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Thread: Basic Med for DPE's

  1. #1

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    Basic Med for DPE's

    FAR 61. Whatever says a DPE must hold at least a third class. On the FAA web site in the Basic Med FAQ section there is a statement to that effect. So a friend who wished to go Basic Med and continue being a DPE filed a petition for relief from that requirement stating that it was probably an oversight and it makes sense that as long as the DPE was in an airplane covered by the Basic Med rule, the DPE should be good to go.

    He he got a letter back saying there would be no action on his petition because he did not require any relief because certainly, a DPE could operate under Basic Med. I have a copy of that letter but not sure I can attach it but if somebody wants it in email, pm me.

    My friend just wrote to Flight Standards showing them the letter he got from "the other FAA" asking them to correct their position.

    Stay tuned
    Last edited by Richgj3; 04-15-2017 at 04:58 PM.

  2. #2

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    I can email these letters but I can't seem to find a way to post them here or in pm. If you want them or know how to post them here, email me at richgj3 (at) AOL (dot) com. That way I can get them to you directly.

    Rich
    Last edited by Richgj3; 04-15-2017 at 08:05 PM. Reason: link no good

  3. #3
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    IMHO it's a good idea to have & keep this documentation if you're in that situation.
    So in case there's trouble later for "violating the FAR's", you can prove that you were told it was OK by the powers that be.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    IMHO it's a good idea to have & keep this documentation if you're in that situation.
    So in case there's trouble later for "violating the FAR's", you can prove that you were told it was OK by the powers that be.
    There is still a chance that the Flight Standards guys can over rule the first guy, but I think it's unlikely. Wouldn't you like to be a fly on the wall when they discuss this?

  5. #5
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    IMHO it's a good idea to have & keep this documentation if you're in that situation.
    So in case there's trouble later for "violating the FAR's", you can prove that you were told it was OK by the powers that be.
    Don't try that with the IRS or any other Fed.
    Eddie Foy
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God"

  6. #6
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richgj3 View Post
    ..He he got a letter back saying there would be no action on his petition because he did not require any relief because certainly, a DPE could operate under Basic Med.
    This makes sense, since the only reason the DPE needs a medical is that until he issues the applicant his new certificate there would not be a legal pilot in the airplane. I agree that Basic Med should be all that is required for a DPE for the same reasons as a CFI.
    N1PA

  7. #7
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richgj3 View Post
    There is still a chance that the Flight Standards guys can over rule the first guy, but I think it's unlikely. Wouldn't you like to be a fly on the wall when they discuss this?
    Depends on who signed the letter. If it was from FAA Legal, it's good as gold, and Flight Standards isn't going to over rule that.

    MTV

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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    Depends on who signed the letter. If it was from FAA Legal, it's good as gold, and Flight Standards isn't going to over rule that.

    MTV
    This is the guy who signed the first letter. Not sure if it's part of legal.

    James M. Crotty
    Manager, Aircraft and Airport Rules DivisionOffice of Rulemaking


    Likes skywagon8a liked this post

  9. #9
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Sounds golden to me.
    N1PA

  10. #10
    SJ's Avatar
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    Folks, quick training moment:

    Anything you can see on your computer screen can be captured and uploaded to supercub.org. If you have Windows 10 (and maybe 7) you can use the Snipping tool which is an awesome little screen cut and paste that will let you take a "picture" or a portion of your screen, save the file and upload it. On a mac you can hit shift-command-4 and drag the crosshairs, it will save a little file to your desktop with a .png extension. Either of these can then be uploaded.

    Now having said all of that, there are SOME things you can see on your computer screen that I would prefer you not capture and upload

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------

  11. #11

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    I'm using an iPad, so I probably should be using tapatalk.

  12. #12
    SJ's Avatar
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    Ipad screenshots https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT200289

    Should work with the supercub.org free app, tapatalk, or web upload.

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------

  13. #13

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    Ok, I have a screen shot of what I want and I have the SuperCub.Org app on my iPad.

    How do I get that screen shot into the app?

  14. #14
    SJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richgj3 View Post
    Ok, I have a screen shot of what I want and I have the SuperCub.Org app on my iPad.

    How do I get that screen shot into the app?
    When posting with the app click the little mountain icon at the bottom to upload a photo.


    Sent from my iPad using SuperCub.Org mobile app
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------

  15. #15

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    Let's try this.


    Sent from my iPad using SuperCub.Org mobile app
    Likes SJ, skywagon8a liked this post

  16. #16

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    So, the other shoe has dropped

    The above letter has been withdrawn and Mr. Ross has been told to expect a "clarification letter". His FSDO manager has been told by Flight Standards to tell Mr. Ross to "back off".

    Rich

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    Don't try that with the IRS or any other Fed.
    Eddie, I work with various Federal Agencies almost daily and TOTALLY DISAGREE. When dealing with ambiguity, in the lack of a written clarification, documentation is your best friend and while it may not relieve you from a violation it sure mitigates any potential associated penalty if you proceed with wrong direction.
    "Don't feed the hipsters"

  18. #18
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Kirby,

    It is a fact that you cannot stand behind advice given by the IRS on the phone. I have been there. Even if you are told the same thing multiple times. If it turns out to be wrong you are screwed.

    They are the only time I am aware of where you are declared guilty and must then prove your innocence.

    I dealt with a lot of Feds at AA. For the most part, they were friendly but were not your friend. They would throw you under the bus in a heart beat.

    "It is unfortunately all too common for government manuals, handbooks, and in-house publications to contain statements that were not meant or are not wholly reliable. If they go counter to governing statutes and regulations of the highest or higher dignity, e.g. regulations published in the Federal Register, they do not bind the government, and persons relying on them do so at their peril."

    IMHO
    YMMV
    Last edited by Eddie Foy; 04-20-2017 at 08:00 AM.
    Eddie Foy
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God"

  19. #19
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    ..It is a fact that you cannot stand behind advice given by the IRS on the phone. I have been there. Even if you are told the same thing multiple times. If it turns out to be wrong you are screwed.
    Also when you ask them a question face to face in their office. When you follow their face to face advise, you then get called in for an audit where they will deny that they said what they said. Everything MUST be in writing.
    N1PA

  20. #20
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Pete,
    That won't save you. Even if it is in writing, if it is wrong, you are screwed. Many judicial pecedents.
    Eddie Foy
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God"

  21. #21
    hotrod180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    IMHO it's a good idea to have & keep this documentation if you're in that situation.
    So in case there's trouble later for "violating the FAR's", you can prove that you were told it was OK by the powers that be.
    At least you can show that you acted in good faith by asking, then going by what you were told.
    Maybe you'll still be in hot water, but they oughta at least give you some points for trying to do the right thing.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    At least you can show that you acted in good faith by asking, then going by what you were told.
    Maybe you'll still be in hot water, but they oughta at least give you some points for trying to do the right thing.
    That's my point exactly, I have on several occasions used proper documentation of what turned out to be a wrong direction to mitigate/eliminate fines associated with such, and by proper documentation I mean "confirming our conversation..." in writing back to the individual that gave the direction.
    "Don't feed the hipsters"

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    Kirby,

    It is a fact that you cannot stand behind advice given by the IRS on the phone. I have been there. Even if you are told the same thing multiple times. If it turns out to be wrong you are screwed.

    They are the only time I am aware of where you are declared guilty and must then prove your innocence.

    I dealt with a lot of Feds at AA. For the most part, they were friendly but were not your friend. They would throw you under the bus in a heart beat.

    "It is unfortunately all too common for government manuals, handbooks, and in-house publications to contain statements that were not meant or are not wholly reliable. If they go counter to governing statutes and regulations of the highest or higher dignity, e.g. regulations published in the Federal Register, they do not bind the government, and persons relying on them do so at their peril."

    IMHO
    YMMV
    Eddie, its obvious they're just out to get you.
    "Don't feed the hipsters"

  24. #24
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLDCROWE View Post
    Eddie, its obvious they're just out to get you.
    Just because I am paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

    I just turn on the charm!

    Eddie Foy
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God"

  25. #25

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    Looks like FAA is back tracking on this issue



    Sent from my iPad using SuperCub.Org mobile app

  26. #26
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    I hate to say I told you so........but I did!
    Eddie Foy
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God"
    Likes Richgj3 liked this post

  27. #27

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    I figured there was at best a 50/50 chance this would stand. There are a few within the FAA, IMHO, who are less than pleased that this legislation was forced upon them and they act accordingly.

    Please don't take this as FAA bashing. It's just human nature. I have several good friends in the local FAA office who are straight shooters and not bureaucrats,who might relate the existence of that attitude in their co-workers in private conversations. The term we used at work is "malicious compliance".

    Rich

  28. #28
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post

    I just turn on the charm!

    We've been waiting

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

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