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Earth X batteries, ok or not?

Cranked mine at -12 below this morning after a -16 night. First try blade hardly moved on a preheated 50F engine, 5 seconds later same thing. Waited 30 seconds like they say and it spun over like it was a 70F day

Glenn
 
Smith PA12 said:
Cam
what does putting the lights and radios on for 15 seconds do?


Thanks
Rick
Click to expand...

Gets the electrons flowing and warms up the battery internals. They operate much more efficiently when warm and have plenty of battery capacity to “waste” some in the warming process.

I got that method from another short wing guy in AK with an EarthX. Works real good. I’d run it longer if the temps were cooler. Maybe a minute or two.
 
Cam
Thanks, I'm here in northern BC, i've got my plane in a hanger but no heat, -42 C for 10 days. Bought a 800 watt car heater and put in the cowling and it warms to 75 F in 3 or so hours. Battery is under seat and I usually put a heater in the cockpit for an hour to heat it up a bit too! I don't fly in -40 but we go out in -15 or -20 C as a limit.

I noticed it it was a bit slower starting last time it sat in cold weather for a couple weeks, I'm going to try the lights and radios on for a minute or so next time. Thanks again.

Rick
 
Smith PA12 said:
Bought a 800 watt car heater and put in the cowling and it warms to 75 F in 3 or so hours.

Rick
Click to expand...

Remember, it takes time for the steel in the crank and cam to warm up. Even if the temps are 75 in the cowl, just like a roast in the oven, it takes time for the innards to come up to temperature.
 
CamTom12 said:
Gets the electrons flowing and warms up the battery internals. They operate much more efficiently when warm and have plenty of battery capacity to “waste” some in the warming process.

I got that method from another short wing guy in AK with an EarthX. Works real good. I’d run it longer if the temps were cooler. Maybe a minute or two.
Click to expand...

That's probably why my EarthX doesn't seem to notice when I first pump 10 or 15 gallons of fuel up into the mains using my built in transfer pump, in my 40-45 degree hangar. The few amps I draw pumping is just enough to get it warmed up.
 
According to the folks at EarthX, a cold soaked battery ( oat below freezing) sends an under voltage signal to the Battery Power Management to prevent further discharge and thus inability to charge up.
They recommend a moderate draw for 30-60 seconds to “wake up” the battery.

Lou
 
Listen to the EAA webinar. At the end, where they address questions from the audience, I asked about cold start performance. The answer was very interesting. These don't work the same as the batteries we're used to.
 
Worked for an old farmer in and early 70s. One below zero morning I couldn't get the old truck to turn over fast enough to start. He came out with 2 long screw drivers and put the tip of one on the + terminal and one on the - terminal and crossed the blade shafts till they came together with a big spark. He kept them together for about 5 seconds and then closed the hood and told me to start the truck and get to work. Fired right up. He called it boot strapping, and told me it's safer to do with jumper cables because the battery blows up once in awhile

Glenn
 
There are enough things that burn in airplanes already! I don't need to add one more! :)

sj
 
SJ said:
There are enough things that burn in airplanes already! I don't need to add one more! :)

sj
Click to expand...
Banner planes are particularly weight sensitive and I'd love to lose 15-20 pounds, but Im very nervous about a potential fire in a Ceconite and dope covered airplane. I suppose once certified we might look at this differently but for now, it seems like "playing with fire." I think it was Ben Franklin (Maybe someone else, correct me) who said...Be not the first by whom the new is tried, nor the last to set the old aside.
 
It would be interesting to see what the sample size is of people who have or have flown behind these batteries. I have about 300 hrs of experience with one. Is there a way to do a survey or poll on the website?


Sent from my iPad using SuperCub.Org
 
I've got about 900 hours flying behind them in two different planes, both firewall mounted location, and I haven't burst into flames yet. Unless of course I have and I'm actually now in an alternate or parallel universe. Hmmm, that might actually explain a few things.
 
I'd be interested to see what the list of anecdotes looks like after removing all the reports on things that are not Earth-X batteries with the "aircraft" BMS. Every reference to Boeing or laptops is a red herring. References to other Earth-X batteries that do not contain their "redundant" BMS system also are not relevant. Since I continue to see references to other chemistries and batteries without a good BMS, it is clear that a lot of people still don't get it. If you actually understand the facts and still want to see more miles on them first, I get it. ...but I don't understand the continued references to unrelated technologies and products.
 
I've been using Earth-x for 950 hrs with no problems. Low voltage protective circuit works like a charm .
 
cubdriver2 said:
Worked for an old farmer in and early 70s. One below zero morning I couldn't get the old truck to turn over fast enough to start. He came out with 2 long screw drivers and put the tip of one on the + terminal and one on the - terminal and crossed the blade shafts till they came together with a big spark. He kept them together for about 5 seconds and then closed the hood and told me to start the truck and get to work. Fired right up. He called it boot strapping, and told me it's safer to do with jumper cables because the battery blows up once in awhile

Glenn
Click to expand...

I worked on a farm when was 12 and 13, the farmer DID blow up the battery using cresent wrench and get a face full of acid....
 
mike mcs repair said:
I worked on a farm when was 12 and 13, the farmer DID blow up the battery using cresent wrench and get a face full of acid....
Click to expand...
He should have used a lead acid battery instead of one of those new fangled Earth-X lithiums that explode! The lead acids are dead simple and safe! :-D
 
Re: bootstraping
Supposedly turning the headlights on for a few min. will do the same thing. Not as exciting though.
 
Earth X

Steve Pierce said:
If you read AC43.13-2B allows you to install a lead acid battery if certain criteria is met. It specifically calls out not allowing Lithium type batteries. Earth X is working on a certified version. From everything I have researched you are on your own installing an Earth X in a certified aircraft at this point, kinda like those Catto props.
Click to expand...
I've been running one for months, no issues & I wouldn't swap it for anything.
 
Cut and pasted from Glasair forum.


This issue was not experienced on a Glasair aviation aircraft. The following was originally posted on VAF Forums and Mark felt that it may have some value if reposted here. Also, this is in no way a negative review of the EarthX product. Their batteries are excellent in my opinion as is their customer service but my mounting location needed some additional thought.
VAF post:
My RV-10 now has 35 hours on it and I’ve been removing the cowling regularly to check everything out. Up until now everything was checking out fine but now I’ve discovered that my choice of battery location needed a little more thought. Being 14" from the nearest exhaust component, I thought the regular light weight battery box would be sufficient and no additional heat shielding would be needed. I was wrong.
Last week I was caught by some unforecasted weather and spent the afternoon doing short hops between storm bands to get back home and lengthy ground runs to keep some heat going in the cabin in the frigid weather. I suspect this is when the outer case of my EarthX ETX900 battery absorbed more heat than it was designed to handle.
The battery is still performing perfectly but the deformation was concerning so I contacted EarthX for their advice. Reg immediately recognized the damage as being caused by radiated heat. The case areas exposed through the cutouts in the battery box were the only areas affected. They offered to inspect the battery and recase it at no cost even though it was my own set up that caused the problem. I opted to upgrade the battery to the ETX1200 at extra cost now that this model will fit in the original battery box. EarthX was excellent to deal with and Reg and Kathy handled my concerns quickly and efficiently. They have offered outstanding customer service and I’m glad I chose this product.
I opted to install the lightweight battery on the firewall for several reasons. One was to eliminate the need for the long run of 2 AWG wire but mostly to keep the C of G where it needed to be with the Whirlwind prop and lightweight engine accessories. This goes to show that if you stray from the plans make sure you give your planned choices a thorough risk analysis and mitigate accordingly.
The battery is now protected from radiant heat by installing a simple .063 bent aluminum plate to the front and bottom of the battery box. If you opt for a firewall mounted battery you really should consider adding the few extra ounces it takes to either modify the battery box to protect from radiant heat or make a battery box without openings.

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Reply​
 
Colin, With this in mind, if I were installing an EarthX on the engine side of the firewall, I would make provisions for a cold air blast tube from above the engine to the battery box. Perhaps a pick up point in the rear upper baffle.
 
skywagon8a said:
Colin, With this in mind, if I were installing an EarthX on the engine side of the firewall, I would make provisions for a cold air blast tube from above the engine to the battery box. Perhaps a pick up point in the rear upper baffle.
Click to expand...
That's what I did for my firewall mount. I also have a Bluetooth thermometer in the battery box and spent quite a bit of time monitoring it.
 
If I have to monitor my battery temp, I will change my set up.

Enough things to take care of without being concerned of that particular issue.
 
aktango58 said:
If I have to monitor my battery temp, I will change my set up.

Enough things to take care of without being concerned of that particular issue.
Click to expand...

Define "have to". It seems to me that with any experimental setup, one should take care of due diligence. I was testing a configuration that no one had ever done before. ...so I checked. You criticize because I checked?

What I found is that I didn't need to monitor. Had I not looked, I would not know.

What I also found is that the Odyssey PC680 was being used well outside of its temperature range. The maximum temperature for an Earth-X is 140F and mine is kept below that. I made sure of it. The maximum temperature for the Odyssey is 122F.

So, was I safer with the AGM lead-acid battery that no one would ever question? ...or am I safer now with an Earth-X that is being operated with-in specs?

...the things that make you go "Hmmm...."
 
I appreciate the post showing the radiated heat damage. I'm surprised and a little disappointed that Earth X doesn't use a better plastic case. My 180's Odyssey has been on the firewall in a box that leaves the battery partially exposed to heat from the engine and exhaust. Within spec or not I've never had a problem in nearly 20 years of using this setup. Adding a heat shield with an air space between shield and Earth X battery box would be easy enough. Sharing the issue will help others avoid the problem. Thanks for that.
 
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