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Thread: N9460D 'A' model Super Cub

  1. #41
    Cubus Maximus's Avatar
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    Local A's





    Last edited by Cubus Maximus; 02-26-2017 at 05:46 PM.
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  2. #42
    AirPigz's Avatar
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    Thanx for the pix... it's interesting for me to see the flat backs. I think they actually look very nice on these examples. I'm leaving the flat back and the hopper door in place and I think on a fresh airplane it's gonna look really good.

    Martt

  3. #43

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    Here's another style of flat back without the hopper lid and glass added IMG_1160.JPG
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  4. #44
    AirPigz's Avatar
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    Looks nice PA-22/20-160, is that a project of yours?

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by AirPigz View Post
    Looks nice PA-22/20-160, is that a project of yours?
    Yes I'm finally getting to work on my own plane
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by PA-22/20-160 View Post
    Here's another style of flat back without the hopper lid and glass added IMG_1160.JPG
    Chuck: I see you went ahead with the Flanagan STC. Looking good!
    Ed

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by cubpilot2 View Post
    Chuck: I see you went ahead with the Flanagan STC. Looking good!
    I did and thanks again for the help with the drawings, Flanagan must have had stock in the rivnut company there must be 200 of them just to hold the glass.

  8. #48
    Cub junkie's Avatar
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    Is this STC from James Flanagan of Independence ,MO ?

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cub junkie View Post
    Is this STC from James Flanagan of Independence ,MO ?
    Don't know if he's the one that got the Stc but cubcrafters owns it now but they don't really support it.

  10. #50
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    In the '60's James Flanagan did maintenance work on my fathers pipeline patrollers. He had a PA18 around he called the Super Bear. I was told he had several STC's. He kind of went off the grid and I'm sure he is long deceased. Just curious.

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by PA-22/20-160 View Post
    Here's another style of flat back without the hopper lid and glass added IMG_1160.JPG
    Any chance of some more pictures of the portion of the fuse where the glass will go? I am building an experimental that will be a PA-18A / L21 hybrid in this area and looking for ideas on how to attach the "glass".

    Thanks,
    Andrew.

  12. #52

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    Here you go
    IMG_1169.JPG
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  13. #53
    AirPigz's Avatar
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    Here are some new pix of my progress on N9460D.

    Floorboards No Stain.jpg
    New floorboards built


    Floorboards Stained.jpg
    Floorboards after mahogany stain. My attempt at tight holes around the front seat belt attach fittings didn't work so I decided to generously enlarge them and will put aluminum plates over.

    Panel With Holes.jpg
    New instrument panel holes cut

    RAM Mount.jpg
    RAM mount for iPad

    iPad Mount Windshield On.jpg
    Test fit of iPad with mock panel and old windshield in place... should work perfectly (borrowed iPad has had a hard life)

    With a quick twist of the RAM mount clamp you'll be able to remove everything except for the 2-1/2" black ball plate that will be mounted in a 3-1/8" hole. This way an iPad is in a great spot for use, but can be removed easily to fit the 'vintage' look.


    Martt
    Warsaw, Indiana
    N9460D
    1959 PA-18A
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  14. #54
    cubpilot2's Avatar
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    Looking good Martt

    Curious: Are you going to leave the two stubs that stick out above the rear seat?
    Those were attachments for 1/4 inch rods that extended down to a fixture to "cradle" the hopper.
    I would cut those off as they will only mess up your interior panels and get in your way.
    I also get rid of most other tabs that held the ag stuff, such as the outside agitator mounts on the left side.
    I like the floorboard extension also which are well worth the time!

    take care
    Ed

  15. #55
    AirPigz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubpilot2 View Post
    Looking good Martt

    Curious: Are you going to leave the two stubs that stick out above the rear seat?
    Those were attachments for 1/4 inch rods that extended down to a fixture to "cradle" the hopper.
    I would cut those off as they will only mess up your interior panels and get in your way.
    I also get rid of most other tabs that held the ag stuff, such as the outside agitator mounts on the left side.
    I like the floorboard extension also which are well worth the time!

    take care
    Thanx... I did cut off the misc tabs you mention but so far have decided to leave the big lugs as a nod to this airplane's ag roots. They had rubber donuts that went over them that dressed them up and made them non hazardous to the person in the rear. I'll be fitting the interior panels again soon (and covering them with a light leather) and will consider your suggestion once I see what they look like once again in a finished condition.

    While this airplane seems to have the full ag set up, I'm guessing it did very little, if any, actual ag work. I found no corrosion, and even the flat top hopper door, which is also being retained to acknowledge this airplane's roots, doesn't have any dents or even scratches in it.

    More pix soon as I keep knocking out projects so I can get on to fabric work : )

    Martt

  16. #56
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    I removed the hopper door and installed light tinted plexiglass for the dogs that rode back there. Seemed to please them and made finding things in winter easier.

    GAP
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  17. #57
    AirPigz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    I removed the hopper door and installed light tinted plexiglass for the dogs that rode back there. Seemed to please them and made finding things in winter easier.

    GAP
    I can see that being a nice set up for sure, and can definitely see the dogs liking it : )

    Last Saturday morning I arrived at the local airport as a friend was warming up in his T-Craft... that turned into me getting to make a takeoff and landing in it with him and his little dog that he was gonna take for her first ride. She was in the baggage and then had her front paws on my shoulder right after takeoff. She seemed to enjoy the ride. Made for a really enjoyable 20 minutes of right seat flying on a 20° morning in northern Indiana.

    Martt

    2017-03-11_10.31.19.jpg

    2017-03-11_10.35.17.jpg

    2017-03-11_10.25.23.jpg
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  18. #58
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    Good thread and great airplane project! I had two 150 Cubs (one an "A" N1189C and one regular N7777D) and flew two others. I prefer the "A". Takes off short, climbs high, goes fast, stalls slow. The rear baggage area and flat floor made for convenient cargo hauling. My worst mistake in aviation was trading it off for a PA-12-180. Oh well, we all stumble at times.

    But now that you've been Taylorcraftize'd you may throw rocks at the Cub...not really but they are worth a ride in sometime or owning as a second plane.

    Gary

  19. #59
    Cub junkie's Avatar
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    I'm as far south in Indiana as you are north Airpigz. Winter really hasn't kicked our butts down here this year. Lucky I guess. I love old T crafts. Mine was also a '40 except a BL65 N29634 just a little newer than the one in your pic. Wish I would have kept it, like many that got away.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    Good thread and great airplane project! I had two 150 Cubs (one an "A" N1189C and one regular N7777D) and flew two others. I prefer the "A". Takes off short, climbs high, goes fast, stalls slow. The rear baggage area and flat floor made for convenient cargo hauling. My worst mistake in aviation was trading it off for a PA-12-180. Oh well, we all stumble at times.

    But now that you've been Taylorcraftize'd you may throw rocks at the Cub...not really but they are worth a ride in sometime or owning as a second plane.

    Gary
    Good to hear that the 'A' model served you so well, too bad you don't still have it. My Cub experience is with a 90hp Clipped Wing J-3 back when I was a 18/19 years old around 1980, and then currently with a full span J-3 in a local flying club.

    N9460D is my first direct exposure to a Super Cub, but I'm really enjoying everything I'm learning about it. It'll be really interesting to look closely at regular PA-18 in the future to compare the 'A' model differences that I know have my head wrapped around.

    And I have a bit of T-Craft experience from back in the day, a friend in the 70's and 80's had one with an A75 and a Beech Roby prop... I think they're great airplanes, and sure agree that one would make an excellent second airplane. But I learned at 13 in a 7KCAB Citabria, so tandem seats and a stick are just what feel right to me.

    I'm restoring the Super Cub for a brother I have in California, but hopefully I'll be doing a Clipped Wing Cub before too long to keep for myself : )

    Martt

  21. #61
    AirPigz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cub junkie View Post
    I'm as far south in Indiana as you are north Airpigz. Winter really hasn't kicked our butts down here this year. Lucky I guess. I love old T crafts. Mine was also a '40 except a BL65 N29634 just a little newer than the one in your pic. Wish I would have kept it, like many that got away.
    We've sure been up and down and all around with the weather this winter, but all things considered, it hasn't been all that bad.

    Cool to hear you have T-Craft stories as well... just too bad you don't have one anymore.

    Martt
    Last edited by AirPigz; 03-18-2017 at 04:05 PM.

  22. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by AirPigz View Post
    But I learned at 13 in a 7KCAB Citabria, so tandem seats and a stick are just what feel right to me.


    Martt
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  23. #63
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    There's many experienced Cub drivers and builders here but I'm not one...experienced in owning 9 aircraft and flying some others on the job yes, but not a Cub expert.

    My -18 "A" was rebuilt by Pete Sanders in Helena, MT. after a wreck and I flew it back to Fairbanks in September 1987. I did the following: Light electricals and battery; bare panel and interior; Atlee Dodge simple baggage; stock 150 engine and 80/40 prop; stock fuel; Hendricks squared tips and ailerons at stock Cub span; flap gap seals over flaps and ailerons; flaps extended into fuselage; VG's on wings; stock Cub wing rigging. Weighed 1087# but could have been lighter with a lighter fabric job and stock wings. Would fly down to 28 GPS under cruise power in level flight. Next time I'd leave the wing stock but did like the aileron seals, and VG's especially on floats.

    It was a 4 hour plane plus reserve and had a 150 mile radius plus reserve for reasonable winds at 90 wheels/skis/floats. I guess If were building one today like you I'd set the plans based upon how it was intended to be used most of the time. Nice-to-have mods that rarely get needed can add weight and expense. If I had one goal it'd be light weight first, then whatever else I'd be using 90% of the time. My advice would be keep it simple.

    Gary
    Last edited by BC12D-4-85; 03-18-2017 at 06:50 PM.
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  24. #64
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    I too had a T-craft BC12-D N43803 as my first airplane, visibility is terrible had to duck down to see out the side windows. Was almost run over by a Lockheed P-3 because of it. I could hear and smell his kerosene when he went by the windshield. Bought it as a wreck for $400 and turned in my first 337 at the FSDO on it while on the way to get my Airframe practical to complete my A&P. Flew it over 200 hours the first year, kept it hangared, all on an income of $25 a week.

    Quote Originally Posted by BC12D-4-85 View Post
    .. flap gap seals over flaps and ailerons; ....but did like the aileron seals,..
    Gary
    Gary please explain "flap gap seals". Are you referring to the required sheet metal which is screwed to the trailing edge? Or something else? Please describe what you mean by "aileron seals".
    N1PA
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  25. #65
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    I too had a T-craft BC12-D N43803 as my first airplane, visibility is terrible had to duck down to see out the side windows. Was almost run over by a Lockheed P-3 because of it. I could hear and smell his kerosene when he went by the windshield. Bought it as a wreck for $400 and turned in my first 337 at the FSDO on it while on the way to get my Airframe practical to complete my A&P. Flew it over 200 hours the first year, kept it hangared, all on an income of $25 a week.


    Gary please explain "flap gap seals". Are you referring to the required sheet metal which is screwed to the trailing edge? Or something else? Please describe what you mean by "aileron seals".
    Thread drift and apologies to Martt but I'll respond:

    #1: Learning in a low power light wing loading plane like J-3's, Champs, Taylorcrafts I believe helps develop the respect for performers...like Supercubs and C-185's. Even limiting the power to say 100 and using no flaps sometimes in a PA-18 can reignite the respect for flying the wing and high density altitude and heavy ops. My Taylorcraft with a skylight and clear Lexan covered seaplane doors has better visibility.

    #2: I did several temporary experimental wing mods to my PA-18A. One I liked at low airspeed for better aileron control and maybe lower stall (?) was extending the existing upper factory flap gap seals outboard over the ailerons. They can be duplicated on a roll and then bent back on a brake to match the factory design. I installed them like the flap seals but with 1/8" clearance between the up deflected aileron and the new seal similar to the flapped portions with the flaps retracted. A Maule wing has a similar close fit over their ailerons unlike Piper. I believe it helps seal the aileron/wing gap and improves the flow over the deflected aileron similar to the flaps. I found them effective in slow flight. I'd do it again but it's not an approved mod. I also end-plated the outboard ends of the flaps similar to flat endplates on some Ag planes that extend the form of the airfoil. There was some additional lift to be had as determined by roll away at flap deflection from the only one with them installed. I then put them on both flaps. I'd do it again (inboard and outboard ends) for myself but it's not an approved mod.

    #3 My first PA-18 and later PA-12-180 had stock flaps and ailerons with extended Hendricks/D&N tips. Terrible roll control when slow that could have been improved by extending the ailerons to the point where they didn't have to fight the tip vortex. The PA-12 had a Crosswinds cuff and stall fence. I had them removed and preferred the stock airfoil. In the end I like a factory wing with some of the help I've described.

    #4 If we were as curious as Fred Weick was (https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/c...9930083935.pdf) maybe we'd learn something about the airflow circulation about a wing with and without modifications. The example is a Taylorcraft but the process applies to all. His life as an aeronautical engineer described in this book is worth a read (https://www.amazon.com/GROUND-UP-Fre.../dp/0874749506).

    GAP
    Last edited by BC12D-4-85; 03-19-2017 at 12:56 PM.
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  26. #66

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    I have a 1953 PA-18A-135 I found in a barn in Kansas. The aircraft had last been flown in 1978. It has 1200 TTSN. The fabric was unable to pass inspection so the owner took the wings off and brought them to an IA to recover. He then removed all the fabric off the fuselage. When the owner checked with the IA about his wings he discovered the wings had been stolen. He did find a pair of replacement wings in trade-a-plane. Those wings were on a brand new PA-18 being ferried from the Piper factory. The airplane was ground looped resulting in dented leading edge skins on both wings. The owner of the new cub did not want any damage history so those wings were replaced with new ones. The damaged ones were repaired and sold to the owner of the PA-18A. Those original wings have about 10 hour TTSN. They are still in the silver in the areas where the leading edge skins were replaced. As I have another airplane this has been a slow project of "parts collection" to get to the point of re-assembly. The fuselage has been completed with all the Alaskan mods. I went with the L21 glass and got a field approval for x'ing the hopper bay. I did find rust from water entering from the rivnuts and a little in the tail section that I attribute to the use of chemicals in AG operations. The guy I bought it from did not use if for AG but never had the airworthiness certificate change to standard. The aircraft is still listed by the FAA as restricted.
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  27. #67
    AirPigz's Avatar
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    Made a lot of progress in the last 2 weeks:
    Flap pulleys and cables installed
    Floorboards complete and installed
    Rudder and brake pedals installed
    Interior panels trimmed and prepped for lightweight leather covering
    Extended baggage nearly completed
    New trim cable, new jackscrew and yoke installed
    Fabricated new rudder and elevator cables
    Flat top stringers back in place
    Various misc projects

    20170324_162706.jpg

    20170324_131146.jpg

    20170325_133257.jpg

    20170323_164203.jpg

    20170322_210433.jpg

    (help! what's the trick to get tall pix to orient properly?)

    Hoping to keep the pace up to finish fuselage work and then get the wings prepped for cover soon as well so I can move on to fabric work.

    Martt
    Warsaw, Indiana
    N9460D
    1959 PA-18A
    Last edited by AirPigz; 03-25-2017 at 11:21 PM.
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  28. #68

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    Why is one hook on the Atlee baggage facing the opposite way? Might make it fun if you ever need to pull it out...

  29. #69
    AirPigz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak49flyer View Post
    Why is one hook on the Atlee baggage facing the opposite way? Might make it fun if you ever need to pull it out...
    That's the way the attach brackets were installed (they are the one part of the kit that's pre-built) and I assumed that's how they were supposed to be, but doing a Google search shows them installed pointing the same direction. I also just checked the associated paperwork and I see that it shows them pointing the same direction too.

    As it turns out, it doesn't change anything ultimately because I simply pivoted the entire box to get one bracket over the tube and then the other, and that same procedure would be used if it ever needs removed.

    Martt

  30. #70
    AirPigz's Avatar
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    The Fuselage of N9460D is about 2 days of work away from being ready for the fabric work to start, but I'm gonna move to the wings now to install the 2,000# gross weight rear spar pieces next. Hopefully I'll be onto all the fabric work by mid April.

    A few days back I carefully cleaned the master brake cylinders which had black paint and decades of ick on them... they cleaned up really nice!

    Brakes 1.jpg

    Brakes 3.jpg

    Brakes 2.jpg

    And here's a pic I found on the internet at the beginning of the project that shows a British registered Super Cub with essentially the same factory paint scheme that the project airplane had on it, and it's what I'll be painting it in once covered. The end goal is to have a pretty clean and very vintage looking flat top Super Cub.

    Super Cub Paint British.jpg

    Martt
    Warsaw, Indiana
    N9460D
    1959 PA-18A
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  31. #71
    Cub junkie's Avatar
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    That's a great paint scheme. Cub Crafters, take notes.

  32. #72
    AirPigz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cub junkie View Post
    That's a great paint scheme. Cub Crafters, take notes.
    I sure like it. After looking at a boatload of Super Cub pix in the last 8 months I haven't seen any that I like as much as that old factory scheme.

    Plus, I'm be adding the flattener to the Stewart Systems EkoPoly paint, and that'll give it a great vintage look. It won't be 'flat', it'll just have a great satin look. I used it on the EkoCrylic on the fuselage tubing and the sheen is very rich and classy looking to me.

    Martt
    Last edited by AirPigz; 04-02-2017 at 05:12 AM.
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  33. #73
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AirPigz View Post
    A few days back I carefully cleaned the master brake cylinders which had black paint and decades of ick on them... they cleaned up really nice!

    Brakes 2.jpg
    Did you disassemble the master cylinders to inspect or replace the rubber bladders? Old ones can fail suddenly without notice. By your description they haven't been apart for years. When they do there is no brake NONE. And if you happen to be in a tight spot at the time you could learn a few new four letter words along with a further emptying of your wallet and a hat from sj.
    N1PA

  34. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Did you disassemble the master cylinders to inspect or replace the rubber bladders? Old ones can fail suddenly without notice. By your description they haven't been apart for years. When they do there is no brake NONE. And if you happen to be in a tight spot at the time you could learn a few new four letter words along with a further emptying of your wallet and a hat from sj.
    I haven't yet, but it's on the list.

    Martt

  35. #75
    Steve's Aircraft (Brian)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AirPigz View Post
    Looking at this photo your front brake pedals are twisted / bent... The two arms are supposed to be parallel... The way they are now you will have less than half your brake travel before the pedal end contacts your floorboards and not give you full brake pressure...

    You need to go from this


    To this


    Inner sleeve the tube when done for more strength.

    Brian.
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  36. #76
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    New O'rings in the parking brake valves as well. I use NAS Allen head screws on the brake cylinder diaphragms, makes it way easier to replace later on down the road when everything is installed and covered.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
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  37. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve's Aircraft (Brian) View Post
    Looking at this photo your front brake pedals are twisted / bent... The two arms are supposed to be parallel... The way they are now you will have less than half your brake travel before the pedal end contacts your floorboards and not give you full brake pressure...
    Thank you for this info. I never considered that the brake pedal tube could/would twist that much over time. Thanx for the pictures too.

    I might have come to that conclusion once I got everything rigged up, but much easier to deal with now : )

    Martt
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  38. #78
    AirPigz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    New O'rings in the parking brake valves as well. I use NAS Allen head screws on the brake cylinder diaphragms, makes it way easier to replace later on down the road when everything is installed and covered.
    Sounds like good advice on both counts... thank you.

    Martt

  39. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by AirPigz View Post

    And here's a pic I found on the internet at the beginning of the project that shows a British registered Super Cub with essentially the same factory paint scheme that the project airplane had on it, and it's what I'll be painting it in once covered. The end goal is to have a pretty clean and very vintage looking flat top Super Cub.

    Super Cub Paint British.jpg

    Martt
    Warsaw, Indiana
    N9460D
    1959 PA-18A
    Yeah, I like that scheme too. I masked this from the Piper drawing available from the Cub Club. I changed it a bit by reducing the size of the registration letters, carrying the stripe past the rego and leaving the scribble off the fin and rudder. This one is a PA-18A too.

    Andrew.
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    Last edited by MainlandCub; 04-03-2017 at 11:16 PM.

  40. #80

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    480
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    And here's a pic of my brake pedal jig. Might give you some ideas.

    Andrew.
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    Thanks Steve Pierce thanked for this post
    Likes WanaBNACub, Steve Pierce liked this post

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