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Thread: Epoxy primer? Questions from Canada

  1. #1

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    Epoxy primer? Questions from Canada

    Ok so I am almost done with all the welding on the fuselage. I have been researching on the site about paint options. It seems that the PPG is well liked. So I will fire away.

    A conversion coating do I need it if I am going to sodablast then prime?

    In Canada one cannot get the ppg DPLF series of paint. We do have have a DPLV (low VOC) any one want to put forth their two cents. ? I was told that it is close to the LF. And that it is a solvent resistant.
    Additionally we do not have the 2000 series of paints and the delfleet is a comparable alternative for topcoat. Any one have any experience with these?

    I can source all this locally (3 hr drive) and it is cheaper than the polyfiber Stuart's etc..


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  2. #2
    Bearhawk Builder's Avatar
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    DP is a good primer, all versions I've used have been good although I'm not sure I've used the LV. No conversion coating needed on steel for epoxy primer, just clean it good. I'll put a plug in for my favorite epoxy primer, southernpolyurethanes.com, cheaper, better, free shipping, absolutely the toughest epoxy I've used.
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  3. #3

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    I'll check it out if they ship to Canada.

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    how about endura? pretty tuff stuff and easy to shoot

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    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    get a good & experienced POWDER COATER to do it... epoxy is so 1980's technology....

  6. #6

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    beaver pilot, if you go powder coating you may want to check with atomjet industries in Brandon manitoba, they do powder coating. I have been working with them on a project and have found them to be top notch so far.
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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    get a good & experienced POWDER COATER to do it... epoxy is so 1980's technology....
    LOL, yea, look that powder coated frame over in a few years, even frames done by Advanced. I'll take my epoxy primer and Ranthane top coat. No edging and gets in every crack and crevis. Yes it is a pita but it lasts.
    Steve Pierce

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    It's all about the prep. Sandblasting and phosphate treatment are a good way to start.

    https://www.corrosionpedia.com/defin...76/phosphating

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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    It's all about the prep. Sandblasting and phosphate treatment are a good way to start.

    https://www.corrosionpedia.com/defin...76/phosphating
    Yep but it still edges away from sharp edges and doesn't get into those tight crevices.
    Steve Pierce

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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Had a long conversation about powder coating with Mark Bills several years ago. Also have seen nice new Airframes powder coated fuselages with rust bleeding from under the float fittings and other cracks and crevices after a few years. In my opinion it is a great production tool but having repaired a lot of rusty fuselages I prefer epoxy primer and catalyzed polyurethane. I can get it into all those little hidden areas that cause problems down the road.
    Steve Pierce

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  11. #11

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    All paints creep away from sharp edges. The best way to deal with that is to dull the edges. As for coating into crevices? The way powder paints are attracted to the surface works better than trying to force pressurized paint and air into small areas and the film thickness remains consistent where typical paint will pool and run. But the real advantage is in the prep.

    Anyone who's interested can look at my Cessna's gear legs. Coated by Advanced 20 years ago and parked outside 24/7/365 since. Washed with soap and water once a year whether they need it or not. Except for a few rock chips they still look new. And there is no rust spreading under the chip edges. I've done a fair amount of painting and I can't do what powder coating does. The powder coated legs are maintaining their finish better than the 17 year-old Imron.
    Last edited by stewartb; 03-16-2017 at 09:15 AM.

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    I always use DPLF primer and top coat with PPG's AUE 100 urathane the stuff is as tuff as a woodpeckers beak, sprays great and since it's part of there industrial line it's cheap.

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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    When I talked to Mark about the edging he said it happened in the oven when heat was applied the powder would creep away. I know the science of the charged powder but I have still seen the real tight areas where it did not get. My gear legs are powder coated and look great when I clean them off and they get pounded with gravel a lot. My issues with powder is the little detail areas and it is way easier for me to blast, prime and paint and address all those areas. Would love it if I could take everything up the road and drop it off and it is all done but it hasn't been the end result I wanted.
    Steve Pierce

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    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PA-22/20-160 View Post
    I always use DPLF primer and top coat with PPG's AUE 100 urathane the stuff is as tuff as a woodpeckers beak, sprays great and since it's part of there industrial line it's cheap.
    I will have to check into the AUE 100. I take it you can get it tinted or it comes in a wide array of colors? White and flat black are what I use.
    Steve Pierce

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    I will have to check into the AUE 100. I take it you can get it tinted or it comes in a wide array of colors? White and flat black are what I use.
    They can make any color you like gloss or flat. It's all I've been using for steel tube and interior panels, rudder pedals, seat base, I even did a custom camo gun stock with it and have hunted hard with it and still looks new.
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    My Dad owns a company the dose onsite soda blasting and I've done some to my parts and would not use it for my fuselage, first it will not remove rust when you blast steel it looks just like it did when they welded it up even can still see the part numbers stamped on the metal and the rust will still be there too if it has any, second is it gives no tooth to the metal and leaves a soda film on the metal that protects it from rusting when it's raw but if not cleaned properly and completely you will have paint sticking problems. I have access to the soda blaster when ever I like and chose to only use it for the compressor and sandblast instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cub12 View Post
    how about endura? pretty tuff stuff and easy to shoot
    Who makes it?


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    FWIW Advanced Powder Coating recommends POR-15 chassis paint for touch-ups and repairs. They say it's the next best thing to powder coating.

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    Thanks for all the replies!

    I know the powder vs epoxy debate well however, My budget and location and wife do not make it feasible to get it powdercoated additionally I have had to repair parts that have been coated and it is not fun. I also have seen the rust coming through the coating-not airplane related parts. I like the ease of repair for the epoxies and the availability.

    So the next topic is blasting?
    Soda -I have and several hundred pounds of media.

    I have access to a sand set up.
    Any comments?
    What would be the best media?
    -- any worries of magnetism?


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  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaverpilot View Post
    Who makes it?


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    Endura Manufacturing in Edmonton. I had an AME recommend it back in 1990. He claimed that he used it on crop dusters and the chemicals wound't touch the paint. He would wash the plane and it would look like it was just repainted is what he also mentioned. Especially the belly. He also stated that it was what the amusement park rides were painted with but more noteworthy was the walkways up to the rides themselves. All the summer traffic and a good wash down at the end of the season ready for the next year. He was right. Parked outside 24/7/365 and 25yrs later the paint held up great. The Flex Coatings (FC) come with flexiblizer already in it but I bought some flex agent from them and put extra in the paint. Very easy to apply, 2 coats of primer and the same with the paint and all done. It took at least 3 days to dry before masking could be even considered for the striping. Still looks good to this day. Will ring worm if you beat on it when below freezing but I've seen Stits do the same. You just have to be nice to it when cleaning ice off. I use it every winter down to -25C and did not damage the paint. Very stinky though, use in well ventilated area and wear fresh air. FWIW, I'm about to use it again.
    RG

  21. #21
    Bearhawk Builder's Avatar
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    POR is really tough stuff, I've done auto chassis that look great after a decade but I've also seen some peeling issues in some areas. It's very sensitive to wax or oils and you really need to follow their procedure of de-grease, acid etch and paint. I wouldn't do it on aircraft. High quality epoxy and catalyzed topcoat will last as long as the fabric and is pretty easy to repair. Sounds like some have had good luck with some powder coating too.

  22. #22

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    Next trip to winnipeg set up an account at Rondex they supply at wholesale all types of paint
    If you want endura paints there is a supplier over buy the airport
    International paint is over on church street have used their epoxy primer with sucess
    Get some of it tinted a bit so you know where you have paint for the second or more coats

    Best advise for the tubes.....clean,blast clean, then clean again and when you think you have cleaned enough clean again

    Good luck

  23. #23

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    I can second POR 15. I painted an aluminum outdrive with it after 3 years it still looks new. As for powder coating, I powder coated an anchor about 15 years ago. I use that anchor 100 to 150 times a year. Not a nick on the coating, not even around the shackle hole. Usually if powder coating creeps it is because it is being overtemped. It is very difficult to keep hot spots from developing on a truss structure, but the range is wide enough that you should be able to keep the hottest of spots under the maximum.

  24. #24
    algonquin's Avatar
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    Good discussion, lots of good points. I was going to powder coat my PA-12 frame but the shop had it for several months and never had time to get to it. I picked it up, took it to a body shop and had it epoxy primed and painted with urethane. They sand blasted it for $200 and $500 for primer and paint. It looks great and no problems with it. I'm thinking either way if done right will work for us because airplane generally are treated very well vs. auto and usually are rebuilt very 20-30 years.

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    [QUOTE=Beaverpilot;683700]Who makes it?

    Endura makes Endura, google it and follow their website to the aviation paint page.Use their 2 part epoxy primer and paint on the fuse. They also make a fabric paint i painted my bi plane with but used stewarts up to silver. the same thing Oliver did with his red devil cub.
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  26. #26

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    Just a heads up, as there are differences in the chemistry of paints there are also differences in powder coating. Some powdercoating can be lifted with solvents such as MEK. Be sure the the product you chose will not be cut by solvents.

  27. #27
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Some fancy powder coat shop in Memphis did some parts on my Dad's airplane. They had all these stages and everything you read about and this is how it looks 10 plus years later.


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    Last edited by Steve Pierce; 04-11-2017 at 11:58 AM.
    Steve Pierce

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