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Best Cylinders

Binty

Registered User
South Island, New Zealand
I have a 1st life R22 Engine (160HP) which Im going to have overhauled as a future transplant for our Cub. I will buy new cylinders for it.

What thoughts are out there as to the best available and why/why not...?
 
I have a 1st life R22 Engine (160HP) which Im going to have overhauled as a future transplant for our Cub. I will buy new cylinders for it.

What thoughts are out there as to the best available and why/why not...?
Before I topped my 0320 I asked Barrett Precision Engines who I was going to have put their magic touch to the valves and balance them whatever I bought and the response was "Factory", so we stayed Lycoming, steel cylinders and have loved 'em ever since and the same question for my IO520 in the Skywagon was different.
 
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Why do you think that you need "new" cylinders? Unless yours have been abused they can safely be reworked and reused by a competent engine mechanic with the proper tools.
 
Why do you think that you need "new" cylinders? Unless yours have been abused they can safely be reworked and reused by a competent engine mechanic with the proper tools.

I'm gonna guess it's an engine from a R22 helicopter and has spent it's entire life up to now running at 95 to 100 % power mostly. Those cylinders would be rather tired I'd expect. jrh
 
I have changed more rebuilt cylinders by far than first run cylinders so I like new at overhaul. I have had good luck with all the current manufacturers.
 
Continental bought ECI and has adopted ECI manufacturing for their own cylinders. They still offer nickel plated or steel replacement cylinders for Lycomings. Superior has steel. Continental San Antonio (old ECi) and Superior both use through hardening instead of nitriding. I believe Lycoming sill nitrides their cylinders. The big choice in cylinders is nickel or steel. The next choice is through hardened or nitrided. You have three choices for new. All are good. There are some differences to consider.
 
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I'm gonna guess it's an engine from a R22 helicopter and has spent it's entire life up to now running at 95 to 100 % power mostly. Those cylinders would be rather tired I'd expect. jrh
Robinson R-22
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/3a27e3925f44c55486257bc9005dca07/$FILE/H10WE_Rev_15.pdf

Maximum rpm 2652 (124 hp) That's only 78% power for that engine. Takeoff (5 minutes) (131 hp.) 2652 rpm The engine is derated for use in the R-22.
 
Robinson R-22
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/3a27e3925f44c55486257bc9005dca07/$FILE/H10WE_Rev_15.pdf

Maximum rpm 2652 (124 hp) That's only 78% power for that engine. Takeoff (5 minutes) (131 hp.) 2652 rpm The engine is derated for use in the R-22.

Its probably not just a % number. If the cooling is not good or there is a ton of heat-cool cycles it makes a difference.
 
Robinson R-22
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/3a27e3925f44c55486257bc9005dca07/$FILE/H10WE_Rev_15.pdf

Maximum rpm 2652 (124 hp) That's only 78% power for that engine. Takeoff (5 minutes) (131 hp.) 2652 rpm The engine is derated for use in the R-22.

OK. i looked at the Robinson T.C. It doesn't account for the derating. I suppose it still does near its max from takeoff to landing. There isn't much throttling back or gliding in a helicopter.
Engine Limits for all operations Maximum rpm 2652 (124 hp) (104%)
See RFM for maximum manifold pressure corresponding to 124 hp.
See RFM for altitude limitations.
 
Why do you think that you need "new" cylinders? Unless yours have been abused they can safely be reworked and reused by a competent engine mechanic with the proper tools.

The engine was from a R22b Heli and has about 1700hrs 1st life on it. It was a good engine which flew at least 30mins most days, didnt use oil and had good compression's. It had a heavy landing and main rotor contact (ie sudden stoppage). It sat in a hanger for a couple of years before I got hold of it. There is a little corrosion in a couple of the barrels. They were taken off, honed and Inhibited along with the rest of the engine. The remainder of the 'visible' insides of the engine showed no signs of corrosion.

It will be torn down and inspected as per the sudden stoppage requirements. Im not sure if I will give it a full O'haul or just have the bolt strip and dont know yet how much 'meat' is left in the CYLs...

The current power plant runs like a clock so Im in no rush to get this done. I am looking forward to having the 10 extra HP though.
 
There isn't much throttling back or gliding in a helicopter.
You are absolutely correct in that a helicopter is seemingly at full power all the time. EXCEPT in this application the basic engine model is limited to what is basically a high cruise setting in a Cub. Engines which are run at higher (but not limit) power settings generally are in better condition than those which are babied.

The engine was from a R22b Heli and has about 1700hrs 1st life on it. It was a good engine which flew at least 30mins most days, didnt use oil and had good compression's. It had a heavy landing and main rotor contact (ie sudden stoppage). It sat in a hanger for a couple of years before I got hold of it. There is a little corrosion in a couple of the barrels. They were taken off, honed and Inhibited along with the rest of the engine. The remainder of the 'visible' insides of the engine showed no signs of corrosion.

It will be torn down and inspected as per the sudden stoppage requirements. Im not sure if I will give it a full O'haul or just have the bolt strip and dont know yet how much 'meat' is left in the CYLs...

The current power plant runs like a clock so Im in no rush to get this done. I am looking forward to having the 10 extra HP though.
I'm not familiar with the drive system in a Robinson. Does the engine have a belt drive to the transmission? If so, it sounds as though you have a good engine for your purpose.
 
You are absolutely correct in that a helicopter is seemingly at full power all the time. EXCEPT in this application the basic engine model is limited to what is basically a high cruise setting in a Cub. Engines which are run at higher (but not limit) power settings generally are in better condition than those which are babied.


I'm not familiar with the drive system in a Robinson. Does the engine have a belt drive to the transmission? If so, it sounds as though you have a good engine for your purpose.

yep, belt drive.- One of the reasons I selected this engine as a core for my project-

Ive talked to Overhaulers and they all say they have never seen crankshaft damage from a R22 sudden stoppage (but yet we still have to pay $$$$ to have the thing bolt stripped & checked?!). What they do see a lot of is valve damage from over revving at startup with no load on the engine. (Most of which is never reported).

as for the gas, Iv heard from other 0320-B2C conversions, I can expect the same if not lower fuel burns...
 
You will notice buying $5 gas more than the 10 hp.. Tractor gas works just fine in 150hp.

I run 91 to 93 octane E0 mogas in mine. If I'm really in a pinch I'll fill half tanks or so with 100ll at wherever I can find it cheapest (3.60 right now a ~25 min flight away) and then top off with 87 octane E0.

If you look hard enough and are lucky where you live, you can find 100ll as cheap as the higher octane E0, that makes it really easy.
 
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