA101&akey=1
https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/...33b8ee35c-68BA0F53-DE89-9EE5-FFE958615A46AD23
From another source at General Aviation News: "NTSB investigators theorize that it is likely the pilot mistakenly thought the canyon he entered was a different canyon that led to the larger, open portion of the lake.
Additionally, it is likely that, once he realized there was no exit from the canyon, he attempted to perform a 180° left turn to exit in the direction from which he entered."
Gary (sadly see Post #19 and others above)
https://ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20170508X45426&ntsbno=WPR17FA101&akey=1
https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/...33b8ee35c-68BA0F53-DE89-9EE5-FFE958615A46AD23
From another source at General Aviation News: "NTSB investigators theorize that it is likely the pilot mistakenly thought the canyon he entered was a different canyon that led to the larger, open portion of the lake.
Additionally, it is likely that, once he realized there was no exit from the canyon, he attempted to perform a 180° left turn to exit in the direction from which he entered."
Gary (sadly see Post #19 and others above)
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Years ago one of our pilots flew into a canyon he thought they could squeeze through to the other valley, nope, wrong canyon. Into the cloud bases when pine trees started flashing by on the left, then the right, then straight ahead. He pulled the power and mushed into the side of the mountain. They all made it out of the Cherokee six OK. It must be really hard to do mentally to commit to a crash landing but done properly...
I don't recomend it but if one ever does get into such a predicament pick a soft spot, it worked for me but your mileage may differ.
BC12D-4-85
SPONSOR
Fairbanks, AK.
We should practice 180's and learn what it safely takes for airspeed, bank angle, power, and wing configuration/flap deflection if equipped. Sometimes it takes turning one way then back the other (270* or less depending on terrain) to make use of the available airspace. Better to know something by experience than having to get it right the first time.
Edit: He apparently tried to correct the route error according to the electronic data. An excerpt from the link in Post #45: "At 9:07:50 PDT, the aircraft increased power and began to climb. The aircraft turned slightly to the east before turning back to the west. The aircraft reached a maximum altitude of 506 feet GPS altitude at 9:08:03 PDT before beginning to descend."
Gary
Edit: He apparently tried to correct the route error according to the electronic data. An excerpt from the link in Post #45: "At 9:07:50 PDT, the aircraft increased power and began to climb. The aircraft turned slightly to the east before turning back to the west. The aircraft reached a maximum altitude of 506 feet GPS altitude at 9:08:03 PDT before beginning to descend."
Gary
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Id be willing to bet that most of the GA community have no idea how much room it takes to execute a successful (or correct) emergency 180. Most ops are performed at altitude with no visual references.
As Gary mentioned, these manouvers should be well rehearsed if you're in the habit of flying in confined terrain.
Knowing your a/c performance capabilities should aid in the already difficult decision to deliberately crash (possibly survivable) vs attempt a failed 180 and nose in (not survivable). Or better still, know when you're getting squeezed and get out while you still have room.
Ive done the straight in thing too, not pretty, but walked away.
Tough decision, but the sooner you commit the better your chances are of surviving.
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BC12D-4-85
SPONSOR
Fairbanks, AK.
I'll let it go with this. Read the Electronic Devices Factual report:
https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/...33b8ee35c-68BA0F53-DE89-9EE5-FFE958615A46AD23
Low, slow, and quite a ways up the wrong tributary.
Did a similar wrong turn once in 1978 flying a loaded Beaver on floats heading south into the Wrangell Mts., AK. from Northway to Rock and Ptarmingan Lakes. By mistake I took the first drainage to the west of the intended Chisana River route. Those were fly by pilotage and chart days and my first trip on floats into that country. Got as far as the canyon head turning SE and realized the terrain was out climbing me and didn't look like the chart. After that correction I practiced turns and climbs (poor rate loaded).
Gary
https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/...33b8ee35c-68BA0F53-DE89-9EE5-FFE958615A46AD23
Low, slow, and quite a ways up the wrong tributary.
Did a similar wrong turn once in 1978 flying a loaded Beaver on floats heading south into the Wrangell Mts., AK. from Northway to Rock and Ptarmingan Lakes. By mistake I took the first drainage to the west of the intended Chisana River route. Those were fly by pilotage and chart days and my first trip on floats into that country. Got as far as the canyon head turning SE and realized the terrain was out climbing me and didn't look like the chart. After that correction I practiced turns and climbs (poor rate loaded).
Gary
Eddie Foy
MEMBER
South Florida
n40ff
Registered User
WV
Oliver said,
"Id be willing to bet that most of the GA community have no idea how much room it takes to execute a successful (or correct) emergency 180. Most ops are performed at altitude with no visual references."
That's the truth. Lots of little private strips in valleys across this area of WV. Better plan ahead and climb straight out until above the ridges. First time I took off out of a small local strip making a normal pattern I was amazed by
how quickly that mountain was almost in my lap......
I'm sure there are many on this forum where tight spaces are the norm but for this flat lander it was a wake-up call.
Jack
"Id be willing to bet that most of the GA community have no idea how much room it takes to execute a successful (or correct) emergency 180. Most ops are performed at altitude with no visual references."
That's the truth. Lots of little private strips in valleys across this area of WV. Better plan ahead and climb straight out until above the ridges. First time I took off out of a small local strip making a normal pattern I was amazed by
how quickly that mountain was almost in my lap......
I'm sure there are many on this forum where tight spaces are the norm but for this flat lander it was a wake-up call.
Jack
