Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 112

Thread: N9460D 'A' model Super Cub

  1. #1
    AirPigz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Warsaw, Indiana
    Posts
    56
    Post Thanks / Like

    N9460D 'A' model Super Cub

    First, I wondered if anyone has some weld-on float fittings available they would like to sell... fuselage will be blasted soon and want to get those on before long.

    This is my first post here and will hopefully cover my 6 month full-time restoration of N9460D, a 1959 PA-18A. I'm In northern Indiana and I'm doing the work for a brother of mine out in California.

    I wondered if I could get some feedback from some members here: current plan is to retain the flat top fuselage that this A model was built with, partly to keep the vintage heritage alive with this airframe, and partly because the aluminum hatch door on the fuselage top is in such great condition.

    I was curious to see how people feel about the flat top fuse and that hatch, which opens right down into the baggage area. Do you like it's look and/or its unique nature... or do you hate everything about it?

    Would appreciate some feedback - thanx!

    Martt Clupper
    AirPigz
    Indiana

    20160909_193624.jpg

    20160909_193643.jpg
    Likes WanaBNACub, pzinck liked this post

  2. #2
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    2,949
    Post Thanks / Like
    I think it's pretty cool if you guys kept it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    AirPigz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Warsaw, Indiana
    Posts
    56
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanx for the feedback Tom

  4. #4
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    5,066
    Post Thanks / Like
    Keep it Ag

  5. #5
    aktango58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    18AA
    Posts
    7,931
    Post Thanks / Like
    Might work well for in-law flights...

    just add ejection seat below!


    In talking to others that have flown the flat tops, they all say the planes are faster, and even a bit lighter. Folks really like the rear seat and flat floor set up.

    The down sides I can see with the hatch would be weight, and if you are in rain and it leaks, your stuff will be wet.
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  6. #6
    cubdriver2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    upstate NY
    Posts
    7,587
    Post Thanks / Like
    Does Javron make float fittings?

    Glenn
    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  7. #7
    cubpilot2's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Anchorage Alaska
    Posts
    454
    Post Thanks / Like
    Atlee Dodge has the float fittings and the STC

    I prefer the A model for all of the reasons mentioned. ( some bias due to currently owning two)

    Inspect the hatch area tubing carefully during your inspection as they are notorious for moisture getting into the tubing through the 30+ riv-nuts under the hatch. The moisture will find its way into the lower aft supports and diagonal bracing of the structure corroding out the inside at the lower 2 inches or so . I usually get rid of the hatch's and replace all of the tubing that had the holes drilled for riv-nuts. I have seen these holes welded shut before but they will leave several ugly "warts" showing through the fabric.

    To eliminate the hatch and the aluminum frame you will need to add bracing for the large "bay". It is a structural modification and field approvals are extremely hard to get. In the days of simple field approvals you would find X bracing or a single diagonal tube.

    The only current option that I have found is to use an old STC originated by Flanagan that replaced the hatch and added Plexiglas for the aft area similar to the L21. I did not want the weight of the glass and was able to get a field approved exception to the STC to only use the structural reinforcement part and cover with fabric. Cub Crafters owns the STC.

    I have pdf copies of the modifications drawings for you to review but you would have to work with CC for the approvals. (I had to make the copies and sent them to Vera at CC as they had lost their originals. )
    Ed

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    nd
    Posts
    2,536
    Post Thanks / Like

  9. #9
    AirPigz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Warsaw, Indiana
    Posts
    56
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanx for the input. I've seen several sources for float fittings, just thought I might find someone with a set and looking to sell them.

    The aluminum hatch and the tubes with rivnuts are in crazy good condition, so the plan had been to install the hatch going forward. The airframe only has 2000 hours TT and the fuselage looks like it's about 5 years old even tho I'm sure it's the original 59 fuse. This great overall condition is another reason we're thinking of sticking with the original configuration... plus, I could see having access to the baggage from above being handy once or twice in the next 20 years : )

  10. #10
    cubpilot2's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Anchorage Alaska
    Posts
    454
    Post Thanks / Like
    The aluminum hatch and the tubes with rivnuts are in crazy good condition, so the plan had been to install the hatch going forward. The airframe only has 2000 hours TT and the fuselage looks like it's about 5 years old even tho I'm sure it's the original 59 fuse. This great overall condition is another reason we're thinking of sticking with the original configuration... plus, I could see having access to the baggage from above being handy once or twice in the next 20 years : )[/QUOTE]

    That's great. It must have never been a sprayer; or has lived in a hangar most of its life.
    I would still do a "punch test" on the lower tubing even though the outside looks good. (near the flap cable pulleys).

    Good luck with the project.
    Ed

  11. #11
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    2,949
    Post Thanks / Like
    http://www.airframesalaska.com/PA-18.../af59078-1.htm

    They fit nice, the atlee fittings require some heat forming

  12. #12
    AirPigz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Warsaw, Indiana
    Posts
    56
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thank you for the input and feedback so far, I appreciate it. I'm sure enjoying the project immensely and I look forward to more input from all the experience found here.

    Here's a pic of the fuselage on a simple wooden rotisserie I built. My workspace is in a loft space in a large hangar... the nose pivot is attached to the outer wall, which makes it all very solid.

    Martt Clupper
    AirPigz
    Indiana

    20161021_151917.jpg

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    western north dakota
    Posts
    9
    Post Thanks / Like
    Martt,
    Leave it ag. You don't see many like that any more.
    My Dad bought a new 1954 A model which they sprayed with,but after the first year they removed the tank behind the seat and replaced it with a 90 gal Sorenson belly tank. They did not like the thought of a crash with that full tank behind your back.
    Are those license stickers on the tail for South Dakota? It may have been close to where I live at one time.
    Piper Pete

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,234
    Post Thanks / Like
    I like it. And can personally verify that it's much easier to load a large, heavy Kelty packframe through the hatch than through the door and over the seat.

    Thanks. cubscout

  15. #15
    AirPigz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Warsaw, Indiana
    Posts
    56
    Post Thanks / Like
    I wondered if anyone has the 4 seat springs (about 20" long) that go in the back of the front seat. I have all the springs for the rear seat, and don't need the ones for the front seat bottom since I'm gonna move the battery there, but I think I'd like to have the springs in the back of that front seat.

    Please let me know if you have some to sell - thanx!

    Btw, just got back from Lock Haven and the 3-day workshop with Clyde Smith (The Cub Doctor) - what a fantastic experience! I maintain a club operated J-3 that will soon need some aft fuselage attention, and then I'm restoring this Super Cub, so the info, help, and encouragement from Clyde was just awesome. I highly recommend Clyde and his Cub Restoration Services operation.

  16. #16
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    2,949
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by AirPigz View Post
    I wondered if anyone has the 4 seat springs (about 20" long) that go in the back of the front seat. I have all the springs for the rear seat, and don't need the ones for the front seat bottom since I'm gonna move the battery there, but I think I'd like to have the springs in the back of that front seat.

    Please let me know if you have some to sell - thanx!

    Btw, just got back from Lock Haven and the 3-day workshop with Clyde Smith (The Cub Doctor) - what a fantastic experience! I maintain a club operated J-3 that will soon need some aft fuselage attention, and then I'm restoring this Super Cub, so the info, help, and encouragement from Clyde was just awesome. I highly recommend Clyde and his Cub Restoration Services operation.
    I got some, I took them out of my seats. Covered the back and bottom of the front seat with fabric.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  17. #17
    AirPigz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Warsaw, Indiana
    Posts
    56
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by RaisedByWolves View Post
    I got some, I took them out of my seats. Covered the back and bottom of the front seat with fabric.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I sent you a message Tom

  18. #18
    tcraft128's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    St. Marys GA
    Posts
    732
    Post Thanks / Like
    I would drool over a fully restored Ag cub with spray system installed. If done correctly, it would win awards.
    Turning money into noise since 1996

    Our Build here

    Likes skipster liked this post

  19. #19

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    corvallis,or
    Posts
    341
    Post Thanks / Like
    Is that a rain guage on top of the sky light?

  20. #20
    AirPigz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Warsaw, Indiana
    Posts
    56
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by tcraft128 View Post
    I would drool over a fully restored Ag cub with spray system installed. If done correctly, it would win awards.
    The plan is to retain much of the basic look that an A model has, but many of the ag oriented details will be removed. I agree tho that a full ag set up would be cool to see.

  21. #21
    AirPigz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Warsaw, Indiana
    Posts
    56
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by PIPER J5.5 View Post
    Is that a rain guage on top of the sky light?
    I rigged up a temporary fuel tank so I could run the engine some before I started the fuselage tear down. Worked great.

  22. #22
    Grant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Woodbury, MN
    Posts
    1,551
    Post Thanks / Like
    Don't fall off of the loft when working up there... That scares me just looking at it....

  23. #23
    AirPigz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Warsaw, Indiana
    Posts
    56
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Don't fall off of the loft when working up there... That scares me just looking at it....
    I admit I'm a little weird... I like having that edge there : )

    Won't be there much longer tho as a full wall will be in place before long.

  24. #24
    AirPigz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Warsaw, Indiana
    Posts
    56
    Post Thanks / Like
    Here's how the fuselage looks currently, essentially ready for sandblasting. I've just got a few ag tabs to remove first, and a few small alterations to get figured out and on hand up before I lower it down and have it blasted.

    Also, a pic of the stainless firewall and flange that I helped Clyde Smith build for this airplane (right there in Lock Haven!) yesterday after the workshop ended in Sunday. I loaded it up and headed back to Indiana right after it was finished.

    20161115_103250.jpg

    20161121_110233.jpg
    Likes Pete Schoeninger liked this post

  25. #25
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    chugiak AK
    Posts
    8,124
    Post Thanks / Like
    best to send it to sand blaster FIRST before investing any time in it...

    very sad when half the tubes turn out to be rusted from inside and blast through at blaster... and you end up having to fix them too, when you should have bailed and bought a new one... been there done that ONCE......

  26. #26
    AirPigz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Warsaw, Indiana
    Posts
    56
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    best to send it to sand blaster FIRST before investing any time in it...

    very sad when half the tubes turn out to be rusted from inside and blast through at blaster... and you end up having to fix them too, when you should have bailed and bought a new one... been there done that ONCE......
    Understood, and I agree, but this fuselage is in amazingly good condition... looks about 15 years old. I haven't found the first spot to be concerned with yet.

  27. #27

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Fargo
    Posts
    407
    Post Thanks / Like
    I'll second what Mike is trying to tell you, I've got a 55A that has 1900 hrs on it and lived in New Mexico all of its life it looked mint when I got it and was is good shape but you will be surprised by the way rust can hide. You are going to sandblast anyway so might as well get it done and find out what you have, easier to fix everything at one time or go new then to repair sandblast then find more to repair. You will find the rivnuts in the hopper lid let water in and rust the tubes from the inside out and won't know until sand punches holes though.

    Chuck ( A-model loonie)

  28. #28
    cubpilot2's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Anchorage Alaska
    Posts
    454
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by AirPigz View Post
    Here's how the fuselage looks currently, essentially ready for sandblasting. I've just got a few ag tabs to remove first, and a few small alterations to get figured out and on hand up before I lower it down and have it blasted.




    R
    Just curious, does it happen to have the "aluminized" coating on the tubing? THis could explain the good condition.
    If so then you could loose it in blasting.
    it will look like orange peel finish on the tubes.
    Ed

  29. #29
    AirPigz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Warsaw, Indiana
    Posts
    56
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by cubpilot2 View Post
    Just curious, does it happen to have the "aluminized" coating on the tubing? THis could explain the good condition.
    If so then you could loose it in blasting.
    it will look like orange peel finish on the tubes.
    No aluminized coating, just a grayish paint with again, essentially no signs of rust.

    Here's a close up pic of the two flap pulleys on left side behind the baggage area... you can see the tubing is in great shape. All of the fuselage looks like this.

    The pulley's and the flap cables have since been removed, cleaned, and inspected - they now literally look like new. The cables had the expected amount of dust and dirt on them, plus some overspray paint from the black put on the inside walls of the baggage area, but after a detailed cleaning, the cable condition is perfect.

    N9460D Flap Pulleys.jpg

    Martt
    N9460D

  30. #30

    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Nor Cal
    Posts
    118
    Post Thanks / Like
    Our A model (9448D) was in good shape also. Just some corrosion under the battery. We retained the flat back but got rid of the hopper door. We just did the rebuild 3 years ago so let me know if I can answer any questions. Brett

  31. #31
    AirPigz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Warsaw, Indiana
    Posts
    56
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Rice farmer View Post
    Our A model (9448D) was in good shape also. Just some corrosion under the battery. We retained the flat back but got rid of the hopper door. We just did the rebuild 3 years ago so let me know if I can answer any questions. Brett
    Thanx for the info Brett, good to know yours was in great shape too. I might have questions : )

    9460D is in Indiana with me for the rebuild, but it will be living in Lake County once it's done, maybe not far from you?

    Martt
    N9460D

  32. #32

    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Nor Cal
    Posts
    118
    Post Thanks / Like
    That will be great to have another A model out here on the Left Coast! ��

  33. #33
    cubpilot2's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Anchorage Alaska
    Posts
    454
    Post Thanks / Like
    N9460D Flap Pulleys.jpg

    Martt
    N9460D[/QUOTE]


    The tube right behind the pulley leaning aft is where we find problems with the internal corrosion along with the two opposite it on the right side. The lower 1 1/2 inches will have a "dead sound" when tapped with a hammer. A light punch test will tell the story. Its common to have them look great on the outside and be ate up inside. These are critical tubes in the structure. Another hidden place for corrrosion is the aft door post tube just above the longeron under the U channel. Dirt and moisture enter from the top of the channel and typically can't escape. If your U channel is sealed at the bottom you should drill the channel to allow moisture to get out. Don't be surprised if you find a pile of rust when you do.

    Looking good so far.
    Good luck
    Ed

  34. #34
    AirPigz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Warsaw, Indiana
    Posts
    56
    Post Thanks / Like
    Here's an update to the PA-18A project I'm working on...

    I'm running behind schedule (of course) for a variety of reasons but I'm picking up steam nicely. I thought I'd show the weld-on float fittings that I went with. They are a fairly new offering from Dakota Cub and they fit extremely well, I'm very happy with them. I just got the fuselage primed and painted (after sand blasting) and its looking really nice.

    20170224_130006.jpg

    20170224_135500.jpg

    The second pic is a better representation of the topcoat color, which is Stewart Systems EkoCrylic in charcoal gray over their EkoPrime. I added their flattener to the topcoat for a really nice satin finish... I think it looks very classy.

    It wasn't the original plan, but I've added several STC mods to the project. Under seat battery, seatbelt fuselage attach, overhead X-brace, adjustable rear seat, oversized baggage door, extended baggage area, and the 2,000# gross weight upgrade.

    I'm beginning to put things back in the fuselage and also have the left wing opened up and doing work there. Planning to accelerate the work and hit it hard in the next couple months.

    Martt Clupper
    Warsaw, Indiana
    N9460D
    Thanks Steve Pierce thanked for this post

  35. #35
    supercub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Let me check my GPS, gee how'd we ever navigate with those sectional things?
    Posts
    557
    Post Thanks / Like
    I wonder if there was ever a working ag cub on floats? or for that matter any working sprayer on floats, other then the Seats the Forest Service is using.
    Likes supersport liked this post

  36. #36
    AirPigz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Warsaw, Indiana
    Posts
    56
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by supercub View Post
    I wonder if there was ever a working ag cub on floats? or for that matter any working sprayer on floats, other then the Seats the Forest Service is using.
    While I've been familiar with Super Cubs in general since I was a teen in the mid 70's, i admit that i didn't even know about the 'A' model until this restoration opportunity came along last Fall. I haven't found very many pix on the net of ag Super Cubs either... I wish there was just to get a better feel for the history. And it would be interesting to know if there was ever any applicating done with one on floats!

  37. #37

    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Nor Cal
    Posts
    118
    Post Thanks / Like
    Ive seen an old video of several A models working in Columbia I think. Maybe on YouTube or Vimeo.

  38. #38
    AirPigz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Warsaw, Indiana
    Posts
    56
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Rice farmer View Post
    Ive seen an old video of several A models working in Columbia I think. Maybe on YouTube or Vimeo.
    I didn't try checking videos... I think I found the one you mentioned. There was a really good view of opening the hatch in the video, that was cool for me to see. Thanx for the video info.

  39. #39

    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Nor Cal
    Posts
    118
    Post Thanks / Like
    The video I was referring to is Exteme Cropdusting 1957. Hopefully you already found it. Brett

  40. #40
    S2D's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    3,532
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by tcraft128 View Post
    I would drool over a fully restored Ag cub with spray system installed. If done correctly, it would win awards.
    I had one a for a while. 52 model I bought from a tobacco sprayer in KY. totally complete as an A model Sprayer. I did one mosquito spray job with it and realized I never wanted to spray in one so I sold it and we stripped everything out. would have been a great candidate for an original restoration.
    Never mind, its not worth it !!!
    Likes AirPigz liked this post

Similar Threads

  1. New Revell Piper Super Cub Model 1/32 scale
    By Bugs66 in forum Cafe Supercub
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-13-2008, 11:35 AM
  2. A Scale Super Cub Model with welded fuselage
    By dave in forum Cafe Supercub
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-06-2005, 05:10 PM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •