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Hangar door trainwrecks



Most door operators can be wired generally so they do one of two things; it can move only while holding the up or down button (as long as the up or down limit isn't open), or it can be wired so you hit and release the button and it will continue moving until the up/down limit switch is opened, like most garage doors. If it's wired like the second method, a required bit of safety equipment is an obstruction sensor that reverses the door if young Billy or Scooter runs under it while it's coming down.

I'll take a stab that this one is wired like the second method, but someone either couldn't figure out how to properly install the sensor, disabled it, or it wasn't working. Another good reason to inspect things now and then, which might prevent this sort of comedy.

Which stops being funny the moment your airplane or truck gets squashed or someone gets hurt.
 
Most door operators can be wired generally so they do one of two things; it can move only while holding the up or down button (as long as the up or down limit isn't open), or it can be wired so you hit and release the button and it will continue moving until the up/down limit switch is opened, like most garage doors. If it's wired like the second method, a required bit of safety equipment is an obstruction sensor that reverses the door if young Billy or Scooter runs under it while it's coming down.

I'll take a stab that this one is wired like the second method, but someone either couldn't figure out how to properly install the sensor, disabled it, or it wasn't working. Another good reason to inspect things now and then, which might prevent this sort of comedy.

Which stops being funny the moment your airplane or truck gets squashed or someone gets hurt.
That picture, I believe from past reports, was the result of a broken lift cable.

However, I won't argue about a safety switch but with a nose dragger it would have shot its little beam under the tail resulting in a future beer can... so there you have it one more reason that tail draggers are safer!
 
That picture, I believe from past reports, was the result of a broken lift cable.

However, I won't argue about a safety switch but with a nose dragger it would have shot its little beam under the tail resulting in a future beer can... so there you have it one more reason that tail draggers are safer!


Thanks for the info - I shouldn't speculate. I removed a previous post because I decided that it was in pretty poor taste. SQUIRREL!!!

I don't know how a photo eye would work with a door like that as they do with an overhead garage door; the door parts would get in the way, I think. There are other methods, such as a contact strip or pneumatic switch along the bottom.

My door looks like that one, but it has straps instead of wire rope. There are four, spaced across the span. I think most of them would have to break before the door would come down, but maybe not.
 
I have two HI Folds and one Schweiss Door. All three are bifold and I have not had a problems with any of them. Once you learn how to adjust them so they close tight, they work well. A little lock tight helps to keep the adjustment nuts from backing off. Also lube well twice a year.
I will say the Schweiss is the heavier built of the two manufacturers.

For you guys having trouble with people not unlocking the doors or not pulling the wind pin.:evil: Take a piece of card board and write " REMOVE WIND PIN" and tape so they have to lift it up to get at the up-down buttons. I had the same problem until I did that and no problems since.
 
In my world, there are more bifold doors than others. If that is consistent with the REAL world, statistically there are likely to be more bifold incidents than other designs......just like in MY world.

I dont have a thing against bifolds FYI

.....just sayin'
 
10 years with two HydroSwings, left open often, in wind, opened against snow, often, zero issues. I like the design because the harder the wind blows when they are closed, the tighter they seal, simple as can be. I trust my life (and others) every day to hydraulics, my doors are the least of my concerns.
 
Courier guy or Phil Z does your hydro swing doors have safety check valves to prevent the door from falling in case of a burst hose? We have some equipment on the potato side with long heavy hyd booms that move over people. The manufacturer insists on check valves to catch it in that event. I have never seen a door fall on a plane though


i have a Hifold door plus a Schweiss. Both very good companies with helpful tech support. Jeremy at Schweiss has saved me a lot of trouble. Lots of good links in this thread to door manufacturers


jim
 
My neighbor is putting up a wooden hanger and going with the Higher Power door. The building designer that sold him the wood package gave a sigh of relief that the HP door was chosen. The door can free stand and operate on it's own. No beefups of the building necessary.

I would not mind more information about your buddy's hanger package and door.

Looking to build a hanger in the next couple of years here, and deal with big snow loads here, and cold temps. Would be nice to not have to ship from Seattle.
 
Courier guy or Phil Z does your hydro swing doors have safety check valves to prevent the door from falling in case of a burst hose? We have some equipment on the potato side with long heavy hyd booms that move over people. The manufacturer insists on check valves to catch it in that event. I have never seen a door fall on a plane though


i have a Hifold door plus a Schweiss. Both very good companies with helpful tech support. Jeremy at Schweiss has saved me a lot of trouble. Lots of good links in this thread to door manufacturers


jim


Yes, of course, I guess some think they don't? They've had the science of hydraulics, when used to lift critical loads over people, figured out for some time now. A burst hose (and I've never seen a "burst one" on my various cranes and boom trucks, they'll start leaking first) makes a mess but it shouldn't lower the load. The loading on my door is predictable and small, ( as compared to the shock loading that can happen in other hoisting equipment, due to operator error) and it's way overbuilt for it's job. Plus all the working parts are kept inside, out of the sun, unlike other hydraulic equipment hoses that degrade from UV exposure. I also like the newer bi-folds with the straps. But the headroom loss from any bi-fold as compared to a HydroSwing type was a deal breaker for me.

Over the years, it's always been interesting to see the different schemes people come up with to open their hangars, it's the first thing I look at when flying into a new small airport or strip, (the smaller the better, the homebuilt ones are the ones I like) the mechanical ingenuity on display is fascinating! Like the ones that feature a concrete filled 55 gallon drum or two as a counter weight at the rear, that help raise the door through a series of pulleys, gotta love that. I still feel a bit guilty that I wimped out and bought ready made, after building two previous ones earlier, but I was in a hurry and had the dough, no regrets though, as they work better then anything I dreamed up.
 
Tango, I believe he had Spenard Builders Supply put the wood package together. The door isn't here yet, but its a Higher Power door. HPdoors.com I believe, it is hydraulic if that concerns you.

Interestingly, I helped the very next neighbor put up an R&M with a Schweiss bi fold this summer as well. Both guys are comparing notes and they think they have the same amount of money tied up in the wood and the steel building packages. Wood is 48x50, 12 foot ceiling. Steel is 50x52 with an 18' wall.

I will confirm the wooden building package supplier.
 
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FWIW there are several R&M hangars at my airport.
IMHO their engineering is poor, maybe not structurally but at least as far as water leaks are concerned.
Not enough pitch on the roofs has been a factor in a number of leaky roofs, being in the Puget Sound area we do get a spot of rain now and again. In fact one building approx 200'x50' has the ridge going across the short way, leaving two very long rakes. I doubt it's even pitched 1 in 12, and this is in the rainy Puget Sound country. They could have had the same height building with the ridge going the other way, and had enough pitch fo drainage. I've also seen on two hangars where they incorporated a taller box hangar onto the end of a lower t-hangar building, and the interface of the two is poorly designed with regards to weather proofing also with resulted in leaks.
 
OK Eric,
I'll see your almost flat roof and raise you a roof line that's pitched to the inside of the row of Tee hangars at Thun Field, in the rainy Puget Sound. What a mess that has been, for decades.
Then, there are the condo hangars where the roof structure is cantilevered 16' over a beam that wasn't nearly big enough, requiring a beef up at the owner's cost so the sliding doors might continue to slide. You can't install a real door because the doors have to bypass and there's no structure over the sliding doors to carry a real door anyway.
Sorry Eric, but I might win the poor engineering pissing contest.
 
Whomever put the roof on that R&M may have lapped the sheet metal joints incorrectly. The left and right panel edges are formed differently. According to the manual, the short edge of the panel goes over the long edge. If the process is reversed, then water can wick between panels. There is also a gum tape involved, not sure if it was only used for the crown or if it was supposed to be installed between all seams I was on the ground running the zoom boom that day.
 
Jim, I was told my early hydroswing had an orifice in the end of hydraulic cylinder that if a hose burst the door would still lower but at a slow rate. They recommended to not leave anything under for long periods of time. It does open faster than it closes and hydraulic pressure seems more to close, so I believe their is sometype of valved orifice inline so it would not close so fast it would bite you.
 
Glad people have had positive experiences with Higher Power doors. I like the design concept, however having had one installed on a company hangar it was a terrible experience. If it was my personal door I would have sent the door back for a refund. That was 2012. Maybe things have changed, or I was the odd one out.


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"Glad people have had positive experiences with Higher Power doors. I like the design concept, however having had one installed on a company hangar it was a terrible experience. If it was my personal door I would have sent the door back for a refund. That was 2012. Maybe things have changed, or I was the odd one out."


Are you saying the actual installation process was a bad experience, or? Would you please give a few details? I'd be very interested to hear about your experience.
 
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Are you saying the actual installation process was a bad experience, or? Would you please give a few details? I'd be very interested to hear about your experience.

Had an 80x80 hangar constructed for an Ag Aviation operation where the contractor chose to use a Higher Power door, 70x14 (clearing). I was very in favor of that choice since I had seen the HP doors and liked the concept and design and so did the contractor.

Door arrived and as the contractor was putting together to install found that the door center mounting brackets were mis-placed when welded on the door structure. This became a 2 day process to cut and re-weld the brackets that put the 2 door halves together to where everything line up correctly and the door halves were not offset and the door was actually a solid rectangle. Also looking over the quality of the welds in the entire structure everything just looked sloppy and inconsistent. After the door was up, we never could get the hydraulics to flow evenly, the door raised/lowered at different rates on each side to the point I was in fear that we were going to shear bolts with the door twisting. Had a hydraulic pump lock up a few weeks after use, had to replace. Plus the cylinders we received would float up after a few weeks of sitting idle. Meaning if I put the door down and came back 2 weeks later, the door would have floated up several inches. Over winter I went back to check and the door floated up enough I crawled under the door and inside the hangar. Explanation I got was the batch of cylinders were too close of tolerance and HP came to disassemble and 'score' a seal/bushing inside so pressure would bleed off when it was down. I didn't understand that and neither did a hydraulic engineer I spoke with at another door company. Wouldn't it bleed down when it was raised also? I don't know if the door still does it as I got transferred and moved away, not my project anymore. Always had daylight around the door seals and water inside after a rain. Could have had a crappy installer for the seal.

Asked the contractor if he would ever do it again. He said maybe if HP changed some things. He didn't have to deal with the drama after the door was up. HP was helpful when dealing with all these problems, but overall the whole experience, to me, was enough for me to look elsewhere if I were needing a door in the future.

That door made in Oklahoma I saw on the hangars in Bartlesville. I liked them, would probably go that route. Single cylinder on a cable pulley system, so no un-even raising/lowering issues. Opens on same style track as HP doors. There was another door of similar design I saw at Oshkosh but don't remember the name nor can I find them online. It had 2 angled arms guiding the door up instead of a track system and rollers.




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...OK Eric, I'll see your almost flat roof and raise you a roof line that's pitched to the inside of the row of Tee hangars at Thun Field, in the rainy Puget Sound.....Sorry Eric, but I might win the poor engineering pissing contest.

Put your money where your mouth is, Carey!! :p

As far as correctly installing the roof panels goes, the contractors who erected these R&M buildings have done a lot of steel buildings before so I'm pretty sure they got it right. Even if they got the lap wrong, if there's enough pitch on the roof, the lap isn't nearly as critical. The two troublesome low roof / high roof interfaces are both just poor design, period. I know a little bit about this stuff, I was a union sheet metal worker for 35 years.
 
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My two cents re the Higher Power door. I have a 40 X 12 on my shop, and did encounter some problems, though I think it's an excellent, clever design.

First, communications with the factory didn't always go well. I ordered 40 ft width, and the written confirmation came back as 42 ft. I wrote again to emphasize 40 ft and received a correct confirmation. When the door arrived it was 42 ft wide! The company paid for a local fabricator to shorten the door without argument (I didn't see any point in doing that myself for nothing).

I did the assembly and installation myself. The paint job (primer) on the steel parts was inadequate, so I sandblasted and re-primed every steel part. On assembly, I found the instructions to be quite good.

Some of the long 2" X 4" structural tubes were spliced together from multiple short pieces, and not straight. This created an interference with the wall at the top of the door, for which I had to make adjustments to the installation. They should have used full-length steel. Once installed, the door had about two inches of warp (non-parallel end to end), so that the bottom did not line up correctly to the opening. I corrected that by partly disassembling and shimming some bolted connections. Now it fits fine. The seals are good quality and work fine.

In short, in my opinion there is some excellent engineering incorporated in the design. However in my case, quality control in the fabrication was of lesser quality.

Edit: Another plus: The fastener package was perfectly complete, even including the concrete anchor bolts for the uprights. Each bolt size was separate in a baggie and appropriately labeled.
 
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Good to hear feedback on the higher power company. When did you install yours Gordon? Sounds like both of you that got them had some pretty serious quality issues with them. Flyby, what was the company you referred to in OK that uses a single cylinder setup?

pb
 
Good to hear feedback on the higher power company. When did you install yours Gordon? Sounds like both of you that got them had some pretty serious quality issues with them. Flyby, what was the company you referred to in OK that uses a single cylinder setup?

pb

It would be those floatingdoors.us , friend has them on his hangar. Seemed slick


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Good to hear feedback on the higher power company. When did you install yours Gordon? Sounds like both of you that got them had some pretty serious quality issues with them. Flyby, what was the company you referred to in OK that uses a single cylinder setup?

pb
I purchased mine roughly two years ago, but didn't install it until last summer/fall. Now that the bugs are worked out, I do really like it.
 
I just installed a Higher Power door on my 1947 cinderblock building. I chose it because it didn't put a load on those old blocks. It works perfectly. I purchased it during Oshkosh and received a show discount as well as a remote. Everything else I researched was hinged from the header which would not have been smart on my building. The door replaced some very heavy and unsafe counterweighted doors that had sixty year old cables and barrels. I had great customer support. I think it is the fastest hydrolic door.
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Since this thread has organically evolved from wrecks to door design, I am waiting for someone to talk about the counterweighted doors designed by one of our own!

counterweighted doors!! Guys???!!
OK, I'll bite. When Ron Barrows remodeled my hangar he was faced with a nice door that was entirely counterweighted. He decided to leave the counterweight in place, but take out a few pounds so that the door lowers a bit on its own. He then fashioned a simple electric hoist to help lift the door, one that you have to stand there with your thumb on the "Up" or "Down" button until the door is raised to the position desired, or lowered to the floor. The only snag with this is that when one lowers the door you have to watch to make sure you don't unravel the cable from the spool. It works great and if I ever lose electricity I can still open/close the door!

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Randy
 

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A friend of mine bought a home on an airstrip years ago, including a door-less hangar.
After several years of that, he decided he needed a door.
He ended up buying sort of a kit door- I believe it was a set of plans plus hardware.
Wood-framed, with gussets attached at all the intersections.
He sided it using translucent fiberglass panels like you'd use on your patio roof.
It's a roll-up door like you'd see on a garage, curved tracks are mounted to the roof joists.
There's a pulley & cable down at every track,
all clamped to one cable which runs to a winch mounted on the side wall.
Big steel counterweight incorporated into the design makes it easy to crank.
And all manually operated, so no power = no problem.
 
Hotrod180, that is the door I referenced in an earlier post. They work very well and quite inexpensive. They sell plans which I purchased and also kits, if still in business. One located at the Coulee Dam Airport 3W7 is sided with metal, still working after being built many years ago.

http://ultimatedoor.homestead.com/ultimate.html
I have the plans for that door I bought in 1984. I think they called it the Aero Line door back then. Troy,WI. I know of one in Kansas that works good. Cheap and simple as doors go. Its not a door for an expensive high end hangar but its fine for a pole building type structure.
 
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